Water not flowing to kitchen sink when off city water

[StrongJava]

Good morning,

We are in Port Townsend, WA, where it is 28 degrees. Last night, I disconnected the city water (but left the light turned on at the UDC to help keep that warm. The indicator in our coach says the fresh water tank is 1/3 full, and when I run water in the bathroom, the pump comes on and all is well. However, there is zero flow to the kitchen sink and the pump does not turn on when I operate the faucet. I installed this faucet when we got the 5er in 2014, and we haven't had any problems with it before. In fact, it worked last night on city water and when I had both city water and the pump turned on. This morning, it does nothing.

When it warms up enough I'll get more water in the freshwater tank.

My understanding was the pressure switch is at the water pump, and any faucet should trigger the pump when opened.

Any thoughts on what is going on?

Thanks.

Tim

 

[BouseBill]

May be the water line to the kitchen is frozen, but not the bath? No hot water either in the kitchen?

 

[StrongJava]

Correct, there is no hot or cold water to the kitchen. I had the same thought (and it remains possible) but I would have been surprised if the hot water line had frozen. True, I turned the hot water heater off over night (I prob should have just switched to the gas heater) but hot water flows to bathroom.

Now that it is light out, I'll go explore underneath and look for signs of water as it gets warming. Forecast is up to 39 today. Heat wave!

 

[For20hunter]

Tim,

What model of Bighorn do you have? Is the sink in a slide? BouseBill is right, that a connection or hose running to the kitchen has to be frozen. I put a drop light in the basement behind my UDC and nothing ever freezes. We are currently staying along the Hood Canal near Hoodsport Washington and it got down to 26 last night and we had no issues whatsoever.

Using the Gas furnace is a must below freezing temps, as that is what helps keep the UDC area warm.

Rod

 

[StrongJava]

Thank you both for chiming in.

I have a Bighorn 3670RL, and the kitchen sink is in the island not part of the slide out. The coach furnace definitely ran through the night but I had turned the 120V water heater off. I also had left the 12V light in the UDC compartment on. I can pick up a drop light to put in behind the UDC. I guess the question in my mind there though is why would the kitchen lines freeze and not the bathroom lines?

 

[danemayer]

Thank you both for chiming in.

I have a Bighorn 3670RL, and the kitchen sink is in the island not part of the slide out. The coach furnace definitely ran through the night but I had turned the 120V water heater off. I also had left the 12V light in the UDC compartment on. I can pick up a drop light to put in behind the UDC. I guess the question in my mind there though is why would the kitchen lines freeze and not the bathroom lines?

Kitchen lines freeze first. The bathroom lines are usually located above the furnace. The kitchen lines run through the underbelly and are exposed to lower temps.

If overnight temps were only 28 (F), I'm surprised anything froze. Maybe it got colder than you think.

 

[travelin2]

Thank you both for chiming in.

I have a Bighorn 3670RL, and the kitchen sink is in the island not part of the slide out. The coach furnace definitely ran through the night but I had turned the 120V water heater off. I also had left the 12V light in the UDC compartment on. I can pick up a drop light to put in behind the UDC. I guess the question in my mind there though is why would the kitchen lines freeze and not the bathroom lines?

While you have basement wall down installing a drop light add a wireless thermometer to the mix. Place the sending unit deep in the underbelly as cold air pools in the low spots. Then you can monitor the basement temperature.


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[TravelTiger]

We had kitchen faucet lines freeze one winter trip, but it was much colder. It's possible the lines run along the frame at some point, and touching the cold metal can also cause issues.


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[Oregon_Camper]

....but I had turned the 120V water heater off.

Question...why do you turn the hot water heater off?

 

[StrongJava]

Update:

My son and I spent a fair amount of time today tracing lines. Unfortunately, I didn't see the post about putting a thermometer in the underbelly, but have confirmed what someone said regarding the kitchen lines running underneath. Mine are on the starboard side and then cut across to the island where the sink is located. I'm disappointed that Heartland would not have those in insulation. We got the drop light in close to the low point drain, which might help as that would be near where the water lines would be touching the metal frame.

We also opened the the low point drains so they each having a slow drip. I'm hoping that between that and the light, the line won't freeze again. I did find wetness in my underbelly both up forward and in the middle. I'm not sure where that is coming from. And I also discovered that some of the connections around the water pump are leaking so I'll have to find the time (when we get back South I think!) have drips.

To answer the question about the water heater, I turned off the electric one because our shore power is 30A, and we were trying to run two space heaters. I should have turned on the gas hot water heater; I have done that now.

And other suggestions are of course welcome.

Thanks again! I really like this group.

Tim

p.s., thermometer temps last night were said to be 28, with a "Feels Like" temp of 20 or less. The forecast isn't quite as cold tonight, but it should still be cold enough to test this approach.

 

[danemayer]

Low point drains can be a source of blockage. The valve is exposed to outside air, as is the water above the valve. As that water freezes, the ice can wick up, above the coroplast, into the tee, blocking the line.

If you plan to routinely camp in sub-freezing temps, you should consider putting heat tape on the exposed portion or tuck it up above the coroplast.

 

[travelin2]

Update:


p.s., thermometer temps last night were said to be 28, with a "Feels Like" temp of 20 or less. The forecast isn't quite as cold tonight, but it should still be cold enough to test this approach.

Ah, that says there was some wind which too probably means you had cold air infiltration that enhanced the freezing conditions.
The frame is far from "airtight".


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[StrongJava]

That makes total sense, Dan. I did buy some heat tape today but haven't installed it. Should I be worried about laying in on the Coraplast (and thermal blanket) as it might get too hot for those materials? Or do you think a smaller segment of the heat tape but just around the low point drains would be better?

Tim

 

[danemayer]

That makes total sense, Dan. I did buy some heat tape today but haven't installed it. Should I be worried about laying in on the Coraplast (and thermal blanket) as it might get too hot for those materials? Or do you think a smaller segment of the heat tape but just around the low point drains would be better?

Tim

I don't think you'll have a problem with the coroplast, but if you want to be cautious, use electrical tape to secure the heat tape to the pex line and put pipe insulation around the heat tape and pex line.

 

[TravelTiger]

Update:

My son and I spent a fair amount of time today tracing lines. Unfortunately, I didn't see the post about putting a thermometer in the underbelly, but have confirmed what someone said regarding the kitchen lines running underneath. Mine are on the starboard side and then cut across to the island where the sink is located. I'm disappointed that Heartland would not have those in insulation. We got the drop light in close to the low point drain, which might help as that would be near where the water lines would be touching the metal frame.

We also opened the the low point drains so they each having a slow drip. I'm hoping that between that and the light, the line won't freeze again. I did find wetness in my underbelly both up forward and in the middle. I'm not sure where that is coming from. And I also discovered that some of the connections around the water pump are leaking so I'll have to find the time (when we get back South I think!) have drips.

To answer the question about the water heater, I turned off the electric one because our shore power is 30A, and we were trying to run two space heaters. I should have turned on the gas hot water heater; I have done that now.

And other suggestions are of course welcome.

Thanks again! I really like this group.

Tim

p.s., thermometer temps last night were said to be 28, with a "Feels Like" temp of 20 or less. The forecast isn't quite as cold tonight, but it should still be cold enough to test this approach.

Ah! Yes if you have low point drains those can freeze and keep water from getting to the kitchen. That rang a bell! We had low point drains at the time we had freezing at the kitchen. We have since removed them. We still have the fresh tank drain, but we've modified it to tuck it up into the underbelly.

The water you found in the underbelly could also be from driving in the rain. Water can get in to the belly especially around the wheels and the front if not sealed well.




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[Lynn1130]

This applies to low temps even when hooked up.

https://heartlandowners.org/showthr...g-Weather-Conditions?highlight=freezing+temps

 

[StrongJava]

Great post! I leave the light on in the UDC and we leave the propane heat on all the time, but set down lower during the night.

The actions we took yesterday seemed to have worked. I'm still considering insulating the lines running back to the kitchen, at least when it does come time to take off the Coraplast; a bit tough to get to right now. But, I will tell you that when I stuck my hand in between the Coraplast and the under side of the floor, it felt reasonably warm. So, I'm really thinking now the problem was at the low point drains (on my rig, they are on the opposite side of the UDC). To not leave them cracked open dripping, I'd have to wrap them with heat tape or something else. I may still do this.

Happy New Year!

Tim