truknutt
Committed Member
First of all a 5th wheel will never have a GCWR by itself, it's GVWR you wish to address and secondly, it so happens that the GVWR on my Cyclone is 21,400 lbs.
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First of all a 5th wheel will never have a GCWR by itself, it's GVWR you wish to address and secondly, it so happens that the GVWR on my Cyclone is 21,400 lbs.
dave10a
Well-known member
Welp I guess I better send a note CAT scales and inform them that their scales are off
Then I guess I should send a note to Ford that their are people who think I am overloaded and to be on the look out. Then I guess I should should believe everything I read on this forum. But maybe not---never know know when the weight police will show up in their black helicopters.
datedd
Member
Welp I guess I better send a note CAT scales and inform them that their scales are off
1. Welp I guess I won't get a straight answer regarding the type of truck (F 350 SB SRW) that I am considering to buy and to learn from the owner it's towing characteristics and the effect the pin weight in the rear axle and payload!
2. Welp I'm not the weight police!
3. Welp I come to these forums for answers not sarcastic replies!
4. Welp I will have to throw the dice and find another forum and ask someone else with this configuration what their experiences are!
5. Welp I'm outta here!
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mattpopp
Trouble Maker
Sorry, I had no idea this forum had acronym policing. But you caught my mistake, thank you.
But which Cyclone do you have? Must be a older one. As they only go up to 18k GVWR. Regardless, even at 21,400 lbs that puts the F-350 within spec. But I would drop the ELE brakes for EOH on that trailer regardless of what I towed it with. Assuming that is the correct GVWR for that trailer.
I did say however you are safe up to a 20k GVWR with a 1ton as you never know how a person has their pickup outfitted. May have a 1500lb steel bed,100gal aux tank, and 500 lbs in the tool box. As the weight adds up quickly.
Reason I say that as Heartland has been known to get the GVWR on the VIN sticker wrong. Such as they did on my trailer.
datedd
Member
I'm talking about the payload, NOT the pulling capacity. There are two sides to this equation. I ask because I am considering this type of truck.
truknutt
Committed Member
Use these links to figure your needs. 2012 Super Duty Technical Specifications (page 3 has your payload info) & 2012 Super Duty Towing Guide. Variables in the truck change the outcome; cab style, bed length, engine, rear axle ratio, 2WD vs. 4WD, etc.
The GCWR is the TOTAL combined weight of truck & trailer.
The GVWR is the individual vehicle weight (truck OR trailer).
This may be just "WEIGHT POLICE" material but I believe that manufacturers pluck these numbers from the sky for safety reasons, for both equipment & its occupants. Bottom line is that YOU have to use the gleaned information as you see fit.
Good luck.
datedd
Member
Thank you VERY much truknutt. I did some calculations with the calculators (BYB RV and an Excel template I pulled from another forum) and I would not tow a 16,250 pound (GVWR) Landmark with a short bed F 350 SRW truck.
It's a shame that the term "weight police" is used when it comes to these things. My wife is a former truck driver and she has experienced situations where trucks have gone over their 80,000 weight limit to deliver that "extra" bit of cargo, not taking into consideration such things as downgrades, tire blowouts etc. which end up causing serious consequences. The RV Trailering / Fifthwheel industry is not immune to similar circumstances either.
mattpopp
Trouble Maker
You do realize that the standard 80k gross cap set on Semi's is totally different then the manufacturers preset GCWR set for a pickup.
mattpopp
Trouble Maker
Which Cyclone has that high of a GTWR, I am curious as I did not know they went that high in the past
datedd
Member
I'm totally aware that both vehicles are different animals, my point is safety which is a universal concept.
rgwilliams69
Well-known member
Wayne sometimes I wonder what the true upper limit of these trucks can be. Seems like they keep upstaging each other each year - which is cool. I know in talking with my shop manager at my dealer they can (and probably will) keep going up on the Fords with horsepower and torque also, probably just with a new software release occasionally. I seem to remember them going from 350 HP to 400 HP and 750 FTLB to 800 FTLB with an early flash for the new 6.7 PSD. Interesting stuff. My "dodge" buddy/neighbor/camping/racing pal and I like to look at the latest magazines as they inch the specs up year by year. January's Trailer Life has some good comparisons on the 2013, although for some reasons some of their numbers are way off. Need better reporting I guess.
mattpopp
Trouble Maker
They engineer these pickups to last what 4 to 6 years before a major redesign. When they do this they have to be able to keep up with the competition throughout that period with minimum engineering to none to protect cost. There is room to increase the towing numbers and all they have to do is change the brochure to increase them. As they have done in the past and continue to do so.
None of us actually know what they really design these pickups to. Just like you said, they released the 2011 and then months later increased the power. They only release minimum numbers (power and towing) to slightly out do the competition. If you release the max numbers on day one will you just set the bench mark for the other brand to beat. When they do beat that number you now have no room to increase your numbers. So now you have to lean on engineering to redesign "x" parts to increase.
The max GCWR on a f350 might be 35k but they are only going to inch that number up when the Marketing department sees the need to.
This is why I laugh at people that are scared to tow close to the max GVWR or GCWR. Especially on new models where the set numbers are still fairly conservative.
As the towing numbers increase you may only see a settle change. Dodge and ford did a towing increase and the only thing that changed was HP. Totally contradicts the weight police argument on why you shouldn't tow at or above the GCWR or GVWR. As usually their argument is its the brakes or suspension.
mattpopp
Trouble Maker
That's my point, and nothing mechanical has changed. Same axles, same brakes, same suspension, and just same everything as 2011 and 2012. Yet people are scared to tow at the set numbers and think they need a Semi to tow 20k plus weight.
rgwilliams69
Well-known member
Well I for one do not feel like I'm getting a good return on investment unless I can get as close to the max measures as possible! Hey if you have it might as well use it. My F250 was on the edge with everything pulling our Keystone Alpine, but it pulled like a dream and got good fuel economy to boot. Now to find a 21,500 GVWR coach and figure out how to get to the 5,990 payload.
I love these trucks! Wish it was nicer outside I would go camping this week.
Hey if you have it might as well use it. My F250 was on the edge with everything pulling our Keystone Alpine, but it pulled like a dream and got good fuel economy to boot. Now to find a 21,500 GVWR coach and figure out how to get to the 5,990 payload.I love these trucks! Wish it was nicer outside I would go camping this week.
mattpopp
Trouble Maker
Well I for one do not feel like I'm getting a good return on investment unless I can get as close to the max measures as possible!
I love these trucks! Wish it was nicer outside I would go camping this week.
Somebody on here said they have a Cyclone with a GTWR of 21,400lbs. Curious to know which model that is but that should fit the bill.
porthole
Retired
Buy a 3 axle toy hauler and you will out class every SRW made. As to 5th wheels exceeding 18K - some Cyclones are rated at 20,500.
Cyclones that are rated at 18K can easily exceed that weight. Base weight of about 14K, add 2500 for a loaded garage, 1000 for full water and you are at 17,500 before a single can of Beef-a-roni and an empty basement.
If you need it, the 450 gives a serious advantage over the 350 and it is not all fluff.
For 2013, and depending on which chart you look at, either 3000, 2500 or 1900 pounds more 5th wheel towing capacity. I think the 350 may now get the larger 450's brakes, that wide front axle and a higher gear ratio. That 4.3 gear ratio gives you a GCWR of 33000, a 3000 pound increase over the 350.
