Bighorn NAME (Traveler)

[TravelTiger]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Also according to the website hiarachy, BigHorn Traveler is lower than a Gateway.

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[TomMontague]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Just received latest addition of Trailer Life magazine and see Heartland has a add for a Bighorn Traveler 5th wheel. Is this a new model in the Bighorn line up,an upgrade version,a downgrade version or just a rebrand of the current Bighorn name.No details or specs in the add.
thanks....

Good morning everyone. Sorry for the long absence. It's been a busy summer as many of you have noticed and have commented on. There are some exciting changes, additions, and upgrades coming within the Bighorn franchise. Which brings me to the topic of the Bighorn Traveler.

As you know I've been given the keys to the Bighorn franchise and have been asked not only to maintain the current level of production but to ultimately increase it. When I sat back and reviewed the two products I was given one thing was obvious. Bighorn is rolling and doing well and Oakmont was struggling a bit. So I had to ask myself why. It was clear to me after consulting with dealers, potential retail customers, and reviewing web data on the brand Oakmont - clearly not many people know of or research the brand Oakmont. People may end up buying an Oakmont but it wasn't something people we searching from the beginning.

In order for me to grow the brand I feel my first priority is to change the name to something we know works, a brand name that leads the industry, one we have spent millions on as a company. When the Bachelor wants to do a spin off show, do they name it Bobs Beach Party? NO, they name it the Bachelor Beach Party because they know fans of the Bachelor will watch. I've basically employed the same marketing strategy and it's working very well. Dealers who were Bighorn dealers who were not Oakmont dealers have signed up and have taken product. Afterall, 1/2 the battle is just getting inventory on dealers lots. Goal #1 accomplished.

Goal#2: Make the new Traveler worthy of carrying the Bighorn name so it ENHANCES the franchise. Product upgrades such as raised graphics, drop frame for large pass thru storage, quad aluminum steps, industry leading Mor-Ryde suspension on Dexter axles. On the inside we changed the wood color from a limiting greyish wood color to the same wood color as the full blown Bighorn. We upgraded to MCD night shades, we upgraded lino & carpet, we decreased the overall height to help with towing and overall weight. Solid surface backsplash, upgraded lighting and complete redesigns of all floor plans have been key to the early successes. We dropped the Oakmont all together and expanded the Bighorn franchise. The Traveler is not a Bighorn and isn't meant to be. There are significant construction, standard, and option differences that keep a wide price separation between the two.

For those of you worried about resale & trade-in value. This will do nothing but help. These values are based on several factors - options, floor plan, condition, what you originally paid for it, and the overall market for your unit all factor in to these values. The more popular the brand, the more people are looking for used versions, the more money they are worth. My goal is to not only maintain our current overall market standing but to increase it significantly by opening up the Bighorn brands to a much bigger section of the market. SOB ( MT ) has the best resale & trade value in the industry - not because they are built any better - its because they sell way more NEW than everyone else in the market and therefore there are also more people looking for used ones... This is what we envision for Bighorn as well.

My ultimate goal would be to expand the Bighorn franchise into Stick and Tin, Ultra-Lite & Mid-Profiles. How great would this scenario be:

John Q Public said " We bought a Bighorn Inspired stick & tin and loved it.. Then we moved to a Bighorn MAAX Ultra Lite when we purchased our new Tahoe. Then we owned a Bighorn Traveler for the bunks when the kids were still at home. Now that everyone is out of the house, my wife and I have decided to treat ourselves to a full blown Bighorn. We've spent our entire camping life in the Bighorn family of products and we couldn't be more happy with our decision."

I'm sharing with you some of my thoughts and visions for the Bighorn franchise. In no way has this been talked about or even approved by management. These are just thoughts/visions/ideas I've been thinking about as I get used to my new position at Heartland.

As far as Bighorn goes - no major changes are scheduled for this year - the brand is doing well. Just small improvements across the board, new decors, some upgraded features like lighting and adding more ELITE slides to more floor plans on both the dinette & kitchen side of the coach. Some kitchen upgrades are coming as well and can be seen at the upcoming Hershey Show in PA next week.

I hope this helps shed some light on what's going on. Please don't think of it as Coke and New Coke, it's more like Coke & Diet Coke. One just has a few less ingredients than the other - they are made to coexist not replace one another.


Talk soon,
Tom

 

[wehavefun]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Sorry Tom, I will argue this with you all day and all night if need be, new coke failed!! The plans to have the Bighorn Silverado had people complaining about the cheapness of the Bighorn! I know people that left Heartland because of the Silverado, so will go the same with Bighorn Traveler.

The problem here is Bighorn has a good reputation, so instead of making it great, someone too lazy to go forth and make a fair name for a lower quality piece like Oakmont just steals the name and destroys everything with the name Bighorn attached!

Great move, NOT!

I don't often go off but you just pushed my buttons by admitting to being too darn lazy to push a new product line. Yup, I am upset! In a few weeks there will be a Landmark Special, it will come from the Sundance line! Wait and see.

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[SeattleLion]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

My two cents: First of all, people who are buying a $50K trailer are not so stupid that they will be duped into thinking one model is the same as others. Consider Chevy. They make the Corvette (called a "Chevy Corvette") and the Spark ("Chevy Spark"). No one expects a Spark to be the same as a Corvette.

We all know that the trailer industry loves to create brands. Heartland has a ton of them. I think it makes sense to stop creating new brand names and instead broaden the line of well respected ones like Bighorn. General Motors dropped Pontiac and Oldsmobile and kept Chevy. It's a lot cheaper to market the "Bighorn" brand and put a range of price points under it. My Bighorn isn't going to gain or lose value based on Heartland expanding the line.

In my opinion it is a smart move.

 

[Bones]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

My two cents: First of all, people who are buying a $50K trailer are not so stupid that they will be duped into thinking one model is the same as others. Consider Chevy. They make the Corvette (called a "Chevy Corvette") and the Spark ("Chevy Spark"). No one expects a Spark to be the same as a Corvette.

We all know that the trailer industry loves to create brands. Heartland has a ton of them. I think it makes sense to stop creating new brand names and instead broaden the line of well respected ones like Bighorn. General Motors dropped Pontiac and Oldsmobile and kept Chevy. It's a lot cheaper to market the "Bighorn" brand and put a range of price points under it. My Bighorn isn't going to gain or lose value based on Heartland expanding the line.

In my opinion it is a smart move.

Isn't that what the overall name of Heartland is? It is the Dodge Ford Chevy with different models under it.

 

[SeattleLion]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Isn't that what the overall name of Heartland is? It is the Dodge Ford Chevy with different models under it.

Actually, no. General Motors makes Chevy just as Heartland makes Bighorn.

 

[wehavefun]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Chevrolet makes the Corvette

Chevrolet made the Chevette

Chevrolet didn't pass the Chevette off as a Corvette. Heartland is trying to pass off the Bighorn Traveler as a Bighorn to boost sales. It's not a Heartland Traveler, they had with Oakmont. They want to bring the sales price up for the Traveler without changing the value. The point you raise about not devaluation of your current Bighorn, well that depends on how many people think they are buying a Bighorn, get less than Bighorn quality and then tell their friends about Bighorn being low quality. If that happens a few hundred or thousand times your Bighorn will loose value my friend.


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[codycarver]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

My two cents: First of all, people who are buying a $50K trailer are not so stupid that they will be duped into thinking one model is the same as others. Consider Chevy. They make the Corvette (called a "Chevy Corvette") and the Spark ("Chevy Spark"). No one expects a Spark to be the same as a Corvette.

We all know that the trailer industry loves to create brands. Heartland has a ton of them. I think it makes sense to stop creating new brand names and instead broaden the line of well respected ones like Bighorn. General Motors dropped Pontiac and Oldsmobile and kept Chevy. It's a lot cheaper to market the "Bighorn" brand and put a range of price points under it. My Bighorn isn't going to gain or lose value based on Heartland expanding the line.

In my opinion it is a smart move.

Although I agree with the point you are making, Im not sure that using a bankrupt auto maker is the best way to illustrate it.

 

[danemayer]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Soooooo,

There was a Bighorn Silverado not that long ago. And I'd guess there might have been similar marketing thoughts behind that name choice.

If the theory here is that sharing the brand name with a lesser product ruins the greater product, reducing value of the greater product, one might ask how much value was lost to Bighorn owners because of the Silverado.

Oddly, I don't recall anyone reporting that they lost money on their resale or trade because of the Silverado.

Did I miss something?

 

[Noofear]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Since Landmark already uses names instead of model numbers why wasn't this The Landmark Traveler? Isn't the Landmark as popular and as well-liked as the Bighorn? Doesn't it have the same if not better image of quality and workmanship?

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[Noofear]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Actually I think I know the answer to that you didn't want to cheapen The Landmark line

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[SLO]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Thanks Tom for the explanation. Hope the new naming works out good for Heartland. My degree wasn't in marketing so I have no opinion one way or the other. However it works out, I still LOVE my Bighorn


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[TomMontague]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. One thing I can tell you is LAZY I am not. Next time visit a rally or Rv show, look me up. I would love to sit down with you face to face and discuss the long list of things I'm responsible for on a daily basis. In addition to multi-million dollar franchise called Bighorn. The decisions I make directly effect the lives of 400+ Elkhart and surrounding area families. The product decisions I make every day have to work. Nothing I do is taken lightly or done because I'm taking the easy way out or because I'm lazy. I have a lot of people counting on me.

It took a tremendous amount of work to develop a brand new product worthy of the Bighorn name at the Oakmont price point. This is just the beginning. Now the real work starts with the marketing and advertising campaign that needs to be developed and launched. Training manuals and sales education has to happen at hundreds of retail locations around the country before January 1st and the start of show season.

This is hardly a new concept. Montana brought out the Legacy and Non Lagacy package 2 years ago and sales have sky rocketed. I believe it's a strong move and I'm confident the new Bighorn Traveler is considerably better than the previous Oakmont and Silverado.

Talk soon,

Tom

 

[Bones]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Tom,
Will the traveler be at the Hershey show?

 

[SNOKING]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. One thing I can tell you is LAZY I am not. Next time visit a rally or Rv show, look me up. I would love to sit down with you face to face and discuss the long list of things I'm responsible for on a daily basis. In addition to multi-million dollar franchise called Bighorn. The decisions I make directly effect the lives of 400+ Elkhart and surrounding area families. The product decisions I make every day have to work. Nothing I do is taken lightly or done because I'm taking the easy way out or because I'm lazy. I have a lot of people counting on me.

It took a tremendous amount of work to develop a brand new product worthy of the Bighorn name at the Oakmont price point. This is just the beginning. Now the real work starts with the marketing and advertising campaign that needs to be developed and launched. Training manuals and sales education has to happen at hundreds of retail locations around the country before January 1st and the start of show season.

This is hardly a new concept. Montana brought out the Legacy and Non Lagacy package 2 years ago and sales have sky rocketed. I believe it's a strong move and I'm confident the new Bighorn Traveler is considerably better than the previous Oakmont and Silverado.

Talk soon,

Tom

As a new owner of a 2017 BH3575el I feel a little betrayed. So you talk about your side of the table with 400+ lives, you ignore ours with thousands of people that by/bought your product. We did a lot of research and looking at just about everything out there is upper middle class 5th wheels before choosing the 3575el.

In my mind the lack of a rear cap is a big dividing factory in purchasing a trailer. If a manufacture wants to raise a model up in the customers eyes, then put a d@m rear cap on it. We would not even look at anything from Grand Design based on the lack of a rear cap. Montana's now have to be spec'd with legacy option to get a rear cap. La Mesa RV in Mesa, Az had Oakmonts on their lots, I would not walk in one.

With the industry trending away from rear caps, has anyone bothered to ask customers how they feel about this? It is much farther to have to ALWAYS walk around the front of a trailer because one can not stand to look at the cheap flat back. Without the rear cap it is NOT worthy of the Bighorn name.

Chris

 

[MP_CS]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

I for one am thrilled that this new model is coming out. I am probably the demographic that heartland is thinking of when they threw the idea of the traveler around. I will be in the market to upgrade in a few years and cannot spend 75-90k on a trailer that isn't used for full time. I was seriously looking into the Montana line as freinds we go with alot have them and they have so far been really nice units, so the fact that HL is going to have a model that will be basically directly comparable really pleases me. I also dont have any desire to have a molded rear cap as i dont like the looks of them but to each there own. I also think that resale for the upper line of bighorns wont be affected as most people searching for a high end used fifth wheel know what there looking at, i think everyone whos worried about that are worrying for no reason just my two cents though.

 

[JohnD]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

As a new owner of a 2017 BH3575el I feel a little betrayed. So you talk about your side of the table with 400+ lives, you ignore ours with thousands of people that by/bought your product. We did a lot of research and looking at just about everything out there is upper middle class 5th wheels before choosing the 3575el.

When I bought my new truck two years ago, there were a few features I passed up on as I felt the extra price was too steap.

When the 2016 models came out a year later, most of that stuff was included at no extra charge.

How is the Bighorn move any different?

With the industry trending away from rear caps, has anyone bothered to ask customers how they feel about this?

It is much farther to have to ALWAYS walk around the front of a trailer because one can not stand to look at the cheap flat back.

Without the rear cap it is NOT worthy of the Bighorn name.

Gee . . . thanks!

Now I have to go out and buy a new trailer!



To be honest, I really like having a rear bumper.


Actually, I'm more upset about the cheap window shade in that big window on the big cheap flat back!


Original shade from the factory . . . . . . . . . . Replacement shade under warranty

 

[wehavefun]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

MP_CS

Not trying to get anything going here, I said my peace. I just want to point out to you that they are building this unit right now, it's called the Oakmont, it is not a new line or new idea. They are just trying to get people's attention by using a good and trusted product line. This is where I have the major issue. It is NOT a Bighorn, please don't confuse it as one. It was tried before with the Bighorn Silverado. It only gave Bighorn a black eye. I am certainly not trying to insult anyone or any line that Heartland builds, I had a Sundance, had no problems I wanted to move up in quality, I bought a Bighorn.

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[TravelTiger]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

We looked at the Bighorn Traveler at the ExploreUSA lunch event, during the North Texas Rally in Canton this weekend.

I am not saying I am "for" this, but trying to explain the concept behind it.

The Traveler does not compare AT ALL to a BigHorn, but I think it is definitely an upgraded "look" compared to an Oakmont.

In this case, ExploreUSA, one of the largest dealer networks in Texas, carries Landmark, BigHorn, BigCountry, Gateway, Sundance and Prowler. I think they did carry Oakmont. Now they'll be carrying BigHorn Traveler. At this location, they only had the Mid-Bunk style Travelers, but they are also carrying the rear den plan.

I think if you see how different they are, you'd understand they aren't "dragging down" the name, but creating a trust-factor. If an un-educated consumer sees "BigHorn" and has seen many other "BigHorn" trailers in parks and on the road, or read about them in Trailer Life, there is brand recognition, which hopefully builds a bridge to future investigation.

Personally, I don't have a clue about any of the "levels" of Montana. But when I hear it's a "Montana" it creates a reaction specific to that brand. In my case, a negative one, because I've never liked their interiors.

 

[StrongJava]

Re: Bighorn. NAME

Hi Erika,

Can you provide some bullets about what you saw that is different between the full profile Traveler and the luxury Bighorn?

Thanks.

Tim

We looked at the Bighorn Traveler at the ExploreUSA lunch event, during the North Texas Rally in Canton this weekend.

I am not saying I am "for" this, but trying to explain the concept behind it.

The Traveler does not compare AT ALL to a BigHorn, but I think it is definitely an upgraded "look" compared to an Oakmont.

In this case, ExploreUSA, one of the largest dealer networks in Texas, carries Landmark, BigHorn, BigCountry, Gateway, Sundance and Prowler. I think they did carry Oakmont. Now they'll be carrying BigHorn Traveler. At this location, they only had the Mid-Bunk style Travelers, but they are also carrying the rear den plan.

I think if you see how different they are, you'd understand they aren't "dragging down" the name, but creating a trust-factor. If an un-educated consumer sees "BigHorn" and has seen many other "BigHorn" trailers in parks and on the road, or read about them in Trailer Life, there is brand recognition, which hopefully builds a bridge to future investigation.

Personally, I don't have a clue about any of the "levels" of Montana. But when I hear it's a "Montana" it creates a reaction specific to that brand. In my case, a negative one, because I've never liked their interiors.

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the explanation.

As someone who was waiting for the new Bighorns and hoping you would add a real desk back in (like is in my current 2008 3670RL), should I read from your note below that this is not happening in the 2017 line of floor plans?

Tim

Good morning everyone. Sorry for the long absence. It's been a busy summer as many of you have noticed and have commented on. There are some exciting changes, additions, and upgrades coming within the Bighorn franchise. Which brings me to the topic of the Bighorn Traveler.

As you know I've been given the keys to the Bighorn franchise and have been asked not only to maintain the current level of production but to ultimately increase it. When I sat back and reviewed the two products I was given one thing was obvious. Bighorn is rolling and doing well and Oakmont was struggling a bit. So I had to ask myself why. It was clear to me after consulting with dealers, potential retail customers, and reviewing web data on the brand Oakmont - clearly not many people know of or research the brand Oakmont. People may end up buying an Oakmont but it wasn't something people we searching from the beginning.

In order for me to grow the brand I feel my first priority is to change the name to something we know works, a brand name that leads the industry, one we have spent millions on as a company. When the Bachelor wants to do a spin off show, do they name it Bobs Beach Party? NO, they name it the Bachelor Beach Party because they know fans of the Bachelor will watch. I've basically employed the same marketing strategy and it's working very well. Dealers who were Bighorn dealers who were not Oakmont dealers have signed up and have taken product. Afterall, 1/2 the battle is just getting inventory on dealers lots. Goal #1 accomplished.

Goal#2: Make the new Traveler worthy of carrying the Bighorn name so it ENHANCES the franchise. Product upgrades such as raised graphics, drop frame for large pass thru storage, quad aluminum steps, industry leading Mor-Ryde suspension on Dexter axles. On the inside we changed the wood color from a limiting greyish wood color to the same wood color as the full blown Bighorn. We upgraded to MCD night shades, we upgraded lino & carpet, we decreased the overall height to help with towing and overall weight. Solid surface backsplash, upgraded lighting and complete redesigns of all floor plans have been key to the early successes. We dropped the Oakmont all together and expanded the Bighorn franchise. The Traveler is not a Bighorn and isn't meant to be. There are significant construction, standard, and option differences that keep a wide price separation between the two.

For those of you worried about resale & trade-in value. This will do nothing but help. These values are based on several factors - options, floor plan, condition, what you originally paid for it, and the overall market for your unit all factor in to these values. The more popular the brand, the more people are looking for used versions, the more money they are worth. My goal is to not only maintain our current overall market standing but to increase it significantly by opening up the Bighorn brands to a much bigger section of the market. SOB ( MT ) has the best resale & trade value in the industry - not because they are built any better - its because they sell way more NEW than everyone else in the market and therefore there are also more people looking for used ones... This is what we envision for Bighorn as well.

My ultimate goal would be to expand the Bighorn franchise into Stick and Tin, Ultra-Lite & Mid-Profiles. How great would this scenario be:

John Q Public said " We bought a Bighorn Inspired stick & tin and loved it.. Then we moved to a Bighorn MAAX Ultra Lite when we purchased our new Tahoe. Then we owned a Bighorn Traveler for the bunks when the kids were still at home. Now that everyone is out of the house, my wife and I have decided to treat ourselves to a full blown Bighorn. We've spent our entire camping life in the Bighorn family of products and we couldn't be more happy with our decision."

I'm sharing with you some of my thoughts and visions for the Bighorn franchise. In no way has this been talked about or even approved by management. These are just thoughts/visions/ideas I've been thinking about as I get used to my new position at Heartland.

As far as Bighorn goes - no major changes are scheduled for this year - the brand is doing well. Just small improvements across the board, new decors, some upgraded features like lighting and adding more ELITE slides to more floor plans on both the dinette & kitchen side of the coach. Some kitchen upgrades are coming as well and can be seen at the upcoming Hershey Show in PA next week.

I hope this helps shed some light on what's going on. Please don't think of it as Coke and New Coke, it's more like Coke & Diet Coke. One just has a few less ingredients than the other - they are made to coexist not replace one another.


Talk soon,
Tom