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View Full Version : GVWR on Cyclone 3912



beasleyrl
11-07-2009, 04:51 PM
I have a 2009 3912. Over the last 6 months, I have broken 2 leaf springs on the front axle (1 on each side). After the 2nd spring broke, I had the rig weighed on the way home. The trailer weight came in at just under 17,500 pounds. Of the 17.5K, the PIN weight was about 3,700 pounds. Total weight on the 3 trailer axles was 13,800 pounds. Since this was on the return segment of our trip, there was very little water in the fresh tanks (even though they were only about 1/3 full on the way down) and the holding tanks were empty.

The trailer is rated as follows:
each axle is rated for 6,000 pounds (3 times)
The VIN sticker on the trailer indicates the GVWR is 20,400 pounds.

We have had some discussions with Heartland and our dealer and from the initial inquiries, Heartland recommended having our dealer contact Lippert. The dealer did that.

Today, we dropped the trailer at the dealer and as part of the discussions with the service manager, he indicated Lippert thought the trailer was over weighted based on my information. Of course, he went on to say that it was possible that the water was full on the way out and that the additional 1000 pounds this would add would put me over the 18K rating on the trailer. 18K -- where did that come from? The GVWR is 20,400 per the sticker!

At first, he didn't believe me. He said all of the 3 axle trailers were rated for 18K (6000x3=18K). So, we walked to the trailer and I showed him the sticker. He was shocked. Since he had already opened the discussions with Lippert, they had checked the VIN on the frame with their records. Per that, they confirmed they shipped Heartland an 18K frame.

Obviously, the dealer now has to work with both Heartland and Lippert to figure out what is going on but I'm curious if anyone else has had this problem or has any thoughts on it? I would think Lippert would know what the rig should be rated for since they built it. I will also note I looked at the new Cyclones on the lot and they now indicate that the GVWR is 18K. Did Heartland over rate this rig and then adjust it in later years?

One other interesting thing. We don't carry and real "toys". Our garage is a bedroom for our kids and only holds our bicycles and 2 dog cages. If this is more than 200-300 pounds I would be surprised. That said, the 17500 weight per the scales was shocking! And, by the way, we didn't even have the bicycles on board when this spring broke. Something doesn't add up.

RubiconAg
11-15-2009, 11:31 PM
Wow, this is interesting,....If you rig weighed in close the 18k max without any toys, what would happen if you loaded some four wheelers and/or dirt bikes! Scary, sounds like Heartland needs to weigh in on this one.

jimtoo
11-16-2009, 12:12 AM
Did anybody think about pin weight???? The axles are going to support a max of 18,000#,,, but the pin weight needs to be added in for the total...2200--2300#for the pin makes a gross of 20200# plus.
The gross is a total of all the weights of the axles and pin.

Sounds to me like you need to find a dealer or service rep that knows what he is doing. I don't think this one does if he does not know that the pin weight needs to be included.

beasleyrl
11-16-2009, 06:25 PM
Yes - I asked about that. They indicated that it was still 18K (per Lippert) as noted on the new Cyclones stickers. And yes, I actually went out and looked at some on the lot. They do in fact say 18K with the same 3x 6K axles...

gpshemi
03-01-2010, 12:53 PM
Sounds like Lippert doesn't know what they're talking about too then...

truknutt
03-01-2010, 06:33 PM
I have a 2009 3912. Over the last 6 months, I have broken 2 leaf springs on the front axle (1 on each side). After the 2nd spring broke, I had the rig weighed on the way home. The trailer weight came in at just under 17,500 pounds. Of the 17.5K, the PIN weight was about 3,700 pounds. Total weight on the 3 trailer axles was 13,800 pounds. Since this was on the return segment of our trip, there was very little water in the fresh tanks (even though they were only about 1/3 full on the way down) and the holding tanks were empty.

The trailer is rated as follows:
each axle is rated for 6,000 pounds (3 times)
The VIN sticker on the trailer indicates the GVWR is 20,400 pounds.

We have had some discussions with Heartland and our dealer and from the initial inquiries, Heartland recommended having our dealer contact Lippert. The dealer did that.

Today, we dropped the trailer at the dealer and as part of the discussions with the service manager, he indicated Lippert thought the trailer was over weighted based on my information. Of course, he went on to say that it was possible that the water was full on the way out and that the additional 1000 pounds this would add would put me over the 18K rating on the trailer. 18K -- where did that come from? The GVWR is 20,400 per the sticker!

At first, he didn't believe me. He said all of the 3 axle trailers were rated for 18K (6000x3=18K). So, we walked to the trailer and I showed him the sticker. He was shocked. Since he had already opened the discussions with Lippert, they had checked the VIN on the frame with their records. Per that, they confirmed they shipped Heartland an 18K frame.

Obviously, the dealer now has to work with both Heartland and Lippert to figure out what is going on but I'm curious if anyone else has had this problem or has any thoughts on it? I would think Lippert would know what the rig should be rated for since they built it. I will also note I looked at the new Cyclones on the lot and they now indicate that the GVWR is 18K. Did Heartland over rate this rig and then adjust it in later years?

One other interesting thing. We don't carry and real "toys". Our garage is a bedroom for our kids and only holds our bicycles and 2 dog cages. If this is more than 200-300 pounds I would be surprised. That said, the 17500 weight per the scales was shocking! And, by the way, we didn't even have the bicycles on board when this spring broke. Something doesn't add up.

I'm just thinking out loud so bear with me. I also have a 2009 Cyclone, albeit a 3210, but the GVWR is also 20400. There were discussions about the GVWR on this forum at the time I picked it up. The 2007 & 2008s I looked at all had the 3 5200 lb axles w/15 inch tires and had a GVWR of 18,000. 2009 hit and the axles were now 6K each and the 20400 GVWR appeared. 2010 models saw the GVWR return to 18000. Personaly I use 18K for my target.

As for your figures, it seems you have a really heavy pin weight. This coupled with not carrying any toys in the garage to compensate, is it possible that your axles aren't loaded evenly? Is all the weight being spread out between your pin and heavy on the front springs thus the failures? I would recommend getting the weight at each of your tires & pin and see how the overall weight is being distributed.

Can anybody name the rig weighing firm from the last Goshen rally to use an example? I didn't use them but many did and I heard they were very surprised at the results.

Dave

BTW the extra 2,400 of GVWR seems to come from the increased axle capacity (5200 to 6000/ 800x3= 2400) I think someone just added the 2400 to 18000 and arrived at 20400.

jnbhobe
03-01-2010, 06:58 PM
Rick Lang is the guys name, heres a link http://rvsafety.com/ I didn't use him either but its good information to know. I just noticed Rick will be at the national rally in Nashville acording to their website. JON

beasleyrl
03-02-2010, 06:52 PM
Thanks Dave. We are registered for the National Rally so this is certainly something we will consider. I wondered about that front axle being overloaded too but the dealer and Lippert didn't seem to be concerned about it. Lippert asked the dealer to check the level on the rig front to back while towing to confirm it was not sitting low in the front. The dealer did that and said there was not a problem. If the rig is heavy in the front, I wonder if adjusting the pin box would shift more weight to the back.

trvlrerik
03-02-2010, 08:09 PM
In regard to trailer level while towing a small amount of pitch makes a huge difference with a heavy trailer. On my 24k work goose neck Featherlight trailer I had problems with the front springs breaking on a trailer that looked level, when the dealership scaled out each axel, the leading axel had over 10k, center axel 8k, rear axel under 6k. The trailer was loaded the heaviest at the rear.

The dealership solution was to extend the gooseneck 3/4" and it changed the axel weights to right around 8k each. The mechanic advised that measuing the trailer to the ground was not a great way to make sure the trailer was setting correctly. The best method is to scale out each axel, next best method is to level the floor over the axel area.

On my 09 3912 Cyclone the axels scale out evenly (on most trips as our garage weights change a lot) with the nose of the trailer a little high. I would bet most every trailer has its own balance, just my opinion. I hope this helps.