Circuit breaker off and still get tingling

During the night I heard the circuit breaker close and the night light in bathroom go out. The night light was plugged into the GFCI and had tripped that plugs circuit breaker several times. So this time when the main breaker went off it also cut off power to all the plugs in the kitchen. Suspecting that the culprit was the GFCI (because of it's history) I pulled that off the wall to check the wires. While playing with the wires I got a distinct tingling in my fingers from the plug. I did find one black wire that had not been properly pushed into the stab lock. I put it onto the screw instead. No problems since but I am wondering where the power could be coming from to "tingle" my fingers. (The trailer has a 50 amp EMS, but that is not important here because this is an internal problem). Thanks in advance.

Gerry

Do you have a digital multimeter? If you don't Lowes has a couple in the electrical department made by SouthWire. Get one. Then you can tell more about what is happening. A GFCI should not through a circuit breaker. It should just do its little thing.

From what you have said, there could be a multitude of problems. That tingle you feel might be a rattler fixing to bite. You feel a tingle because the circuit is not fully completed. But the only thing you can do is take a multimeter and chart chasing it down.

beardedone said:

During the night I heard the circuit breaker close and the night light in bathroom go out. The night light was plugged into the GFCI and had tripped that plugs circuit breaker several times. So this time when the main breaker went off it also cut off power to all the plugs in the kitchen. Suspecting that the culprit was the GFCI (because of it's history) I pulled that off the wall to check the wires. While playing with the wires I got a distinct tingling in my fingers from the plug. I did find one black wire that had not been properly pushed into the stab lock. I put it onto the screw instead. No problems since but I am wondering where the power could be coming from to "tingle" my fingers. (The trailer has a 50 amp EMS, but that is not important here because this is an internal problem). Thanks in advance.

Gerry

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beardedone said:

While playing with the wires I got a distinct tingling in my fingers from the plug.

Gerry

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Rule number one, verify that the power is locked out.
Always check with a meter. Do not assume that the guy before you did his job correctly.
I would disconnect from shore power and be sure that your generator is off, if you have one.
Remove the wire from the breaker in question. Leave the breaker off and reconnect to shore power. You should see zero voltage at the breaker.
While the wire is off the breaker for that circuit, check the current at the GFI.
If you see it is energized then something is not wired correctly and you will have to track it down.
If you feel uncomfortable doing this, then find someone that is experienced in electrical troubleshooting.
This stuff can kill you.

Peace
Dave

Thanks for the ideas which sound good. I will print this off and get to work on it next month when I get back out to the trailer.

Gerry

beardedone said:

During the night I heard the circuit breaker close and the night light in bathroom go out. The night light was plugged into the GFCI and had tripped that plugs circuit breaker several times. So this time when the main breaker went off it also cut off power to all the plugs in the kitchen. Suspecting that the culprit was the GFCI (because of it's history) I pulled that off the wall to check the wires. While playing with the wires I got a distinct tingling in my fingers from the plug. I did find one black wire that had not been properly pushed into the stab lock. I put it onto the screw instead. No problems since but I am wondering where the power could be coming from to "tingle" my fingers. (The trailer has a 50 amp EMS, but that is not important here because this is an internal problem). Thanks in advance.

Gerry

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Hi Gerry,
Did one of your branch circuit breakers in your Main Electric panel trip?

I am assuming not, only the GFCI in the bathroom outlet. If my assumption is correct, you would still have 120 volts on the wires on the back of the GFCI outlet. A GFCI is always the first outlet on the circuit. The GFCI will trip on very small difference in current between the hot and neutral wires, which indicates a leakage current to ground somewhere on the circuit. When it trips, it only kills the power to rest of the circuit, but the circuit is still energized at the back of the GFCI outlet.

It could be a problem anywhere on that circuit. I suspect the loose wire that already corrected, or the night light. Start by unplugging everything on the circuit, resetting, and plugging things back in one at a time. Your refrigerator is probably on that circuit, as well.

Good Luck,

Thanks for the reply Rick. Yes the main circuit breaker also tripped so both it and the GFCI were tripped. All outlets on the circuit were off and the circuit breaker was off until I attached the wire properly. This is when I got the buzz. (I think I am going to go through every outlet and put the wires on the screws) I am wondering if possibly some leakage from another circuit is getting onto this one. I am concerned now so I will have to get my tester out and go through every circuit and do an inventory of outlets to what circuit. Ensuring that nothing is wrong should keep me out of trouble. Oh, I forgot, I have never been in trouble owning a trailer. There isn't enough time, because I am always fixing something lol!

Gerry,
First, re-wiring your outlets to the screw terminals rather than the stab-in connectors is great move. The spring loaded stab-in connectors frequently do not mak solid connections. This will cause overheating of the outlet and wire, particularly where you have high loads. I've replaced a couple outlets, like the washing machine, that had gotten hot and discolored.

When this happened, was your coach plugged into a known good power source? (I know that's a loaded question, as it was probably a CG source).

I'm not an electrician, but I would be particularly diligent in checking the bonding of your neutral and chassis ground. Normally, this is required back at the Electric Panel of the campground's electrical. There are a lot of articles out there about "hot skin" situations and how to test/troubleshoot. If the circuit was de-energized (breaker tripped / off) when you got your "tingle," the only explanation I could come up with, is a potential (voltage) between neutral and Ground. This could be a deadly situation for any in or near your coach.

A meter and a non-contact voltage tester, and the knowledge to use them, is pretty valuable in an RV.

Be safe.

With the rig unplugged from shore power, check the connectivity between neutral and ground on that circuit. if you have conductivity then you have a bonded neutral which might cause something like this.

Having been shocked just a few weeks ago by a bad park pedestal, and being a retired hospital electronics technician intimately involved in electrical safety, I can tell you that the shock situation I encountered could not be easily measured by a standard Digital voltmeter (DVM). The entire metal box of the pedestal was live with no good ground to measure to. Fortunately I had listened to Jim Sokol on this forum and had purchased a Fluke non-contact voltage tester at Home Depot. BTW, the first one I bought did not work. I got an exchange and tested it on an outlet in Home Depot before leaving the 2nd time. This non contact tester is just that - the testing probe is covered in non-conducting plastic, and picks up the radio signal emitted by a live wire. I now test the pedestal before plugging in, and the trailer frame before touching the trailer or going in.

If you have a problem like you described, I would start by turning off ALL breakers, including your trailer mains and the pedestal feed breaker. Then start turning on power breakers one-by-one from the power source to the individual circuits, testing for shock hazard and circuit breaker trips at every breaker turn on.

When you get to the GFI breaker, unplug everything you can think of from the GFI outlets including the refrigerator and icemaker outside in the access panel. Most of your appliance outlets in the kitchen are on the GFI breaker, too. With no loads on the GFI outlets, turn on the GFI circuit breaker and see if you can reset the GFI protector outlet in the bathroom. I think you will see a green LED light on the GFI outlet light when it is working. Once you get the GFI protector outlet working, plug in the loads one-by-one to see if anything trips the GFI.

Good luck!!!

Jim.Allison said:

With the rig unplugged from shore power, check the connectivity between neutral and ground on that circuit. if you have conductivity then you have a bonded neutral which might cause something like this.

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As far as I know, the neutral should only be bonded at the service connection

You are absolutely right. If you check for conductivity between the neutral and the ground and you GET conductivity you may have a bonded neutral in the rig. if you do then this is where your problem might be coming from.

totosparents said:

As far as I know, the neutral should only be bonded at the service connection

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