Our water is froze up this morning. We are 20 some odd miles from San Antonio. We have a new Big Country 3450Ts. Our first payment is due tommorrow. This is ridiculous. I have read on this site about Heartland owners of all models having the water line freeze from the tank to the pump, as this is the case with ours. We had the furnance running at 70 all night, not that would matter as there is is virtually no heat getting back to the frozen area. This morning it was 10 outside, I stuck a digital thermometer down under the counter where the pipes and drain go down underneath and it said 27.4 at 7 this morning. I turned the heat up to 75 and there is still no improvement. This pretty much shows that there is not enough heat getting to the right place. Why do all the Heartland owners have to take the bottum loose, crawl under there and insulate this pipe, or try to change some ducting to try to get this problem fixed? When we bought this Heartland product, it showed in the brochures that it is tested down to zero. With our old rv we never had a cold weather problem. I guess I will investigate Texas's lemon law out.
Ray LeTourneau
Senior Member - Past Moderator
I had read in an earlier post that the zero degree test was a test for the efficiency of the heating systems ability to maintain a comfortable interior temperature. There are very few units on the market that will tolerate those temperatures without some help from owners. Those that will sell for big buckaroos. We had a similar situation occur with our Bighorn. I didn't expect the line to have a slight kink in it but it did. That's where it froze. The kink was minor enough to allow water to flow but small enough to freeze at 10 degrees. I had it fixed by an authorized service facility and got on with it. I certainly didn't consider my rig a lemon. What I think would work very well would be to plumb the fresh water lines to & from the tank in a pvc or pex material using braided poly for very short connections to allow for flex & movement.
Bob&Patty
Founders of SoCal Chapter
I think we are missing the bigger picture here. Your coach is not a house with plumbing buried in the ground. Even houses have water lines that freeze when the temps drop below freezing. If you were to read Steve's thread about his lines freezing........its was -11*. If you read a farther down on his thread he also stated that when he returned home the water line to his home was frozen also. Yes there are ways to help with this, but it may require you to do some extra things in you coach if you are where it gets below freezing. My 2cts. Bob
htneighbors
Unbelievably Blessed!
htneighbors
Unbelievably Blessed!
Like Bob said - The underground lines to homes freeze, too. The owner of the land where I'm parked has several houses in this little town. One of his renters continually "forgets" to leave their water running. Their drain line from the apartment to the main froze - now nothing will drain. Gonna be a while til spring!
Bob&Patty
Founders of SoCal Chapter
I have given this a little thought. If the people at Heartland do read this. Then a simple solution to this would be to run the hose from the F/W tank though the floor between the 2 layers of plywood. There is blocking that seperates the 2 layers for the heater duct to run through. They could install the hose with "P" clamps near the heater duct with enough extra hanging out so it could be connected to the pump and tank. It might take a little extra time in assembly. But the end result would be worth it. There would not be any need to put the vent hose or F/W fill hose it there. I also dont think that a heater duct could get hot enough to damage the water hose if the hose was secured 4-5" away from the duct work. Problem solved, no more frozen water hose from the tank to the pump. If I could have found away to do this after the fact I would have. My 5cts this time. Inflation ya know. Bob
They may not be 4 season but they are really misleading folks with the zero rating. I expect more for my money. These upper end units are not cheap and shouldn't be built that way. They can do better and I bet they will if they stay in business for very many more years. Any camper that sells for over 50k sure shouldn't freeze up in the teens like many have. Going to try mine out in the next couple of weeks and if it freezes I am not going to be happy at all. Not talking about below zero but certainly below 32. Engineers and design folks need to look around and improve where they can. Earn there money and make happier campers out of all of us.
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Still kind of hot
It sounds like very few of us camp when it is cold outside, with Heartland anyway. I have had 5, 5th wheels now and this is the first that there is no way to solve the problem without tearing into a new unit. For people that don't seem to see the problem, under the bedroom, behind where the water pump is, I had a temperature of 54 degrees, therefore installing a electric heater there wouldn't have improved anything, that area is plenty warm. With the furnace running steadily, I only had a temperature of 27 back where the water line runs up to the pump. I don't know what other precautions I could have taken. Before the cold front came, I insulated the outside water tank drain line as best as I could. I filled our inside tank up and unhooked and drained the outside hose. What else could I do. All the manufacture would have to do would be to put a decent size heating vent, down into the belly, and or insulate the water pipe coming from the water tank into the pump. There has been many posts about a water line lying right next to the steel frame where the freeze occurs. If the belly were opened up as it is at the factory, this would be a small issue to resolve. As for the comment on this not being a 4 season camper, I understand this. Where I am from in South Dakota, this product would not be a 2 season camper if it couldn't withstand a calm night at 10 degrees. What I have done to try and solve this problem, as I am away from home and in a rv park, where I thought it would be ridiculous to be seen tearing the bottum off of a 3 week old camper. I took the living room vent that is close to the water tank out and installed a vent pipe with a (T) opening under it with a flexible hose on it, to try and direct some heat up to the freezing area. I then bought a vent that you can close, so I can shut the vent off and that would force all the heat that normally would go out into the living room, would now be forced to go down into the belly. I still have another vent in the living room that would heat the living room. Will see how this works. We work camp about 9 months of a year and depend on the products we buy. We also work in a rv campground, where we deal with all kinds of people and rv problems. We are not rv owner newbies, but boy are we dissappointed.
It sounds like very few of us camp when it is cold outside, with Heartland anyway. I have had 5, 5th wheels now and this is the first that there is no way to solve the problem without tearing into a new unit. For people that don't seem to see the problem, under the bedroom, behind where the water pump is, I had a temperature of 54 degrees, therefore installing a electric heater there wouldn't have improved anything, that area is plenty warm. With the furnace running steadily, I only had a temperature of 27 back where the water line runs up to the pump. I don't know what other precautions I could have taken. Before the cold front came, I insulated the outside water tank drain line as best as I could. I filled our inside tank up and unhooked and drained the outside hose. What else could I do. All the manufacture would have to do would be to put a decent size heating vent, down into the belly, and or insulate the water pipe coming from the water tank into the pump. There has been many posts about a water line lying right next to the steel frame where the freeze occurs. If the belly were opened up as it is at the factory, this would be a small issue to resolve. As for the comment on this not being a 4 season camper, I understand this. Where I am from in South Dakota, this product would not be a 2 season camper if it couldn't withstand a calm night at 10 degrees. What I have done to try and solve this problem, as I am away from home and in a rv park, where I thought it would be ridiculous to be seen tearing the bottum off of a 3 week old camper. I took the living room vent that is close to the water tank out and installed a vent pipe with a (T) opening under it with a flexible hose on it, to try and direct some heat up to the freezing area. I then bought a vent that you can close, so I can shut the vent off and that would force all the heat that normally would go out into the living room, would now be forced to go down into the belly. I still have another vent in the living room that would heat the living room. Will see how this works. We work camp about 9 months of a year and depend on the products we buy. We also work in a rv campground, where we deal with all kinds of people and rv problems. We are not rv owner
newbies, but boy are we dissappointed.
caissiel
Senior Member
MY BC is miles ahead of the former trailer because I can access all the lines and do something about the heating of theses lines. If I could afford $100,000 for a trailer and $100,000 for the TV to pull it I would have bought one. These units are great for what we use them for. All the mobile homes here are skirted with heated water system areas. If not heated these areas will freeze on the first below freezing day. So if we think that these units can survive the -11F temperatures were are surely barking the wrong tree.
airedale
Active Member
someone on here may be able to help this village idiot....sure hope so.......first of all, i dont expect this unit to be 4 seasons in my world......to me that is hugely unrealistic......that said....mid october, my unit came off the factory floor and headed out to the dealer....winterized....dealer dewinterized it as per my instructions for traveling home and to properly pdi it.....life is good..........got home and before i parked it for 3 months, went about winterizing it.......dont know where i went wrong......heartland has done wonders to ease the winterizing process over the last couple of years........anyway...-8c when i leave home.....-17c in merritt on the way through.......park in mt vernon and begin the dewinterizing process.....yeah..rite......
fresh water tank does'nt seem to want to take any water.......hot water tank will not fill....even tried hooking to city water......turn furnace up and wait for an hour with everything crossed.......water starts to move....into tank, into heater......life is good....by the way heartland, kinda miss that pump switch in the lower compartment.......anyway...things seem to be working very well and to make sure this problem does'nt occur next year...i am all ears....what did i miss....what more can i do ....tnks any and all for suggestions........
fresh water tank does'nt seem to want to take any water.......hot water tank will not fill....even tried hooking to city water......turn furnace up and wait for an hour with everything crossed.......water starts to move....into tank, into heater......life is good....by the way heartland, kinda miss that pump switch in the lower compartment.......anyway...things seem to be working very well and to make sure this problem does'nt occur next year...i am all ears....what did i miss....what more can i do ....tnks any and all for suggestions........
Gzopete
Happy Member
Still haven't seen it?
Some on here have said that they didn't expect their unit to be a 4 season coach.
Seems to me that more then one person has thought that they were?
I have looked over the Heartland site and still haven't seen a place that says they are not a 4 season coach.
I don't want to beat this horse to death, but it seems to me that if I missed it and others have missed it. There should be some clarification on this subject? Why should we have to go thru this? If it was right on the front of the site or in some other form that these units were not made for cold weather then I wouldn't of tried in the first place. No one has explain why we need a heated underbelly if they are not made for cold weather. If the unit doesn't go into cold weather I really don't think the water and everything under the coach is going to complain that its cold and they need a jacket.
Some on here have said that they didn't expect their unit to be a 4 season coach.
Seems to me that more then one person has thought that they were?
I have looked over the Heartland site and still haven't seen a place that says they are not a 4 season coach.
I don't want to beat this horse to death, but it seems to me that if I missed it and others have missed it. There should be some clarification on this subject? Why should we have to go thru this? If it was right on the front of the site or in some other form that these units were not made for cold weather then I wouldn't of tried in the first place. No one has explain why we need a heated underbelly if they are not made for cold weather. If the unit doesn't go into cold weather I really don't think the water and everything under the coach is going to complain that its cold and they need a jacket.
airedale
Active Member
i've had enough rv's to know that the next rv that comes out with a full winter package that works like an alberta house....will be the first.....recreational vehicle is the word.....will keep you comfortable till just below 00000000......while i agree that the manufactures push the envelope a little.......cuuummon folks.....get a grip......look at the 'R' factors.....take off one of the walls in your storage compartment and tell me you like what you see........now, go out and buy a better house for $40000.......gimme a break.....the term is recreational vehicle.......
Some on here have said that they didn't expect their unit to be a 4 season coach.
Seems to me that more then one person has thought that they were?
I have looked over the Heartland site and still haven't seen a place that says they are not a 4 season coach.
I don't want to beat this horse to death, but it seems to me that if I missed it and others have missed it. There should be some clarification on this subject? Why should we have to go thru this? If it was right on the front of the site or in some other form that these units were not made for cold weather then I wouldn't of tried in the first place. No one has explain why we need a heated underbelly if they are not made for cold weather. If the unit doesn't go into cold weather I really don't think the water and everything under the coach is going to complain that its cold and they need a jacket.
Did you see anywhere on the Heartland web site where it said they were a 4 season coach?
Bob&Patty
Founders of SoCal Chapter
I just downloaded the owner manual..........and believe it or not. It does not state anywhere that it is a "4 SEASON " coach. I also could not find anything on the Heartland web site that stated that either. Steve ol' buddy...it was -11*.....just what did you expect. Bob
Gzopete
Happy Member
I guess you haven't seen my other posts?
I guess I am not the only one that was fooled by what they didn't ask!
Yes the Zero degree test which isn't explained that they don't use water during the test. Which they put a stickier on the coach which has a Snowflake and the sun. Who doesn't use water in there coach. Still waiting for someone to stand up and be counted. Second on the website in the video entitled "Your Laminated World" They use a symbol that shows the four seasons. Last time I checked Snowflakes are in the cold and they live in weather under 32 degrees.
I have learned that my Cyclone isn't made like the other units with a Laminated System what does that mean I have no clue.
Delaine and Lindy
Well-known member
4 Seasons ?????????????
There are very few 5th wheel manufactors that will say their 5th wheel are 4 seasons, however there is a few who will say their 5th wheels are for full timing. But with that said I don't think a 5th wheel water system should freeze up when the furnace is working properly and your using the on-board water system, and will it the least maintanin 68 degrees.
Every 5th wheel we have owned had a heated basement, and a heated docking station. Again make sure you have a heater hose running into the behind the docking system. Stay warm... GBY....
P.S. I know of a person who winters in Alaska and is a full timer. He did take some additional winterizing products. Such as more insulation, for me that will never happen. We are going West next winter.
There are very few 5th wheel manufactors that will say their 5th wheel are 4 seasons, however there is a few who will say their 5th wheels are for full timing. But with that said I don't think a 5th wheel water system should freeze up when the furnace is working properly and your using the on-board water system, and will it the least maintanin 68 degrees.
Every 5th wheel we have owned had a heated basement, and a heated docking station. Again make sure you have a heater hose running into the behind the docking system. Stay warm... GBY....
P.S. I know of a person who winters in Alaska and is a full timer. He did take some additional winterizing products. Such as more insulation, for me that will never happen. We are going West next winter.
SilverRhino
Well-known member
In my opinion.........This issue of "Full Time" & "Four Season" use has gotten kind of ridiculous. All the manufacturers know, that a great part of their current and potential sales will come from people that will full time and some will have to push into that "fourth season".
I would think that a simple approach would be to offer packages that would truly meet the needs of these folks. They could be offered as add on options. The manufacturers could offer these and still stay with their statements of "not meant for full time use".
It seems to me, that many of the issues could be solved easily while the coaches were being constructed.
Unfortunately.....we are not in a position where we can use our BC more than a few weeks out of the year, but I sympathize with those that are living in them and experiencing problems.
Just my observations.
Travel Safe!
I would think that a simple approach would be to offer packages that would truly meet the needs of these folks. They could be offered as add on options. The manufacturers could offer these and still stay with their statements of "not meant for full time use".
It seems to me, that many of the issues could be solved easily while the coaches were being constructed.
Unfortunately.....we are not in a position where we can use our BC more than a few weeks out of the year, but I sympathize with those that are living in them and experiencing problems.
Just my observations.
Travel Safe!
Gzopete
Happy Member
Thats all I am talking about! If the heat is on it shouldn't freeze!!!!
