Where's the Quality Control at the Factory

[crmfghtr]

Caissel my friend... YOU ARE A BREATH OF FRESH AIR !

I was really starting to wonder if it was just me... Thank You for some intelligent, logical and sane thinking... Thank you for comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges...

I also wonder how many posters know that the public in general can read our post on Google WITHOUT being a forum member - a Google search is all one needs to do. This includes the competition’s RV salesmen who print these bashing posts and keeps a 3 ring binder to show customers who are comparing ? As an example, Google - Where’s the quality control at the factory - just that phrase and see what you get.

I wonder if they know that bashing HL may bash their wallet at trade in time... ?

I wonder if they think at all or if they are Warren Buffett in disguise because they must be wealthy beyond belief...

I wonder "IF" it was their money that bought their RV or someone else’s, like inheritance or Lotto winnings ?

I wonder if they know how well off they have it or if they are just chronic complainers who whine about everything ?

Finally, I wonder "IF" they've ever had real problems or if the silver spoon tarnished their thinking to the point they are totally devoid of intelligence ? Just wondering...

I'm not pointing a finger - I'm just wondering, that's all

Like I said, there are three kinds of people... First of all Sir / Mad'am, For the record, I was not born with a spoon in my mouth, I earned every dollar I spent on my coach. When I spend the kind of money HL or any other manufacturer demands for their product I EXPECT it to perform as required. Maybe you are one of the few have not had a single problem with your coach. If so that is fantastic. Apparently others like me have had problems. So do we just sit around "wondering" like chicken little what we could do about it, or do we voice our opinion so the the manufacturer takes note and corrects the problem. I don't really take for gospel what some salesman says in order to sell their brand. The fact is, all of on this forum decided to purchase a HL product. I'm sure you didn't run down to the dealer because you are a HL groupee and plop down your money and leave with a gaze in your eyes. I'll bet you did your homework for weeks or maybe even months and determined dollar for dollar HL was the best. I know I did. If HL has learned anything from this post or any other post in these forums is maybe they need to enforce their QC otherwise it may come back to haunt them.

 

[RollingHome]

Robert, this is Tom, when and if, you have a problem with your NEW RV you don't come into a forum the public can read on Google and start bashing ALL HL products - that just ain't too smart is it ? Instead you call customer service. You used to own a buisiness didn't you ? Would you like it if a customer with a problem wrote a letter to the editor of your town newspaper and started bashing your business before you were given a chance to correct the problem ? This forum is HL's town news paper.

The place to start is to call the oem of the thing you are having trouble with. If that doesn't work call HL customer service. If that doesn't work fix it your self. I did not point my finger at you - you did. The point is, start with kindness and intelligence... don't come out swinging until the end, then fight let H... Being in law enforcement, I would have thought you dealt with enough people that fought first and thought second to know this... Finally I ask you, you have problems with your RV, 1 so how are dealing with these and 2 will it really matter 10 or 20 years from now ? The only time it may matter is when you go to trade it in or sell it and all the bashing made it worthless... just a thought.

 

[Marge]

Wow, we are people who have worked out butts off all of our lives and scrimped and save every penny we have all by ourselves.

This new truck and new trailer are our retirement rewards to ourselves and consider ourselves very lucky to have been able to buy our new rigs.
But we can still expect some pride in workmanship when we spend our hard earned money.

 

[noobee]

Robert, this is Tom, when and if, you have a problem with your NEW RV you don't come into a forum the public can read on Google and start bashing ALL HL products - that just ain't too smart is it ? Instead you call customer service. You used to own a buisiness didn't you ? Would you like it if a customer with a problem wrote a letter to the editor of your town newspaper and started bashing your business before you were given a chance to correct the problem ? This forum is HL's town news paper.

The place to start is to call the oem of the thing you are having trouble with. If that doesn't work call HL customer service. If that doesn't work fix it your self. I did not point my finger at you - you did. The point is, start with kindness and intelligence... don't come out swinging until the end, then fight let H... Being in law enforcement, I would have thought you dealt with enough people that fought first and thought second to know this... Finally I ask you, you have problems with your RV, 1 so how are dealing with these and 2 will it really matter 10 or 20 years from now ? The only time it may matter is when you go to trade it in or sell it and all the bashing made it worthless... just a thought.

Tom, I consider you to be 'way off base'! Robert & others, like me, have a right to vent regarding HL's poor/lack of QC. We spend lot of $$$$ & should receive VALUE for our $$$$, not the sloppiness that HL provides. I hope that discussing these issues on forum's like this will at sometime open HL's management's eyes to recognize that they have some serious QUALITY problems.

 

[beardedone]

I fully understand the frustration that owners have when QC issues arise. I have had a lot of problems with my Landmark from major suspension issues to lots of water pipes leaking, two grey tanks that both leak etc. I have also had to pay a lot of money for repairs, particularly the suspension issue. I went up on the roof three days ago to install one of those wind turbines on the vent stack from the black holding tank. When I took the vent cap off I was just infuriated. The butcher who installed the pipe must have used a chainsaw to cut the hole in the roof and then the roof material was cut and a great big flap of fabric left hanging over the hole so that only about 20 percent air flow was allowed. To cap it off the vent itself was offset by more than half so I couldn't install the mod anyway because it wouldn't fit. Such a simple thing to do but done by a butcher! I checked another vent and it was done the same way. The amount of labour to do a poor job (in this case) was probably the same as to do a good job. So some QC issues shouldn't cost any more to do it right the first time.

 

[dave10a]

I hardly think telling the truth about ones experience is "bashing." At least it should not be taken that way. It should be taken as a means to make things better. When I worked and lived on submarines I never had any problem a telling Electric Boat where and when they screwed up. If fact they appreciated direct feedback- especially the truth. After all our lives and their livelihood was at stake. I would hope Heartland looks at this forum the same way as a means to find out what is going on and how their product is being perceived by the customer. No one learns anything when people are silent.

 

[n2snow2]

I agree I was told by someone on this forum that my trailer was price point trailer for around $50000 so I guess I didn't spend a lot of money so don't expect a lot for your money I guess.....

 

[danemayer]

Telling the truth about one's experience is not bashing. It's sharing. Your information may help someone else, or someone reading it may be able to help you.

When a post describes one's experience with angry statements, readers might consider that to be venting. There's a range of opinions about how much venting is reasonable, but anyone reading this thread can easily see that a fair amount of venting goes on. And your post still may help someone else, or get you help.

But when your story turns into an attempt to punish, to hurt, to slap down, to scare others away, it's bashing. When the same angry, punishing note is posted repeatedly, it's bashing. It's obviously no longer in the category of sharing or venting. It's an attempt to be destructive to satisfy angry feelings. Posts like that are not helpful to anyone; not even to the person who's posting.

Feel free to share. Vent a bit if needed. Don't bash.

 

[kakampers]

Well said, Dan...

 

[JohnDar]

Well said, Dan...

I wholeheartedly agree with that, too.

 

[dave10a]

Maybe we should have a bashing review board as a clearing house for problems. However, I think people are smart enough to determine that for their selves without any attempt to silence descent.

 

[VideoGuy3]

My wife and I purchased a new Big Horn in 2/2012 with the idea of traveling the Southwest and enjoying retirement. We have had mixed results with this endeavor. As discussed in this post, Quality Control at Heartland is an issue. We have not made a trip that has been problem free. Most of our problems have been like chapped lips and paper cuts. Luckily we haven't had unique experiences as this forum has provided the information we needed to repair our problems. This experience should have been a fun and relaxing time in our life. We feel a little cheated, however we are still optmistic that things will improve. For years many companies had a quality control policy that was called "zero defects". I don't see this used any more, maybe it's worth considering.

 

[chasdvorak]

Ditto.... Well stated Dan. I've had my share of problems for a BH that was built in September 2008. At the Gillette rally, my neighbor had a BH that was built on the exact same date and he did not experience any similar problems. Luck of the draw, QC issue or poor dealer prep.....probably a combination of all.

That stated, HL Customer Service has been outstanding....at the factory and at the rallies. I made a few mistakes too which included not spending enough time during the dealer inspection and not getting enough shake down miles on the rig. HL Customer Service far surpassed my expectations and I am very satisfied with my purchase. At this point, it is up to me to maintain the coach and it's value. HL Customer Service and this forum have saved my a lot of heart ache and $$$.

Chuck

 

[evolvingpowercat]

> Water flow issues when boondocking - too many 90s.

I agree there are engineering solutions - hopefully engineers at Heartland read these posts for ideas and maybe they will try some of them we are throwing out there when prototyping future models. It would be nice to get some feedback that Heartland is hearing this input, I am NOT asking for any promises or plans, just a post from Owner Interests saying that it is worth our time to provide constructive criticism and suggestions. Otherwise I will find better ways to spend my time.

 

[jbeletti]

> Water flow issues when boondocking - too many 90s.

I agree there are engineering solutions - hopefully engineers at Heartland read these posts for ideas and maybe they will try some of them we are throwing out there when prototyping future models. It would be nice to get some feedback that Heartland is hearing this input, I am NOT asking for any promises or plans, just a post from Owner Interests saying that it is worth our time to provide constructive criticism and suggestions. Otherwise I will find better ways to spend my time.

Randy,

Heartland is listening. This thread was flagged up to production, engineering, sales and the president.

To everyone,

Thank you for sharing your concerns and your stories. Let's continue to keep the discussion constructive so we can keep,this thread open.

 

[TedS]

Jim, thank you. It would be good for us to hear some factory responses to our thoughts.

 

[TeJay]

It's good to know that this information is getting to those that can do something about it. We are, as the word states consumers. A manufacturing company is building a product for us. We see and use first hand the results of the manufacturing process. We do not for a moment pretend to know all the ins and outs or complexities of the TT manufacturing business. Although some of us have worked in industries like these and do know a few things. Since we are the end users of this product we are the ones who have to deal with issues when they do not operate as designed.

Our usual course of action is to contact a dealer. They are independent and the manufacturers don't have much control over their dealers. If we are not happy with our dealer we can contact customer service at the manufacturer. I did that and was told of another dealer which was only 10 miles away instead of 125. They fixed my problem and were very nice about it. Warranty repairs are just that. I does not matter who fixes it they get paid by the manufacturer. As others have done I have fixed many items on our camper because I knew I could and it was easier than taking it back to a dealer. If I could not fix it then it went to the dealer.

When a unit is brought in and is under warranty the manufacturer is contacted so the work can be authorized. At that point the manufacturer knows that a problem exists. They keep records and should notice patterns and then as needed make the necessary production changes. It does cost them $$$$ to pay for warranty work so they should be concerned about reducing those items that can be corrected. If it's poor workmanship on the assembly line that should also be addressed. There are many items on your automobile that have been used because it improves reliability and reduces warranty repairs. That's anther subject.

As consumers we have three avenues open to us for repairs; the dealer, the manufacturer and this forum. All three avenues should be used and if the information is shared properly it should result in a better product with less cost to the manufacturer and ,"Happy Campers.". No company can stay in business over the long term by ignoring their dealers and consumers.

This has been a great, informative thread.

TeJay

 

[BarneyFife]

Randy,

Heartland is listening. This thread was flagged up to production, engineering, sales and the president.

To everyone,

Thank you for sharing your concerns and your stories. Let's continue to keep the discussion constructive so we can keep,this thread open.

I will say this. I respect a company who will do something such as a forum like this. Now that "social media" has become so huge in our lives, company's failures and praises have such a larger impact because they reach far more people. Its not just "word of mouth" on the street or at the campgrounds.

But on that same note. If a company does appear to be open to comments, complaints, or suggestions and they don't appear to do much about it, it can have an even further negative impact in the eyes of the customer.

Jim, you know my situation. And I'm "trying" to be more objective in my posts and I do appreciate this forum to be able to do so. But if any company (not just Heartland) out there touts their customer service but doesn't back it up with action, it draws more fire and criticism than if they'd just stayed out of it all. If they do act on issues and problems of their customers and make a conscious effort to remedy those issues, it gains customers for life.

Too many companies out there just want to make the sale and if they disappoint a customer with a poor product, they just try to go get another customer rather than do what it takes to fix the issue and keep that present customer. Look at cell phone companies these days. Customer loyalty has dropped to a new low. I've read it costs the cell phone companies as much as $400 to gain a new customer with advertising and incentives. But keeping present customers is a small fraction of that same cost. But what do I know? I'm just one of those customers.

 

[BarneyFife]

.... This experience should have been a fun and relaxing time in our life. We feel a little cheated, however we are still optmistic that things will improve.... .

That right there speaks volumes more than anything here. Well put VideoGuy. Hope things do go better from here on. Blow the horn if y'all swing through NC anytime soon.

 

[kb0zke]

Thank you, Dan and Jim. Any RV, from the simplest pop-up to a multi-million-dollar motor home, is a complex machine. Yes, there are many things that manufacturers (or maybe we should call them assemblers) can do to improve the product, but the fact is that they are ALL made by humans, and humans make mistakes. If someone thinks that buying an expensive RV will guarantee a perfect machine they have another think coming. Earlier this year I read about someone who bought a new motor home, to the tune of more than $500,000. On the first trip out all three air conditioners quit. He was told to take it back to the dealer for warranty repair.

The issue really is not whether there are some problems, small or large, with a new RV. Rather, the issue is how those problems are resolved. Heartland seems to be at least as good as, if not better than, most companies. One idea that I've seen in other places is that when the coach moves from one station to another the foreman or QA person "buys" it from the previous station. If it isn't as it should be at that point it doesn't move on.

We bought our mpg in December, 2010, and attended our first-ever Rally at the factory in 2011. While on the tour, someone in my group asked about why certain outlets seemed solid and others seemed to not to be attached very well. I pointed out, on the coach that was right in front of us, why the problem existed and what should be done. I'm not an engineer but I've done quite a bit of building. The factory bigwhig who was leading our tour was quite surprised that a school librarian knew, not only what the problem was, but also how to fix it. I have no idea whether my suggestion was implemented or not. The fix would only have cost some drafting time to change the plans, not any additional manufacturing time.