Using the RV Generator to power your home

[jbeletti]

We arrived home (sticks and bricks) from our winter RV travels just in time for a winter storm here in Colorado Springs. This particular storm brought snow and real high winds. This combination led to widespread power outages around the area.

Our power went out about 1:30 am, was out for several hours, came back on for a short time, then off, then on etc. This went on for a total of 12 hours, most of which, we were without power.

When the power goes out, one always wonders how long it will last. When it happens in the winter, it’s especially frustrating as one is typically without heat. We don’t have a backup generator for our home.

This got me to thinking about how I could use the RV generator (Cummins-Onan 5500 watts LP) to power critical circuits in the home.

PROs
- Use of a generator that I already have
- Simple to operate, connect etc.
- Less expensive than a whole home generator for a home that is not my forever home

CONs
- Can't power the entire home
- Small fuel tanks and frequent changes during long runtimes

My goals

1. To NOT buy another generator
2. To NOT power the entire home (only loads critical to me)
3. To install a SIMPLE system
4. To install a SAFE system (safe for commercial grid workers and safe for the user)

Here’s how I think I may do it

1. Install an Eaton WD1212 NEMA 14-50R (50 amp RV receptacle) inside the front RV storage compartment, outside of the gen cabinet, on the back wall. This will get wired in parallel with the 2 output legs of the generator from the junction box in the same compartment
2. Have an electrician install a Generac 6335 50-Amp Manual Transfer Switch (or equivalent) on the outside of the house next to the power meter
3. Have an electrician install a Generac 6344 50-Amp Power Inlet Box (or equivalent) on the outside of the house next to the manual transfer switch
4. Connect the RV generator to the Power Inlet Box (PIB) on the house using a Generac 6389 25-Foot 50-Amp Generator Cord (or equivalent)

Materials cost
I'm estimating about $750

Labor Cost
Unsure about the cost of the Electrician for wiring in the transfer switch but I’m estimating about 3 hours labor. I’ll wire in the PIB on the side of the house and the NEMA 14-50R in the RV

Upon commercial grid power loss, in my mind, this is the "use process" I envision

1. Switch off all branch circuit breakers in my home mains panel except the few I deem critical-to-me, that I wish to power via generator (eg: Furnace, Refrigerator, Microwave, Internet gear and some lighting)
2. Connect cord to generator and PIB
3. Start generator
4. Switch Manual Transfer Switch to generator

Enhancement Ideas
- Add a commercial power grid status light (wired from the grid side of the transfer switch) inside the home that is switchable. In this manner, I'll know when commercial power comes back on, can monitor it and decide when I want to switch back to it

Questions

1. Has anyone done this?
2. Are there any fundamental flaws in my logic?
3. Keeping my goals (above) in mind, what would you do differently?

 

[wdk450]

We arrived home (sticks and bricks) from our winter RV travels just in time for a winter storm here in Colorado Springs. This particular storm brought snow and real high winds. This combination led to widespread power outages around the area.

Our power went out about 1:30 am, was out for several hours, came back on for a short time, then off, then on etc. This went on for a total of 12 hours, most of which, we were without power.

When the power goes out, one always wonders how long it will last. When it happens in the winter, it’s especially frustrating as one is typically without heat. We don’t have a backup generator for our home.

This got me to thinking about how I could use the RV generator (Cummins-Onan 5500 watts LP) to power critical circuits in the home.

PROs
- Use of a generator that I already have
- Simple to operate, connect etc.
- Less expensive than a whole home generator for a home that is not my forever home

CONs
- Can't power the entire home
- Small fuel tanks and frequent changes during long runtimes

My goals

1. To NOT buy another generator
2. To NOT power the entire home (only loads critical to me)
3. To install a SIMPLE system
4. To install a SAFE system (safe for commercial grid workers and safe for the user)

Here’s how I think I may do it

1. Install an Eaton WD1212 NEMA 14-50R (50 amp RV receptacle) inside the front RV storage compartment, outside of the gen cabinet, on the back wall. This will get wired in parallel with the 2 output legs of the generator from the junction box in the same compartment
2. Have an electrician install a Generac 6335 50-Amp Manual Transfer Switch (or equivalent) on the outside of the house next to the power meter
3. Have an electrician install a Generac 6344 50-Amp Power Inlet Box (or equivalent) on the outside of the house next to the manual transfer switch
4. Connect the RV generator to the Power Inlet Box (PIB) on the house using a Generac 6389 25-Foot 50-Amp Generator Cord (or equivalent)

Materials cost
I'm estimating about $750

Labor Cost
Unsure about the cost of the Electrician for wiring in the transfer switch but I’m estimating about 3 hours labor. I’ll wire in the PIB on the side of the house and the NEMA 14-50R in the RV

Upon commercial grid power loss, in my mind, this is the "use process" I envision

1. Switch off all branch circuit breakers in my home mains panel except the few I deem critical-to-me, that I wish to power via generator (eg: Furnace, Refrigerator, Microwave, Internet gear and some lighting)
2. Connect cord to generator and PIB
3. Start generator
4. Switch Manual Transfer Switch to generator

Enhancement Ideas
- Add a commercial power grid status light (wired from the grid side of the transfer switch) inside the home that is switchable. In this manner, I'll know when commercial power comes back on, can monitor it and decide when I want to switch back to it

Questions

1. Has anyone done this?
2. Are there any fundamental flaws in my logic?
3. Keeping my goals (above) in mind, what would you do differently?

Jim:
This sounds like a pretty solid, well thought-out plan. Personally if I was doing this, I would start up the generator with the mains off and NO branch loads energized, then add the load branch circuits one-by-one, just to not cause a big all-at-once load on the generator.

 

[RoadJunkie]

Is power loss at your location a frequent occurrence? If so, then your plan makes some sense, but...why not just hustle into the trailer when you loose power?

I don't know if you're running the generators on propane or gas. Some auxiliary power units use natural gas as a form of fuel, which virtually eliminates fuel refilling concerns. Clever concept, and perhaps essential, if you have frequent power loss or can't be without power due to medical or life threatening concerns. But, if you're like me, take your estimates and multiply by Pi, works for both time and money estimating.

 

[jbeletti]

Jim:
This sounds like a pretty solid, well thought-out plan. Personally if I was doing this, I would start up the generator with the mains off and NO branch loads energized, then add the load branch circuits one-by-one, just to not cause a big all-at-once load on the generator.

Great feedback Bill - thank you!

 

[jbeletti]

Is power loss at your location a frequent occurrence? If so, then your plan makes some sense, but...why not just hustle into the trailer when you loose power?

I don't know if you're running the generators on propane or gas. Some auxiliary power units use natural gas as a form of fuel, which virtually eliminates fuel refilling concerns. Clever concept, and perhaps essential, if you have frequent power loss or can't be without power due to medical or life threatening concerns. But, if you're like me, take your estimates and multiply by Pi, works for both time and money estimating.

Len - infrequent from what we understand. But we plan to be here 5 years or so. Hustling into the RV means we need to heat it up to a livable temperature inside and that takes time. Plus the wind stead at 25-30 with gusts at 50-60, so I would not want the slide open in that sort of situation, plus the toppers would be shredded.

The generator is propane. I have 2 ea 30# bottles and 2 ea 20# bottles for backup.

 

[bthornto]

We considered a similar approach, manual transfer between the meter and house and an inlet attached to the manual transfer. We had an electrician bid on the install. Current code in our area requires 4 wires from the meter to the house, we have three. Have the fourth wire run was cost prohibitive. While we are currently not in violation of code because of the age of the house, if an electrician were to touch it, it would have to be brought up to code. The electrician said the idea was sound, and safe. He subtley suggested we do it ourselves or find someone capable that did not require an inspection be done. We have not moved on it yet.

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[DougS]

Jim, I installed a manual transfer switch after Hurricane Charlie came thru and was living with extension cords running throughout the house for 9 days. I have to also say that in the past 13 years, I have only used it once for 5 hours. Not knowing your local codes, this might be something you could do yourself, mine was simple and easy. My circuit breaker boxes are in my garage. I installed the transfer switch right next to it, since the box I have is not waterproof.
I started by deciding which circuits I wanted. Since we are in FL, I choose all ceiling fans, one side of outlets in the kitchen, refrig, tv outlet, and bathroom lights (bathrooms are dark with shutters up).
As for operation, mine came with a 25 foot extension cord to plug into switch from the generator. As for circuit breakers, when you turn TS individual switches on, only those circuits are energized, there is no feed back to city electric no need to touch main circuit breaker.
As for RV built in generator, I have no knowledge, I use portables.

 

[Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn]

Jim they already make Home Gen Transfer switches of many kinds. here's one of many that I found. You could install one of these pre made systems.
Then I'd go the extra step to run a start stop control harness to start and shut off the gen from the house...

https://www.electricgeneratorsdirec.../p13511.html?gclid=CMzH2fag8tICFYlrfgodT9oNDA

 

[HornedToad]

I'm just too low tech... last time we had an extended power outage I fired up the old 6500W Ridgid generator that I hauled around in my TT days and ran extension cords to all the critical loads... Fridge, heater blower & TV!!!


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[TravelTiger]

I know not what you want to hear if you're convinced you want to do this, but it really doesn't take long to get the coach up to comfortable in freezing temps. When we travel for a ski trip, we've often arrived where the temps are at freezing or dropping rapidly. The coach hasn't been heated prior to arrival. It only takes about 15 minutes before it's warmed up sufficiently.


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[dlw930]

I believe I saw a few years ago a unit that had load sensing ability and sent power through the main breaker to circuits on demand. I believe it allowed for a limited number of circuits to be designated critical, then rolled power elsewhere as needed. Wish I could remember the name of the product/manufacturer. CRS!!


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[Crumgater]

Since we use 2 carry-out Honda EU2000's (linked for 4kW total)... we had the transfer switch and sub-panel installed on the house, and when the power goes out we carry the Honda's out to the outside plug, fire them up, then hit the switches to isolate grid power and pull from the generators. We only have a select number of circuits on the sub-panel - trying to get all fridge/freezers online, the furnace fan (gas furnace), and a few lights.

We put the switch in about 6 years ago. Used it zero times in the first 4 years... and about 5 times in the last 2. We're in a suburban neighborhood with underground distribution lines, but we've been seeing more outages >4 hours long in recent years.

The Honda's will only run 7-9 hours on a tank, so we run them during the day as needed, and leave them off overnight.

If the generator is permanently installed in the trailer, and you can get a plug to the generator close enough to the house transfer panel (I wouldn't want to go more than 20ft on an extension cord... it will need to be heavy duty 50A cable), seems like a good solution to me!

 

[jbeletti]

I know not what you want to hear if you're convinced you want to do this, but it really doesn't take long to get the coach up to comfortable in freezing temps. When we travel for a ski trip, we've often arrived where the temps are at freezing or dropping rapidly. The coach hasn't been heated prior to arrival. It only takes about 15 minutes before it's warmed up sufficiently.


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Erika - during this 12 hour outage (with some periods of power being on), we were having very high winds and driving rain, then snow. Blizzard like with gusts to 50 mph. Not the right time to be in an RV. Now had it been summer with an outage and no high winds - different story

 

[jbeletti]

Since we use 2 carry-out Honda EU2000's (linked for 4kW total)... we had the transfer switch and sub-panel installed on the house, and when the power goes out we carry the Honda's out to the outside plug, fire them up, then hit the switches to isolate grid power and pull from the generators. We only have a select number of circuits on the sub-panel - trying to get all fridge/freezers online, the furnace fan (gas furnace), and a few lights.

We put the switch in about 6 years ago. Used it zero times in the first 4 years... and about 5 times in the last 2. We're in a suburban neighborhood with underground distribution lines, but we've been seeing more outages >4 hours long in recent years.

The Honda's will only run 7-9 hours on a tank, so we run them during the day as needed, and leave them off overnight.

If the generator is permanently installed in the trailer, and you can get a plug to the generator close enough to the house transfer panel (I wouldn't want to go more than 20ft on an extension cord... it will need to be heavy duty 50A cable), seems like a good solution to me!

Dave - thanks for your experienced feedback. My RV is literally, right next to the house. I'd use a 50 amp heavy gauge cable that is made just for this application.

Now, will I ever do this project? Hard to say. I really wanted to hear if anyone thought it was a viable solution. I'm thinking it is.

 

[TravelTiger]

Erika - during this 12 hour outage (with some periods of power being on), we were having very high winds and driving rain, then snow. Blizzard like with gusts to 50 mph. Not the right time to be in an RV. Now had it been summer with an outage and no high winds - different story

Aww, Jim, where's your sense of adventure? We've done that on ski trips in our coach in Durango and Breckenridge, I know!

But I see your point.

We've actually left our rig and staying in a hotel tonight due to the moderate risk of severe weather: 50mph+ winds, large hail and possible tornados overnight tonight. Pray our baby suffers no ill!


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[Bones]

Jim,
I like your idea. A generator is a generator is a generator no matter what that generator is normally used for. What you would do is have your house wired and prepped normally for a generator input of 50 amps. An electrician should be able to accomplish this. Next all you need to do is separate the generator outputs into a transfer switch. So your switch will have an input from the generator and two separate outputs. One will go to the RV transfer switch existing and the other one will go to your house. If you want to keep things hidden you can have a small dongle with a 50 amp connector hooked to it. Like this one. Then you would have the equivalent from your house. The only thing you'll need to remember to do is switch the generator transfer switch back to your RV when you are using the RV.

Dave

 

[dewwood]

This is not an approved method but it works well. I made up a short cord with a plug on one end that plugs into the generator and a plug that fits my welder plug (50A 240) on the other. In a power outage i flip the main breaker to isolate from the incoming power and feed back through the panel to run what I need. Like I said it is not an approved method but it works.

 

[porthole]

2 thoughts

1) Your RV generator is not a 220 generator. Unless Onan has changed the design, it is two 110 separate circuits, same phase.

2) If you have a HE water heater it may not run with the generator going though the power management panel (that floating ground thing). When we tried that for Hurricane Irene I had to use the bypass mode on the Progressive EMS


We did the whole house genny and transfer switch sub panel after 13.5 days of no power due to Sandy.

I did all the work myself and got the gen and switch at below contractor cost from a local supply house. Was on the floor and they wanted to make room. Right time - right price - right friends.

I spent $5600, not including a HF tent garage I use for the winter (snow).

That $5600 did not include replacing the electric range with a gas range - and the new matching micro and dishwasher (all Bosch). One of the shortcomings using the portable gen was not being able to cook on the electric range

I figure I added about $12000 in house value. At the time the post Sandy gen installs around here were going for $15,000 - $20,000+

I would not do it again. Permits alone were $300 plus I had to landscape the genny for another $300.

If I was to do it again I would get one of the newer standby gen hookups.
Transfer switch installs at the meter pan. Plug in your extension cord and it disconnects the house from the grid.
This would supply the whole house so you just need to turn off the breakers you shouldn't be powering.

Here is just one example

Genny would be one of the fuel injected inverter Honda's (EU7000IS).

My whole house gen is a 15K (on natural gas at sea level) and compared to others it is rated as quiet, it is anything but quiet. Although it is not harsh, from the opposite corner of our lot there is no doubt you can hear a genny running.

You can buy the Hondas natural gas or propane ready, just connect to a tap off your house supply.

Or just use gasoline. I have a 14 gallon tote that I use to transfer gas when we use our Honda 3000IS (boon docking etc)

- - - Updated - - -

Jim,
I like your idea. A generator is a generator is a generator no matter what that generator is normally used for.

Not quite Dave

 

[porthole]

As far as back feeding panels - you all do what you want.

The first structure fire we responded to after Sandy was a house, with fire blowing out the second floor bedroom windows.
I was first due with our ladder and got to see what the home owner did before he started disconnecting stuff.

The homeowner who was an "electrical engineer", had backfed the panel.

We literally saw dozens of wacky methods people used to get power. When you get desperate ........
Even our fire station was hazardous the way things were jury rigged to get some power in the station.

One, more note on using the portables during an emergency.

The first serious EMS call our department responded to was an individual who used a 'make do' gen set up.
Sitting in an open air breezeway the homeowner did not prepare for a door being opened by the wind.

The deceased was one of our recently retired fire fighter's. And to add to the the event, the shift and station that responded to the call was his shift - his station.

 

[jbeletti]

Jim,
I like your idea. A generator is a generator is a generator no matter what that generator is normally used for. What you would do is have your house wired and prepped normally for a generator input of 50 amps. An electrician should be able to accomplish this. Next all you need to do is separate the generator outputs into a transfer switch. So your switch will have an input from the generator and two separate outputs. One will go to the RV transfer switch existing and the other one will go to your house. If you want to keep things hidden you can have a small dongle with a 50 amp connector hooked to it. Like this one. Then you would have the equivalent from your house. The only thing you'll need to remember to do is switch the generator transfer switch back to your RV when you are using the RV.

Dave

Hi Dave - you must be taking a break from ripping up and replacing your home sub-floor!

There's a bunch of stuff already mounted on, penetrating through and set up against that side of the home/garage, so having a manual transfer switch a PIB (power inlet box) on the outside it no biggie here.

The manual transfer switch would be 50-amp rated to switch the generator into the service panel. I'd have to look into it further to ensure it's good to handle a 200-amp house service when in normal mode. This may be a miss on my part, yet I think my plan in general is solid. I'd have an electrician handle the installation of the transfer switch and PIB.