TV interference when bedroom lights are on!

[SeattleLion]

There is another possible solution: install an amplifier at the antenna. Chances are very good that a weak RF digital signal is involved. Unlike analog signals, a digital receiver will just stop sending analog audio and video to your TV if there is enough noise to prevent the digital error correcting algorithm from working. Digital is either on or off. wdk450's solution is a good start and might cure the problem completely. A potentially easier solution is to get an amplifier that you can locate at the antenna. I haven't researched what's available, but there are almost certainly some out there that inject DC into the coax to the antenna to power the amp. If you amplify at the antenna, the signal that gets down to your TV's D/A (digital to analog) converter will be strong enough to not be affected by RF noise from lights, fans, etc. It looks like the Jack replacement head (http://www.kingcontrols.com/jack/jack_replacement_head.asp ) has a powered amp included.

Another potential noise injection spot is at the Heartland booster (located in the BR in our camper). At that point, there might be a poor connection or exposed signal cable. The coax between the antenna and the booster should keep RF noise out if the shield is continuous. Make sure there is no exposed coax center conductor. None of this may cure the problem, but it represents a very good and inexpensive start. Certainly easier than filtering (with the capacitor) each and every light in the camper.

 

[wdk450]

There is another possible solution: install an amplifier at the antenna. Chances are very good that a weak RF digital signal is involved. Unlike analog signals, a digital receiver will just stop sending analog audio and video to your TV if there is enough noise to prevent the digital error correcting algorithm from working. Digital is either on or off. wdk450's solution is a good start and might cure the problem completely. A potentially easier solution is to get an amplifier that you can locate at the antenna. I haven't researched what's available, but there are almost certainly some out there that inject DC into the coax to the antenna to power the amp. If you amplify at the antenna, the signal that gets down to your TV's D/A (digital to analog) converter will be strong enough to not be affected by RF noise from lights, fans, etc. It looks like the Jack replacement head (http://www.kingcontrols.com/jack/jack_replacement_head.asp ) has a powered amp included.

Another potential noise injection spot is at the Heartland booster (located in the BR in our camper). At that point, there might be a poor connection or exposed signal cable. The coax between the antenna and the booster should keep RF noise out if the shield is continuous. Make sure there is no exposed coax center conductor. None of this may cure the problem, but it represents a very good and inexpensive start. Certainly easier than filtering (with the capacitor) each and every light in the camper.

SeattleLion and ALL:
There already IS an amplifier in the antenna system. The wall plate you have to turn on contains one. I don't think there is an amplifier at the antenna head, and with the short run of coax from the antenna head to the amplifier wallplate, I wouldn't think an amplifier on the antenna head would do much (if the coax is O.K. bandwidth wise). Some earlier omnidirectional RV antennas (disks) had amplifiers in them.

 

[SeattleLion]

SeattleLion and ALL:
There already IS an amplifier in the antenna system. The wall plate you have to turn on contains one. I don't think there is an amplifier at the antenna head, and with the short run of coax from the antenna head to the amplifier wallplate, I wouldn't think an amplifier on the antenna head would do much (if the coax is O.K. bandwidth wise). Some earlier omnidirectional RV antennas (disks) had amplifiers in them.

The coax between the antenna and the amplifier can act as an antenna for interference. The way to reduce noise is to move the amp to the antenna head itself. That's what the Jack does.

 

[wdk450]

The amplifier at the antenna isn't a bad idea, and ideally the Wiengard system would be made this way, although those guys have built a lot of antenna systems.
Still, the classic tenet for fighting Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) is to minimize the interference AT THE SOURCE (LED lights ?). Somebody NEEDS to identify the manufacturer of these lights, and get in contact with them about this. Heartland needs to do its part in chasing this, too. Jim B. put some bugs in their ears!!!

 

[pegmikef]

Our 2013 3260 big horn.... does the same thing. Turn on the bedroom lights and suddenly no picture or sound from the TV? Turn out the bedroom lights and the picture returns? Getting some RFI from the lights somehow? Maybe the power lines run in the same channel that the RF for the antenna does?

I noticed this week while camped in Brady, TX, that the bedroom lights only affected some of the channels while others continued to work. Brady has no local TV broadcast stations, so all the channels I received (four) were somewhat remote. I don't know whether it would be the signal strength or the direction from which the signal was being received affected whether or not the channels continued to work.

 

[danemayer]

Here's an idea. The antenna coax comes down from the roof at the directional antenna knob. Above the knob, there's some coax tucked in where the piece from the roof connects to the piece going to the signal booster. A barrel connector ties the 2 pieces together. I'm wondering if the wires to the lights cross the coax somewhere near there, introducing noise when the lights are powered.

I'd try repositioning the coax, checking the coax connectors, and make sure the connections to the barrel connector are tight.

 

[SeattleLion]

This problem may be related to a specific shipment of the LED lights. When I did the walkthrough of our Bighorn 3160EL, we had the both tv's on using the antenna. All of the lights in the coach were on. Reception (digital) was fine. This may be a problem that just needs to be addressed on a coach-by-coach basis. I did purchase a Jack antenna and will replace the not-so-great Wingard when the dealer finally let's me take our baby home.

 

[danemayer]

Just read the following in an intro to LED lighting:

LEDʼs work differently to incandescent or fluorescent bulbs.

In order to maximize efficiency and diode longevity, each LED requires switching drive circuitry to maintain a constant current. This circuity operates at very high frequency and can cause RF (radio frequency) interference, particular to TV stations. Each LED bulb tends to have different circuitry, so itʼs a very hard thing to predict, so the best advise is to try-before-you-buy.

 

[wdk450]

Dan:
I guess I have "old school" thinking on LED's that they are steady current DC devices. Yes they CAN be supplied with chopped currents (like the IR LEDs in TV remote controls). I guess this could cause the RFI. If they just ran these LED lights on pure DC there would be no problems.

The substitute LED bulbs we use to replace the 1141 incandescent lamps in lighting fixtures have nothing but an array of LED's, and seem to cause no RFI problems.

 

[danemayer]

Found a presentation on LED design. If I'm understanding it, in order to maintain color temperature and keep the light level constant, you need some driver circuitry. The interesting question is whether it's the inherent design of the driver circuitry that might be causing RFI, or if the RFI is created because the driver circuit is reacting to variations in the supplied voltage/current.

My guess is that replacing the LED bulb(s) might get rid of the interference. Could be a particular bulb design. Could be that some bulbs within the design create more interference than others.

An intermediate experiment might be if there are 2 LED bulbs to remove one and see if the problem goes away. Then try putting the first back in and removing the other bulb.

 

[SeattleLion]

Given that this problem seems to only occur in some coaches, it may well be that a batch of fixtures had issues. We had every light in the coach on and both TV's were fine from the antenna. Since the antenna is amplified where it comes in, signal strength shouldn't matter. By the time it gets to distribution, it should be the same level. I wasn't aware that DC LED's generated any RF. AC fixtures have to step down the voltage and rectify it. That is normally done by slicing the AC signal to get to 12V. This could cause interference. I may be wrong, but that is my understanding.

 

[JanAndBill]

It's not just the lights. If you turn on our bedroom lights, the washer/dryer closet light, or the exhaust fan in the bathroom it kills the signal
Could a loose connection be causing low power to the amplifier?

 

[danemayer]

I didn't re-read the whole thread, but I think there are several theories:

• Loose connection somewhere in the antenna wiring. Could be on the roof, at the connector inside the ceiling at the rotating handle, or at the booster. The loose connection would result in a weak signal that could be overpowered by the noise of electrical devices. Tightening all connections, and or putting on new connectors would be the fix.
• Too much electrical noise from a fan or other device where a capacitor fix will quiet it down. But if there are multiple noise sources, this seems unlikely to be the best answer.
• Crosstalk between the electrical wires and the antenna coax, perhaps caused by having the wires too close together or contacting each other in the ceiling. Rearranging the coax above the rotating handle might be something to try.
• Noise from the type of LEDs in use. Could be a particular supplier's LEDs or perhaps off-spec lights. Replacing a bulb and temporarily removing any other bulbs on the circuit might be a way to test this.

If you have multiple devices causing the problem, I'd start by checking/replacing the coax connections.

 

[JohnD]

You might want to check the coax connectors on your antenna and in the roof just below the antenna.

When we first got our trailer we couldn't pull in hardly any stations with the antenna.

My old trailer I could pull in at least 70 TV stations in my side yard . . . my brand new Trail Runner barely pulled in five stations parked in the exact same spot.

The dealership worked on it twice and still never fixed it.

While on a trip to South Dakota last summer, I borrowed a ladder from the campground owners and pulled the coax up out of the roof and replaced the coax connectors . . . and now we have excellent TV reception!

Bad QC from the factory, in my opinion . . .

I used to live in Bristol, Indiana (about 10 miles east of Elkhart) . . . and I know that it wouldn't be hard for them to test the antenna and get lots of over-the-air reception.

We didn't have cable or sat . . . just an antenna up on the roof of the house!

One of the Jayco factories was right across the street from our ranch.

 

[pegmikef]

Hey Dan, while we are at this rally sometime I will demonstrate the problem. It affects all the stations, but only the weaker ones disappear. The stronger ones distort. I personally think it is your last bullet because that would be the most consistent among various rigs.

 

[wdk450]

It's not just the lights. If you turn on our bedroom lights, the washer/dryer closet light, or the exhaust fan in the bathroom it kills the signal
Could a loose connection be causing low power to the amplifier?

The exhaust fan in the bathroom has been a known RFI (Radio Frequency Interference) culprit for a long time. Either install a .001 microfarad 35 volt ceramic capacitor across its power leads as close to the fan motor as you can, or replace the fan with a brushless box fan like those used in computer equipment. These box fans also run on 12 volts DC, and do not have the sparking commutator brushes that make the electrical noise in the cheap vent fan motors.

 

[JanAndBill]

Went through and checked all the coax connections which helped the picture quality, but didn't stop the signal loss when I turn on the lights

 

[JanAndBill]

Since the only lights that affect the picture are the bedroom and the utility/washer-dryer closet, for now I just leave them off when on antennna. I'm leaning toward the option that that the coax may be in close proximity to the wiring for the lights, but getting to the wiring would be a real PITA. Guess I'll live with it or set up the satellite dish, or replace the booster.

 

[sengli]

I went so far as to replace the fan unit in the bathroom, with an upgraded super fan unit. Still the issue persists. Honestly we didnt have the fan on when we lost signals anyway.

 

[pegmikef]

Ok, now I am really confused. I wanted to show Dan the problem while here in Santo and it seems to be intermittent because now my channels work fine using the OTA antenna with the BR lights on, but earlier in the week, the same channels would destort or disappear completely . . . go figure.