Where's the Quality Control at the Factory

[crmfghtr]

I Recently purchased a 2013 Landmark Key Largo. After looking at it in the driveway, I decided to take it out for the weekend to try out everything and enjoy my hard earned money. I took it to a local campground with full hookups. I plugged in my rig into my Surge protector and then into the campground. The surge protector said the park's power was good. After about 6 hours I noticed the ref. was still running on LP. I then noticed I had to AC power. The ranger was kind enough to check the breakers on their end. Everything in the park was fine. The problem was with my rig. I checked all the fuses and breakers and none were tripped or blown. I then removed the Back wall in the Basement to see if the fuse on the inverter was blown. After looking around, I discovered the wood frame which holds the tool box was angled into the inverter blocking the fan grill. I also noticed the plug was hanging almost all the way out as well as the vacum cleaner plug. I plugged both in and wa la the power was restored to AC mode. I also noticed the vacum cleaner was not in its mounting cradle it was just pushed into the opening. The Gen Prep relay box was mounted crooked causing the back wall to bow from the relay box pusing into the wall. I decided when I got home I would fix these issues. When I got home, I removed the back wall and discovered the loose wood frame was smacking the inverter cord and causing it to dislodge from the plug. I spent all day, Removing the frame and adjusting it so 1. the inverter fan could breathe air. 2. the wood frame was not hitting the power cord. 3. The relay box was not pushing into the back wall. 4. The vacum Cleaner was placed into the mounting cradle. 5. I also noticed when I ran the water system on Tank the water lines were shaking and hitting the other lines resonating into the coach. I purchased some 1/2" inside foam hose insulation and placed it over the water lines to keep them from rattling. Since I have repaired all of this, I decided to install a whole coach water filtration system and regulator.
I should not have had to deal with this type of repair, and spend 1 out of 2 days tracking down why I had no power. Where is the quality control at the factory? This is not a cheap camping trailer I purchased, Now I'm worried what else I'm going to have to deal with. I purchased this rig because I thought Hartland took pride in their workmanship and I was impressed by all the satisfied customers on this forum.

 

[ihsolutions]

Fit and finish in the area behind the basement wall is an area of concern for many on this forum. Sorry you had some early troubles. Did you do a thorough PDI when you bought the unit? Many times, a lot of these issues can be corrected at that time, before you take delivery. That is not to say that this type of workmanship is excusable, but at least you wouldn't have spent YOUR time fixing it. I will say that for the most part these are very well made units (structurally) so once you get past a few of these sloppy build issues, I think you'll be very pleased with your rig. It took me a while, but I, too, got all the bugs out. Now we are VERY happy campers! I hope you are able to reach this point soon, as well.

 

[danemayer]

Robert,

I agree that Heartland should take a look behind the basement wall and think about making changes on the assembly line. I don't have any experience with the challenges of moving these rigs through the assembly process quickly, but to my untrained eyes it just doesn't look like it would take much additional time or money to make big improvements in this area. Normally the mess doesn't affect the operation, but visually it's distressing when you open the basement wall. It's the manufacturing equivalent of sweeping dirt under the rug.

On your loss of AC power I'm confused. I don't understand why plugging in the cord for the power converter would restore 110V to your coach. The power converter changes 110V to 12V. When unplugged, the battery will run down and you'll start having problems with the 12V systems including lights, slide operation, landing gear, and eventually the refrigerator and even the A/C (thermostat control). Unplugged, it should have no effect on the 110V supply to the coach.

Do you have Generator Prep? That would include a transfer switch (that changes the electrical power routing between shore and generator). If it was stuck, you might have unknowingly unstuck it while working on nearby things. If so, that might require additional investigation. Some people have found loose connections inside the transfer box that over time arc causing failures.

If you do open the transfer box, be sure to disconnect from shore power first.

 

[TeJay]

There are some good points regarding QC. However these QC issues should not be items that are discovered on a PDI but at the factory. It is part of QC. This is a no brainer. Quality Control is just that. It requires individuals to take pride in their work and do the job correctly. If it take another person to check for quality work then so be it. But somebody should be doing the job. If they are not then Heartland will suffer and loose its reputation if it has not already done so. These are factory issues and factory reps who monitor these forums should be taking this message back to those locations. I have not been to any of the factories but this is my guess. Some units do have good QC and others do not. I've gathered this from certain units that seem to have more trouble than others. What's the problem??? If I'm correct then those locations that do have concerns should do something. Just my thoughts. If I'm wrong then we should start seeing less QC issues reported on these forums.
TeJay

 

[RollingHome]

Robert, sorry you had all these (and maybe more) problems. Many of us “satisfied customers”/owners went through the same thing to get where we are today - HAPPY with our rigs. Heartland (HL) takes pride in their workmanship... unfortunately "SOME" workers in the Elkhart labor force do not. Let me explain, HL and the 7 other major RV manufacturers in Elkhart all go through the same thing. The Elkhart RV manufacturing cycle goes as follows, RV makers :<o></o>
a). Take orders at shows and during the camping season. <o></o>
b). Create a sales glut.<o></o>
c). Hire a “right size” (temps) work force to reduce this glut.<o></o>
c). Make the units roll out the door - QUICKLY ! <o></o>
All 8 makers give bonuses when quotas are exceeded. After the glut is gone, most RV assembly workers are laid off and it’s back into the labor pool for the next cycle. All the RV makers in Elkhart employ a satisfactory (“right sized”) labor force as needs dictate – they do their best to maintain the cream of the crop workers year round . When these needs swell, every RV maker in Elkhart has a revolving Human Resource (personnel) door. Their labor force expands and contracts every year as needs dictate.<o></o>
The human resources that built your coach this year will probably will be at another RV manufacturer’s plant next year doing the same quality work they did in your RV. One of the major factors that dictate cost in an RV, is the quality (hence cost) of the sub components supplied by sub component manufacturers i.e. Lippert, MoRRyde, Dometic, etc. You can expect to pay thousands more for this quality difference. But it’s still the same folks installing the components. Heartland would go out of business if they do not do what their competition has proven to be the best business model to manufacture RV’s. Many RV makers have gone out of business when they tried other ways. Competition in business is cruel, mean and ruthless and only the strong survive. Caveat emptor is Latin for "Let the buyer beware”. It sounds like your coach is still under warranty, I would strongly suggest you get to know it up close and personal. In the end, I hope you are “HAPPY” with your RV and HL as many of us are now.<o></o>

 

[Dave49]

In my opinion QC does need to be addressed, but it's not only Heartland but many other manufuactures. I have had other brands and have the same issues discussed here also. It's always a rats nest back behind them panels and that does need to be addressed. For myself I have had very little problems with my Bighorn from day 1. Been one of the lucky ones there. Very few models except for the custom made units have great quality control. Problem lies in the form of cost effective. We as consumers keep demanding less cost but want more for our money. Then you have each manufacturer wanting to get you as a customer and the way they do that is cut cost which in turn cuts quality. Now thats now to excuse bad workmanship. They are being paid to do a good job and they should. Quality control is one more person at the end of the assembly line that could find the problems and fix them before they get to us and the dealer. If it goes to us and we have to take it back to the dealer then the manufacturer has to pay the dealer to do the repairs. To me that is not cost effective as they are paying up $100.00 per hr. for the dealer to repair what they could have fixed if quality control found the problem in the first place. They could be paying a lot less for a QC worker at the end of the line and in turn by doing so make customers much more happy.

So I say do we have a complaint here? We sure as heck do. The cost is enormous to us and it matters.

I know Heartland monitors this forum, so we will see if they listen to us or just want the all mighty dollar and a number of no return customers.

Dave

 

[noobee]

Any QUALITY oriented company would recognize that RE-WORK is more costly than 'doing it right the first time'!
Complaints about HL's lack of quality control has been on going for many many years. Yet, nothing appears to have change!

 

[jmgratz]

Any QUALITY oriented company would recognize that RE-WORK is more costly than 'doing it right the first time'!
Complaints about HL's lack of quality control has been on going for many many years. Yet, nothing appears to have change!

I believe they have changed as they recently added a QC unit at the factory. Call Customer Service and ask to speak to someone from that unit if you have issues.

 

[TeJay]

Rollinghome, Dave49,
Very informative and well put. This still does not excuse the fact that a QC guy used during the busy and slack time can go a long ways to improve cost effectiveness and for sure better customer satisfaction. I think in the good ol U.S.A. it's called CAPITALISM and COMPETITION. Keep your competitive edge or begin to loose business to those that do. All industries struggle with quality workers or the lack of and seasonal stuff is also a part of some industries.

TeJay

 

[crmfghtr]

Overall, I'm very happy with my descision to purchase a Key Largo. Just like some of you said, If the factory QC person would have inspected the coach area's I discussed, they would have discovered less than quality workmanship. An ounce of Prevention is worth a pound of Cure Is my theory. Dave49 you are right how much happier would customers be if they didn't have to take their coach to the dealer for repairs because the factory didn't exercise QC. Image how much more Heartland could pass the savings down to the customer, because they checked their work. ihsolutions, during the PDI, none of these issues poped up, as you do not normally remove walls and check behind them, due to the fact while towing the vibration was causing the cord to dislodge from its plug. Actually I'm glad I discovered this early on due to the fact the inverter fan had no way of getting or exiting air it would have caused premature failure. I'm also glad I know it is fixed to my satisfaction. other than the fact of giving blood for the numerous sharp screws hanging into some of the work area's I now know what the coach is made of. I hope Hartland is taking notes and can address this for future Heartland owners.

 

[frano]

As great as the Heartland Forum is, it does very little for a company that is seriously interested in producing a quality product. Quality issues can best be documented/analyzed by having personel contact between the manufacturer and their customer base (not just some that are computer based). Otherwise, Heartland is missing out on knowing what left the factory broken, what the dealer fixed, how many times the dealer took to fix the problem, and how many problems have been fixed by the customer to save a trip to the dealer, etc. When I scan the forum, I see similiar defects on the more expensive units that I've experienced on my little Edge--a 3rd year production unit that should have been defect free upon delivery, and was not. Any quality program can only be enhanced by the manufacturer knowing what was shipped wrong from the factory and the kind of dealer support the customer is receiving. Toyota's questionaires must be working because they're producing defect free products with the same American workforce as Heartland.

 

[danemayer]

I think there may be some lumping together of 2 different concepts here. Functional quality control ensures that everything works as designed. Elegant design is completely different. The mess behind the basement wall usually doesn't reflect on how well everything works - although in this case, placement of the converter and loose plugs are probably not as the engineer intended. But most of the mess is because there's obviously no attention to elegant design in this "hidden" area. Same thing in the underbelly.

I'd encourage Heartland to revisit this thinking. The challenge is to "clean up" the mess without adding cost. With some thought, it might even be possible to make it look a lot better, cut down on problems, and even reduce cost.

What do I mean by "cut down on problems"? Many people have noted that the placement of the power converter is often in the path of water leaks from the bathroom, causing secondary damage to the converter. Relocating the converter might be a solution. A 5-cent plastic deflector mounted as a lean-to roof over it might be another. I'm not trying to specify an answer - just trying to encourage new thinking.

Maybe improvements can be made, maybe not. But you can be sure it won't be done if no one tries.

 

[jcarnevale]

Robert, there is no excuse for this lack of quality control and it will catch up with Heartland eventually if it continues. I have been to many factories, some more than once including Heartland. I believe Heartland used to be the best value for the money as recently as three or four years ago but they have become to large. With 18 or 19 different models and hundreds of part-time employees, with floor plans and features changing every month quality control is definitely a problem. Even Heartlands own sales and marketing personnel cannot keep up with what's happening on the assembly line at any given moment . I believe this was predicted by some of you after the acquisition by Thor. As previously noted above quality control issues are not new in the RV business but we as consumers should not let that be the norm. I believe the principle of form follows function is absent at heartland. Other manufacturers are plumbing their basements much more efficiently than Hartland. In the end it is us the consumer that will dictate the fate of Heartland RV.

 

[jmgratz]

Here is a novel idea...how about making up some wiring harnesses that are tied and dressed cut to the proper length with a little extra. I know I have pulled out many many many feet of extra wire which I know costs quite a few dollars over the long run. Specific wiring harnesses could be made up for different models and then the wiring dude would just have to pull the correct harness and connect the ends. Just thinking...

 

[FordMan1966]

I would have to agree about the Quality Control on my 2013 Landmark Grand Canyon by Heartland. However I can not voice any negative comments on here because I and You will get a PM from some Modirator for saying negative things about these campers. So all is well on my end after 4 trips back to the dealer in 4 months.

 

[SouthernNights]

I would have to agree about the Quality Control on my 2013 Landmark Grand Canyon by Heartland. However I can not voice any negative comments on here because I and You will get a PM from some Modirator for saying negative things about these campers. So all is well on my end after 4 trips back to the dealer in 4 months.

In my opinion you are dead wrong about that. As long as you keep the discussion civil and only relate your opinions or experiences you will never be criticized by a moderator.

After three years on this forum, two years of being a chapter leader for Heartland, working the Owner's Club table in Tampa once and attending many rallies that were not part of the South Carolina' s rally agenda you would think I would be a HL cheerleader but I am not. I have offered constructive criticism on this forum and directly to HL and have never been approached by a moderator to cease and desist.

Criticize HL in a fair manner if you must, but I think the moderators on this forum do an outstanding job of being tolerant and lenient.

 

[TeJay]

Jcarneval,

Two years ago before we got our NT we did not have any pictures of the unit that we were going to order. I eventually called HL and spoke with the guy who at that time was in charge of putting pictures etc on-line. He sent us some updated pictures of the 24-RBS. He also told me that HL had over 250 different units that he was dealing with. X number of lines and different floor plans for each line. That's a lot to keep up with. When you talk about making wiring harnesses for each unit it becomes cost prohibitive. I have worked on production lines before and the QC guy was always there to make sure all was done correctly. I don't care how many different units are being made construction is construction. Fabrics change but they are still fabrics. Cabinet wood changes but it is still wood. Fixtures are different and they change but they are basically the same. QC does not change. Get the job done correctly. I know it's easier said than done. As far as telling the factory that's fine but some buy from a dealer that is hundreds of miles away so we do it ourselves. Sometimes we take it to the dealer and they don't fix it correctly so we do it ourselves. Often time we do contact HL and then they know about it and can deal with the lack of QC if they get enough complaints.

TeJay

 

[crmfghtr]

I forgot to mention, When I pulled into the campground I immediately noticed another Landmark (full body paint) off to my right. After I got all setupand had the back wall panel removed, the gentelman came over to see my coach. He told me he had a 2012 Rushmore which has a similar floorplan as the key largo with the exception of the rear entertainment center. He told me his Inverter had quit working about 2 weeks earlier and he was waiting to get his rig into the dealer for repair. I showed him the frame up against the inverter in mine and told him he may want to check his. Sure enough, his inverter was also up against the wood frame. I told him that may be why his inverter stopped working due to the fact it may have gotten hot because no air could enter or exit. All that being said, He was wishing he would have opted for the Key Largo floor plan. I also encouraged him to join the Owner's Club for all the great people and Rally's. Hopefully he will take my advice.

 

[westxsrt10]

crmfghtr.....
I too agree the QC can be improved slightly. A small improvement in QC will go a long way to making many happy customers.

As far AC/refrig issues I think you have it fixed. The refig. needs the converter to work (charge the battery) for the refig. to work on 120 vac or propane. Our converter failed on a trip and lost the refig. I now carry a 25 amp battery charger.

Fordman1966....
Don't get discouraged by a hand slap, I've had mine slapped once or twice will little long term effect.

 

[TedS]

We were told at the Gillette Rally that Heartland was putting a product audit program in place. They will pull a trailer from the line and go through it in detail. Do not know the time frame of when the program will be in place.