2012 Ford Super Duty F-350

[porthole]

Somebody on here said they have a Cyclone with a GTWR of 21,400lbs. Curious to know which model that is but that should fit the bill.

Some Cyclones have ratings that combined the 18K for the three 6K axles and the 2500 from the pin box.

 

[mattpopp]

Some Cyclones have ratings that combined the 18K for the three 6K axles and the 2500 from the pin box.

No they don't. It is whatever the GVWR says. Even though weight is transferred to the pin it is still carried by the entire chassis of the trailer before it is transferred. The weight is always there. When you unhitched the trailer the weight is now transferred to the jacks and not the pin, but the weight is still on the chassis. The chassis is only rated for that load and it just also happens to be the same GAWR.

If there is 3000lbs transferred to the pin, this doesn't mean you can now have a grossed load on the trailer's chassis of 21,000 lbs even if the GVWR says 18,000. Doesn't work like that.

Doing this you compromise the integrity of the chassis, you have exceeded the design limitations.

 

[mattpopp]

Buy a 3 axle toy hauler and you will out class every SRW made. As to 5th wheels exceeding 18K - some Cyclones are rated at 20,500.
Cyclones that are rated at 18K can easily exceed that weight. Base weight of about 14K, add 2500 for a loaded garage, 1000 for full water and you are at 17,500 before a single can of Beef-a-roni and an empty basement.

If you need it, the 450 gives a serious advantage over the 350 and it is not all fluff.
For 2013, and depending on which chart you look at, either 3000, 2500 or 1900 pounds more 5th wheel towing capacity. I think the 350 may now get the larger 450's brakes, that wide front axle and a higher gear ratio. That 4.3 gear ratio gives you a GCWR of 33000, a 3000 pound increase over the 350.

Well, when I said that a F350 (SRW or DRW) will cover every 5th on the road. I figured people would understand that between the two it would. If the SRW didn't have the capacity the DRW would.

The 450 front brakes are .9" larger in diameter. Front brakes provide 70% of the braking force. Now since everybody believes larger brakes are better (normally they are) what is the hydraulic pressure being applied and what is the total piston surface area in the calipers? Is it the same between the two? Or is there difference? Because if there is a difference it could mean they dont apply the same amount of clamping force? Less clamping force over the rotor means less braking power. Just throwing that out there as nobody has ever mentioned it.

My point is that 450 are over kill. Ford has seen a market and they understand people's attitude towards pickups. Between the DRW and SRW F350 they will tow all 5th wheels safely with ease. Meaning if the SRW doesn't have the Capacity the DRW does.

Funny thing is, if you gross out at 25k (or higher) with both 450 and 350. You get better mileage out of the 350.

People put to much focus on the 450. They believe its safer tow rig. People are looking in the wrong spot for increasing safety. Going is the easy part stopping is the hard part. If people saved the difference by buying a 350 rather then a 450 and used that money to EOH brakes on their trailer. They would be miles ahead of the guy in the 450 that doesn't have EOH brakes on his trailer.

How many stories have you read about people crashing because the brakes weren't big enough on their 1ton pickup while towing within there specs?? Or couldn't make a turn because they lacked 5* in turning radius? Probably none.

 

[rgwilliams69]

My wife drools over the 650s she sees now and again, but I was able to keep her off the 450! She is one of those women who loves the big trucks - I swear we'd have a Peterbilt if I let her choose.

 

[dave10a]

Maybe you wouldn't but I have absolutely no problem and neither does Ford Motor. Don't make personal opinion sound like facts please.....

 

[porthole]

it so happens that the GVWR on my Cyclone is 21,400 lbs.

Which Cyclone has that high of a GTWR, I am curious as I did not know they went that high in the past

Like I said, not all use just the axle sum.

Funny thing is, if you gross out at 25k (or higher) with both 450 and 350. You get better mileage out of the 350.

3.7 versus 4.3 would equate for better mileage for similar trucks.

Well, when I said that a F350 (SRW or DRW) will cover every 5th on the road. I figured people would understand that between the two it would. If the SRW didn't have the capacity the DRW would.

There are plenty of 5th wheels out there that would put a 450 to task, just so happens the Heartland rigs all are comfortable behind the 450/4500 and down pick ups.
Either way, If our trailer was a 4100 I would want the capacity of the 450. GCWR, brakes, axle width and gear ratio. It is not all hype.

And your EOH brakes are not going to be that much of a help unless you changed to disc brakes.
I will add, with the truly proportionate brake controllers on the 2011+ Fords, EOH and disc brakes make for a great combination for stopping.

How many stories have you read about people crashing because the brakes weren't big enough on their 1ton pickup while towing within there specs?? Or couldn't make a turn because they lacked 5* in turning radius? Probably none.

None. But, if the wider axle was an option on the 350 I would have taken it. The one thing I miss with my GMC is the turning radius.

 

[mattpopp]

Like I said, not all use just the axle sum.



3.7 versus 4.3 would equate for better mileage for similar trucks.



There are plenty of 5th wheels out there that would put a 450 to task, just so happens the Heartland rigs all are comfortable behind the 450/4500 and down pick ups.
Either way, If our trailer was a 4100 I would want the capacity of the 450. GCWR, brakes, axle width and gear ratio. It is not all hype.

And your EOH brakes are not going to be that much of a help unless you changed to disc brakes.
I will add, with the truly proportionate brake controllers on the 2011+ Fords, EOH and disc brakes make for a great combination for stopping.

None. But, if the wider axle was an option on the 350 I would have taken it. The one thing I miss with my GMC is the turning radius.

My 300c has a GAWR of 14k and a GVWR of 16,000. But the chassis is rated to handle the 16,000. The rigs that have matching numbers could have a higher GVWR but either the chassis is not rated for it or HL is trying to keep the GCWR below 26k. I can only assume that is why they don't increase it.

My old gooseneck had a GAWR of 24k and a GVWR of 25,999.

Maybe I read your post wrong, where you just pointing out that they two don't have to match? Cause I took it as you meant you can safely go over the GVWR because you share weight with the pickup. If that is the case, my bad.

Another assumption but I thought every understood EOH brakes as Disc Brakes? Was not even aware of hydraulic drum brakes.

I know it's not hype but people are coming to the conclusion that you must have a 450 to tow a rig like a 4100. Not the case at all. 350 will do it all day long, just as safe, and still manage better mpg. 4.30 gears are pointless, that I will argue. Just fuel hog. These pickups are geared very well. Sitting at 25.5k I have absolutely no issue accelerating nor do I have any issue passing without the need to downshift.

These pickups have 800ftlb pushing them. 3 years ago everybody was towing the same weight with 650ftlb and smaller brakes. Those did just fine also. So why are people pushing the 450????

Heck, why not pick up a used Peterbuilt and a used 1/2 pickup for DD. You'll come out cheaper then buying a new 450 and be the safest guy on the road.

 

[rumaco]

Absolute load of HS! I have a TOW BOSS F350 and these are rated at 33000 lbs combined weight giving the rig at 25000#. I tow all over the NW as a full timer and have been over more passes than you can count. The most proven engine is the Cummins and the most proven transmission is the Allison.

 

[jnbhobe]

My last TV was a F-350 SRW with 3.73 gears changed it to 4.30's, the only difference was a lot better towing power and I lost 1 mpg solo driving. I don't know if that was the only difference in being a Tow Boss.

 

[wino2]

Hey Guys just an FYI, the post about taking a look at the 2013 F350 was done by Melinda she sells Ford Trucks, has for 40 years. Got a good chuckle from it Thanks, Melinda

 

[porthole]

Heck, why not pick up a used Peterbuilt and a used 1/2 pickup for DD. You'll come out cheaper then buying a new 450 and be the safest guy on the road.

Don't see how an OTR truck with many hard miles and an oily mess of a truck that would beat the heck out of an RV is the answer. Let alone the step in height would preclude it from being practical to many RV'ers

 

[porthole]

My last TV was a F-350 SRW with 3.73 gears changed it to 4.30's, the only difference was a lot better towing power and I lost 1 mpg solo driving. I don't know if that was the only difference in being a Tow Boss.

Jon, "Springer Dan" on the site here ordered his 450 within days of me ordering the 350. He has one of the 3 axle Cyclones. Taking the same route we took to Goshen (he lives about 20 minutes from me) with similar loads, he got 1 MPG less then me, same as your findings.

 

[mattpopp]

Don't see how an OTR truck with many hard miles and an oily mess of a truck that would beat the heck out of an RV is the answer. Let alone the step in height would preclude it from being practical to many RV'ers

One day a Sarcasm font will be invented.

My last TV was a F-350 SRW with 3.73 gears changed it to 4.30's, the only difference was a lot better towing power and I lost 1 mpg solo driving. I don't know if that was the only difference in being a Tow Boss.

So the conclusion is that 4.30 gears waste fuel and 3.73 gears are more then sufficient to at least a Gross of 30k without issue.

 

[jnbhobe]

I would always like to have one gear set lower than stock for this part of the country. Its hills all the time the 1 mpg loss is nothing to me I'd rather have the performance. I get better mileage towing my trailer down the highway than I do driving around empty because I never get into 6th gear.

 

[rgwilliams69]

Let me start by saying that I am absolutely no an expert in gear ratios, and am asking this question for clarity's sake. I was under the impression that what you looked for in gearing/torque combination was enough torque to keep you in your highest gear (i.e. 6 on the 6.7l Ford Trucks) at your preferred highway speed, thus turning the minimum number of RPMs to keep your rig/load moving, thus expending the least amount of fuel.

I live in the flatlands of Illinois but also do plenty of towing in hilly country through the year, and always aim to keep my truck in 6th, which is where I also have the best (observed/measured) mileage. On my previous F250 I had the 3.55 e-lock and much more experience/observation towing a 16-17k rig. My new truck is a F350 with 3.73 towing a 17k-19k rig. I should still strive to hit that magic spot where I'm going as fast as I want to, in 6th gear, with the minimum amount of RPM and no gear "searching", right? I think by design since I am not anywhere near the 22k 5th wheel and 6k payload max on the truck I would want the lowest ratio possible. I was a little disappointed to not be able to get the 3.55 e-lock on my 2012 - it is not offered on the DRW models.

If there a time when I would want to lock out 6th gear and make 5th my maximum gear? You can do that on these trucks. With 800 ftlbs of torque I typically have no issue at all keeping 6th, even going over hills.

Running my typical 62-65 mph towing on the F250 seemed like I was around 1500 rpm. With the F350 at the same speed (also remember, heavier rig) I tend to be more around 1750 rpm.

Thoughts?

 

[jnbhobe]

I would rather have 3.73 gears in my 6.7 I have a 3.55 gears now and turn about 1750 at 70 miles per hour. Once I get west of Cleveland my truck wont shift out of 6th gear until Chicago. But it won't do that here in Pennsylvania


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[scottyb]

I had 4.10 gears in a 93 F250 with a 5 speed stick and a 7.3 L aspirated Navistar. It ran 30 mph for every 1000 rpms but still got better fuel mileage than any of my turbos. It wouldn't pull anything and put out a smoke screen in the mountains. I thought it was going to fly apart when I drove it up on Pike's Peak. It definitely needed the gear ratio and I wish Ford offered a 4.10 with their F350 now. The jump to 4.30 in the F450 is a huge step. I purchased a F550 for the company last summer, and have driven it several times. It pulls great but really winds up on the freeway at 70 mph. Thankfully the F350/450 don't ride like the F550. It is a tank. I think the 4.10 gears would be a happy medium.

One exception. My wife's 2002 7.3 PS Excursion got 18 - 20 mpg with it's 3.55 gears, but none of my trucks have ever done that well.

 

[Doubleringer]

1999 350 SRW 7.3 Navistar Diesel 4x4 crew cab long bed 3.73 rear gear 191,562 miles. Bought new to pull first 5th wheel that was 33'. Then bought 2011 Big Horn 3610RE. Thought I would just see how the 1999 pulled the new 5th whl. 32000 miles later, pulling from Michigan back and forth to Florida to South Dakota to Yellowstone to Denver and back to Michigan I think I will keep the 1999 a few years more, have not had any major problems with the truck or the Big Horn. Must be cause it is a RED Power Stroke.

 

[mattpopp]

One thing, you can't compare gear ratios from the 7.3 to 6.0 to 6.4 to the 6.7 engines in Fords.You also can't compare Auto from Manual transmission. Different engines have a different power band that it should be in to perform a job as efficient as possible. It's to you to figure out what is the most important job that pickup will do and what is the 2nd job. Usually it is either a DD and then Towing or the other way around. You will either gear to tow, or to DD or you will find a medium.

For the F350 11 to present the 3.73 is a good towing gear to safely tow with a max Gross of 30k. 3.55 in these years would be a happy medium but would sacrifice some towing performance.

This is the same with Dodge, 47re/48re auto, G56, or 68rfe cant be compared to one another when considering final drive gear ratios. They all have a different gear ratio for their final gear, whether it be 4th gear or 6th gear.

So when looking for advice on final drive axle ratio, be sure you are getting advice from a person with the same engine and transmission as yours.

 

[porthole]

I think the 4.10 gears would be a happy medium.

Given the choice when ordered, that is what I would have gone with.