30 to 50amps

[desertranger]

Originally my plan was to by a fiver or toyhauler for the 50A service. Unfortunately I wound up in a travel trailer with it's 30a service. Caca Occurs that's just the way it happened. So now I want to upgrade my electrical because the 30amp panel runs warm when I have the AC on and I have medical and computer equipment to install. The easiest way to do it would to be to get a factory 50a panel and replace the 30a then add my additional circuits. Would also allow me to divide the GFCIs into two banks instead of one and to take advantage of additional 12vdc circuits that are built in to the panel. The alternative would to be to install a NEMA 50amp service and then use the existing 30a service as a subpanel. That actually would be easier but I have plans for 12vdc that could benefit from their own fuses in the main panel.

Other than seeking comments, and getting approval to post freely, is to find out if the existing shore power cable will handle the 50 amp load or does that have to be replaced as well.

I've already measured what I use now in full summertime load load and it comes to just under 25a. My calcs for the additioal equipment call for a full load draw of 39.5a which would allow me an additional 10a for starting current etc. I've also figured a way to relieve some of the 12vdc load but this is an AC thread.

 

[jnbhobe]

You will have to change both the cord and the cable in the trailer to 6ga/4wire to handle the 50amp service.

 

[wal_mart]

I believe 50 amp service is 4 wire 220v.

 

[caissiel]

I would also change the Panel to handle the extra lines and distribute the wiring

 

[jmgratz]

Why not just add a dedicated 20 amp circuit? Course you would have to run the wiring but sounds like you might have to do that anyway. Most parks have a 20 amp circuit on the pedestal. Then you would pay for a 30 amp site and be able to use the 30 amp and 20 amp plugs on the pedestal. Just a thought.

 

[evolvingpowercat]

What is called 50 Amp service is actually two 120 Volt 50 Amp service circuits and one can use up to 100 Amp of 120 Volt loads at once. Where as 30 Amp is one 120 Volt service circuit and one can use up to 30 Amp of 120 Volt loads at once.

Two independently hot wires on 50 A breaker circuits, a return (neutral) and a ground. Generally one hot will be L1 and other hot will be L2 and L1 to L2 will be 220 Volts. But, generally there are no 220 Volt circuits in 5th wheels and RV trailers, only the big motor coach rigs have 50 Amp that actually uses anything that is 220 Volt between L1 and L2 like a 220 Volt Electric Range or 220 Volt Electric Dryer.

You will have substantial work and cost to re-work a rig you bought with 30 A to 50 A, and if what you end up with does not look good it may kill your resale value if you find anyone to buy it at all, if care about that. Suggestions:


- It may make more sense just to sell what you have and upgrade to what you want and need.

- The suggestion to leave the current 30 Amp alone and add a separate supplemental 20 Amp power system using a second 12 gauge 120 Volt cord with 3 Prong plug to plug into a standard 120 Volt 20 Amp Receptacle may be an option. However, its not a sure bet that just because a campground pedestal has both 30 A and 20 A outlets that the pedestal is able to deliver full current to both at the same time, giving you ability to use up to 50 Amps from that pedestal. You might have to build or buy a box with two breakers feeding a 30 A and a 20 A receptacle with a cord with a 50 Amp Plug on it to plug into a pedestal with 50 Amp outlet.

 

[evolvingpowercat]

One more comment "medical and computer" equipment likely does not draw much power, at most a few hundred watts. It is OK for wires to run a little warmer than ambient temperature, AC electrical systems and the wire that is used with them are designed for that. For example if the 30 Amp service is running at full load that is drawing 3,600 watts from the plug. If there is 1 volt voltage drop in the wiring (which is OK) then that is 30 watts of the 3,600 that is turning into heat in the wiring. Of course that is not all in one place it is spread all across the wiring.

Sometimes, an AC hot or neutral connection in the breaker box or else where may not be tight and this loose connection can generate a lot of heat at that point. So if your breaker box or a receptacle is getting warm or one of the breakers is getting warm be sure to get this checked out. The wire and or terminal at the connection can literally be destroyed by too much heat, triggering a costly repair, and can reach temperatures that can ignite combustibles which is why AC connections are supposed to only be in UL approved boxes that keep them away from them.

 

[caissiel]

The panel itself would not be that expensive, if the existing circuit breakers would be compatible, or resell the 30AMP Panel. There is a reason to go to the 50 Amp panel as stated above.
It would make your unit normally setup for standard 50 Amps system.

I installed a 30 Amp panel in a small camper and it was simple as house wiring. Any electrician can do that properly for you.

It might affect the converter capacity requirements though should be checked, most panels now come with DC distribution panel

 

[Silverado23]

Aside from a few hours of labor and a few dollars in new wiring and panel. It really is a doable project. One question that you may want to consider, is where you go with your trailer, do you regularly have 50 amp service? It could be expensive upgrade only to still be limited to park power of 30 amps most of the time.

 

[porthole]

One of the two RV parts wholesalers in Elkhart will probably new or nerve installed panels to do what you want.

A bit of work, but it fit works for you, go for it. The 50 amp shore power cord will be pricey. You will need a 50 amp shore power inlet connection which is also pricey. 6 gauge wire on the inside to the new panel

One option to consider since you need a new shore power cord and inlet anyway is replacing what you have now with a electric reel. I added one to my trailer. Comes with 35' of power cord and 4-5' leads to connect to the panel. Manual reels with wire are avaible too.

http://www.rvupgradestore.com/RV-Power-Cord-Reels-s/116.htm

And a quick search of evilbay will have plenty for you to choose from, new and used.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RV-trailer-...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item51a27042bd
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shoreline-5...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item35c05c8942

An advantage to the power cords that come on reels is that they are flexible. Unlike the anaconda cords that are supplied with trailers

Just an FYI, there are quite a few of us on the forum that have 50 amp service but frequently only use a 30 amp cord with the female end wired for the 50 inlet.

 

[DonnyB007]

Originally my plan was to by a fiver or toyhauler for the 50A service. Unfortunately I wound up in a travel trailer with it's 30a service. Caca Occurs that's just the way it happened. So now I want to upgrade my electrical because the 30amp panel runs warm when I have the AC on and I have medical and computer equipment to install. The easiest way to do it would to be to get a factory 50a panel and replace the 30a then add my additional circuits. Would also allow me to divide the GFCIs into two banks instead of one and to take advantage of additional 12vdc circuits that are built in to the panel. The alternative would to be to install a NEMA 50amp service and then use the existing 30a service as a subpanel. That actually would be easier but I have plans for 12vdc that could benefit from their own fuses in the main panel.

Other than seeking comments, and getting approval to post freely, is to find out if the existing shore power cable will handle the 50 amp load or does that have to be replaced as well.

I've already measured what I use now in full summertime load load and it comes to just under 25a. My calcs for the additioal equipment call for a full load draw of 39.5a which would allow me an additional 10a for starting current etc. I've also figured a way to relieve some of the 12vdc load but this is an AC thread.

If you are going that route of replacing the 30 amp panel and upgrading to 50 amp, I would upgrade the shoreline wire too. The thing is, you are carefully calculating amps going in, but what about when you sell your trailer to someone else? The other thing to always ask yourself is would your job pass code? A 50 amp panel supplied by a shoreline 30 amp wire certainly would be questionable.

 

[evolvingpowercat]

First of all there is nothing wrong with your panel getting warm when you use it close to its rated size. Just make sure that that all the screws on the breakers and neutral and ground bars are snug. ( with the power disconnected of course ! )

...

I still think you are killing a flea with a sledge hammer changing from 30 Amp capacity to 100 Amp capacity service ( what the RV industry calls 50 Amp is really 50 x 2 or 100 Amp Service ) since you are not trying to add another rooftop AC unit, which would be a legit reason for making the change.

If you just need to go from 30 amps to 45 amps capacity, I still think you should consider adding a second service with a 15 Amp shore power cord. Then you could park at 50 Amp RV spaces and use both your existing 30 Amp and the new 15 Amp shore cables on a 50 amp pedestal at the same time. You generally can't do 30 + 15 at a 30 Amp Pedestal they are not designed to deliver more than 30 amps out the two receptacles together.

So - you still want to go to 50 Amps, I have not changed your mind ...

Going from 30 to 50 amp, you are not going to be able to reuse your 30 amp shore cable, or your 30 amp shore cable receptable if your camper has one. The 30 amp uses 3 wires and 3 pins on the plug / receptacle: 120 V L1 hot, 120 V N Neutral, and G Ground, each wire must be rated 30 amps. The 50 amp uses 4 wires and 4 pins on the plug / receptable: 120 V L1 hot, 120 V L2 hot, 120 V Neutral, and G Ground, each wire must be rated 50 amps.

I hope you do your project in a safe way - good luck.