ATF: Cyclone - Repeated Blown Appliances

[tammyinwv]

We bought or camper last fall. While still under warranty, We were at the beach a few months ago, and found the electric off, and bedroom TV, central vac, and microwave blown. The thread can be found here: //heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/40478-bad-transfer-switch

Now for an update:
The dealer says the appliances arent covered under warranty, but Progressive Dynamics says the only symptoms of an Open Neutral is usually only a series of blown appliances. I forwarded this to Heartland. Now Holman motors, determined it is from a power surge, said they replaced the bedroom TV, and central vac from ones they had as a good faith gesture. We picked up the camper on friday, over the weekend installed a wired in surge protector AFTER the transfer switch to protect appliances. It was about $300, and another one that hangs on the pedestal to protect the transfer switch. We arrived at the campground on the 2nd. Plugged the pedestal one in, checked the lights, everything was OK, then plugged the camper in. Lights looked good on the wired in one. Went inside, and found the bedroom TV and central vac dont work,and assumed blown again. We never replaced the microwave yet, thank goodness. We wondered if the new appliances has been missed and not installed, but Holman's assures us they were. So if $100 surge protector on pedestal didnt find a problem, and the wired one from progressive didnt show a problem, then it would seem there IS a problem in the wiring AFTER the transfer switch and AFTER the surge protector since the surge protector and switch both still work. And the S. protectors never indicated a problem. Now what do we do?

 

[danemayer]

Hi tammyinwv,

over the weekend installed a wired in surge protector AFTER the transfer switch to protect appliances. It was about $300

$300 sounds like it would likely be a 50Amp Electrical Management System, not just a surge protector. Do you know what device you installed?

 

[Bob&Patty]

It is possible that you have a problem within your power cord, circuit breaker panel, or the plug on your unit. Are you at the same CG again? Someone should do some checking from the power cord to the circuit breaker box in your coach. Are you using a 30 amp or 50 amp service at the CG? Dumb question....are you twisting the power cord to the right to lock it in when plugging in at a CG? If not...you could have issues.

 

[TravelTiger]

I don't have answers...just trying to ask questions that you may not have thought about.

Were any breakers tripped for the TV and Central Vac? Did you see these appliances working before you had the issue of them not working again? Are you sure the wired in surge protector was wired correctly? $100 for a 50amp surge protector seems low, are you sure it protects against mis-wirings at the pedestal?

 

[JohnDar]

Just checking, a Progressive SSP-50 Surge Protector (plugs into pedestal) runs $132. The 50A hardwired surge suppressors from Progressive and SurgeGuard retail at over $400 (unless you find a real deal someplace) As mentioned, more details on the specific surge protection and the history before the failure might be helpful.

 

[tammyinwv]

Let me clarify. the wired in one was around $300, the other one on the pedestal was another approx $100. The first time at the beach, there were no tripped breakers. Techs also checked the pedestal and it checked OK. This last time, again no tripped breakers anywhere. Pedestal surge protector indicated all was OK before we plugged the camper in, then wired in surge protector showed NO problems. All lights and indicators came on as normal. Went inside, and the appliances that were blown before were blown again. Except the microwave that we had not replaced yet. No tripped breakers, transfer switch works fine. It seems that these same 3 appliances must be on the same leg, and possibly sometime of problem AFTER the transfer switch and wired in surge protector.

The link I provided in my first post, gives more info. We used the camper once before the beach last Fall. Everything worked well. when we plugged into the beach everything was well for the first few days. Went to the beach, and came back to find all power off, but only appliances blown were the bedroom TV, central vac, and microwave. Same appliances this last time.

We are still at campground in TN on 50 amp. Everything works well except the tv and vac. I can plug a clock into tv outlet and it works, but TV is a goner. We hadnt tried anything to check it after picking it up from Holmans until we got here on the 2nd.

No breakers tripped inside on tv and vac, as I said the outlet works when a clock is plugged in. however when things were blown at the beach, including the transfer swithc, no breakers inside or on the pedestal were tripped.

The $300 some surge protector is supposed to detect low voltage as well as high, and protect against open neutral. Thats why it seems to me, it has to be something in the wiring of the camper, after the transfer switch and s. protector, since the wired in one is AFTER the surge protector.
Tammy

 

[JohnDar]

Check any GFCI outlets in the rig. One of them may feed the circuits in question and got tripped. Do any of your other 120V outlets work? If so, try plugging one of the faulty appliances into it and see if it works. Blowing the central vac due to a power surge seems strange since it's not normally drawing power until you turn it on.

 

[scottyb]

Check any GFCI outlets in the rig. One of them may feed the circuits in question and got tripped. Do any of your other 120V outlets work? If so, try plugging one of the faulty appliances into it and see if it works. Blowing the central vac due to a power surge seems strange since it's not normally drawing power until you turn it on.

That's what I was thinking too. My vac is plugged into a recepticle in the basement. It should not be effected unless it is being used when the power surge happens. You nedd to check to see if there is power getting to the appliances that are not working. If you had a Progressive EMS installed, plus the surge protector, it is doubtful that any further damage has occurred.

 

[danemayer]

I think TV, Vacuum, and microwave may all be on separate circuit breakers. Has anyone pulled the circuit breaker box and checked for loose or damaged wires on the backside? If you do this - remove all power sources first.

 

[tammyinwv]

I would think anything plugged in could be damaged by a power surge whether on or not, but I am not an electrician. I plugged a clock into bedroom tv outlet and it works, not the tv.The first time at the beach, both air conditioners were running, but same 3 effected but not turned on. No one was in camper. However the little alarm clock we had plugged into bedroom out was OK. My husband looked at the breakers and didnt see anything wrong. Nothing is tripped. We read on another thread on here, where someone else had the same 3 appliances affected, making me think these 3 are on the same leg. If a GFCI outlet is outlet near a sink, we have a nightlight plugged into the one in bathroom and it works. It also worked at the beach.
Tammy

 

[wdk450]

Tammy:
Did you see the new TV and other new appliances ACTUALLY work after being replaced? Are their any records of serial numbers? I know the dealer SAID that they replaced these appliances, but we have read may postings on this forum, when dealers didn't do what they said they did. At least some purchase orders, or other documentation to prove the appliances were at least purchased would be somewhat re-assuring. It's pretty peculiar with all of the circuit protection you now have, to have the EXACT SAME appliances go out again.
Heartland service may have a list of your appliance serial numbers on their build database. Have your VIN number ready when you call them.

On the other hand, selling your new appliances on E-Bay, and leaving the old ones in, would make a nice little side profit for an RV tech.

 

[danemayer]

My husband looked at the breakers and didnt see anything wrong. Nothing is tripped.

Has he checked the backside of the breakers to see if the wires are tight and undamaged?

 

[wiredawgchief]

I have an electric wiring claim that I'm submitting to Heartland for reimbursement. At three days out of one-year warranty, we were camping under generator power when we heard a loud pop and no more generator power. I checked power at PD5200 transfer switch and was seeing 48.7VAC on both legs to neutral. I'm believing something failed in the generator, I took it to Onan, where they found burnt wiring in the junction box from the generator to the RV. The wiring splice had not been done properly and was arcing inside the junction box. Cost me $169. My biggest concern is there are other bad splices in the unit. I know the power panel gets hot, which Explore USA told me is normal. It is not normal. I have my unit back and before I plug into shore power, I'm going to check the back of the power panel. Heat can be connections that are not tight. Good luck with your situation and I'll start my own post to either say that Heartland is fair and reasonable with some quality control problems or that they are irresponsible turning out products with dangerous hazards. Ron

 

[dave10a]

An improperly or open bonded neutral and the pedestal will cause this problem. It will allow the voltage to increase to 240vac for split phase power which will blow most 120 vac appliances. It is best to have protection like many surge suppressors provide because of the dicey connections at campgrounds. The most common pedestal problem happens when people forget to unplug their power before moving the RV. This is not a warranty issue-- unless it can be shown that the neutral was not properly bonded in the trailer.

 

[tammyinwv]

I feel the same way as you. these wiring issues need to be taken very seriously. My husband said he hasnt found any loose wires yet, but we still dont know whats going on. I know when we go to bed at night and turn on the air, I can hear a cracking noice near the bedroom ac unit.It happens about every minute or so for about 10 min, then I dont know if it quits or I fall asleep. That doesnt seem normal either.
Tammy

 

[wiredawgchief]

Dave, I have a 50 amp power mgt/surge suppressor from camping world. When you plug in, it tells you that voltage is safe and neutral/ground is in place. I've used one in each camper for years and offers good protection. It will shut power off if it detects over/under voltage. It sounds like what they are using. If there is a bad neutral on the RV side wiring, nothing in front of it will help. I use surge suppressors on my TVs and electronics, but they won't work if there is grounding issue. I carry a volt-ohm multi-meter with me and plan on performing a thorough check of each A/C outlet and wiring in the RV. Tammy and Roger: If you are not proficient or comfortable using a multi-meter, Home Depot and Lowes carry a neat little plug that you can plug into each outlet and will tell you if hot, neutral and ground are present. Ron

 

[tammyinwv]

Ron, I finally had my husband show me the things he ordered. Here are the links:
http://tweetys.com/50-amp-portable-surge-protector-polarity-tester.aspx

http://tweetys.com/electrical-management-system-hardwire-50-AMP.aspx

Your explanation is what has me worried. That it has to be a problem inside the camper somewhere since these 2 detected nothing. When we came in the camper after plugging it in, we did smell something that smelled like something burning. It wasnt strong tho and quickly went away, but the tv and vac were gone. My husband and I were just talking about buying some kind of little detecter to check out the outlets. We wre getting tired of buying things to protect this problem child. Never had this in our Presidential. We have a little clock that was plugged in beside bed at the beach, it wasnt hurt then, and it still sits there running like a charm now. I feel its up to Heartland now to bring this thing in and find out whats going on. Especially with that little cracking noise I hear when air in bedroom first comes on.
I am worried to close my eyes.Tammy

 

[wiredawgchief]

Tammy, your unit should have been protected from bad power/wiring coming into your RV with the two components you listed. Here is what I'm talking about plugging into to check each plug INSIDE your RV. <a href="http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-120-VAC-GFCI-Outlet-Tester-1-clam-5-clams-master-GFI-3501/202867890#.Ui0JiaMo600" target="_blank">http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-120-VAC-GFCI-Outlet-Tester-1-clam-5-clams-master-GFI-3501/202867890#.Ui0JiaMo600</a> It's less than ten dollars, easy to use, and would be interesting to see what you find. I emailed my claim today with photos and the report from Southern Plains Cummins/Onan. Let us know if you find anything. Ron

 

[tammyinwv]

Tammy, your unit should have been protected from bad power/wiring coming into your RV with the two components you listed. Here is what I'm talking about plugging into to check each plug INSIDE your RV. <a href="http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-120-VAC-GFCI-Outlet-Tester-1-clam-5-clams-master-GFI-3501/202867890#.Ui0JiaMo600" target="_blank">http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-Bender-120-VAC-GFCI-Outlet-Tester-1-clam-5-clams-master-GFI-3501/202867890#.Ui0JiaMo600</a> It's less than ten dollars, easy to use, and would be interesting to see what you find. I emailed my claim today with photos and the report from Southern Plains Cummins/Onan. Let us know if you find anything. Ron

Ron another probelm we brought into repair was our 5500 watt Cummins /Onan generator. It had a crack in the block and was blowing oil. The dealer said Onan wanted to just repair it, but the dealer talked them into replacing the whole generator. We tried it out today and it seemed to run OK. We have also plugged the clock into the bedroom tv outlet, and unplugged the camper and plugged it back in. Still nothing happened again. I will see if we can find that thing you sent the link for.
Tammy

 

[scottyb]

I have an electric wiring claim that I'm submitting to Heartland for reimbursement. At three days out of one-year warranty, we were camping under generator power when we heard a loud pop and no more generator power. I checked power at PD5200 transfer switch and was seeing 48.7VAC on both legs to neutral. I'm believing something failed in the generator, I took it to Onan, where they found burnt wiring in the junction box from the generator to the RV. The wiring splice had not been done properly and was arcing inside the junction box. Cost me $169. My biggest concern is there are other bad splices in the unit. I know the power panel gets hot, which Explore USA told me is normal. It is not normal. I have my unit back and before I plug into shore power, I'm going to check the back of the power panel. Heat can be connections that are not tight. Good luck with your situation and I'll start my own post to either say that Heartland is fair and reasonable with some quality control problems or that they are irresponsible turning out products with dangerous hazards. Ron

I discovered exactly the same thing on my unit. The wiring in the J-box was landed poorly and scorched. I am pretty sure that it was the cause of two ATS failures. HL was very responsive and sent me the 2nd ATS direct, so I wouldn't have to take it back to the dealer (long story). I think there has been at least one other person here that checked their's and found the same thing.

Tammy, you should have no more issues with power problems from the outside. You just need to make sure everything is right on the inside.