I am having the same problem with my 2011 Big Country 3450 TS.I cant lock up the brakes in a stone parking lot at 5 to 10 mph.I had them check the unit out and my dealer Reichart;s camping center in Hanover Pa said everything was fine.At the time i had a 2009 Silverado 2500 HD with the factory brake adjuster.I now have a 2011 Silverado 2500 HD with the factory brake adjuster and still cant slide the camper brakes.I drove from York Pa to Florida where i am at now and it can be very scary trying to stop from freeway speeds.I am heading back to York on March 30 and going back to my dealer to get it checked out again.My brakes are terrible compared to the other campers i had.Hope my dealer will fix the problem instead of telling me everything is fine like they did before.
Brakes
- Thread starter jbthepickle
- Start date
Hardrocker
Member
We are now back in Minnesota and the 5th wheel is at Noble RV in Owatonna. When I talked more with the dealer's service department, they started out by saying that the new Ford trucks do not supply enough voltage to the brakes to make them work effectively. I thought, "Here we go again, the trailer people will say it is the truck, and the truck people will say it is the trailer". I spliced leads into the trailer braking system and extended the wires into the cab. I then connected these leads to a multi-meter so that I could monitor brake system voltage while going down the road.
With the rig hooked up but not moving, applying the brakes manually with the brake controller provided 12.2 volts to the braking circuit. With the rig moving at 25 mph, applying the brakes with the manual controller would also provide over 12 volts to the braking circuit, but would result in only moderate braking effort from the camper. When moving at 30 mph, simulating an emergency stop with the rig (pressing on the brake pedal) also provided in excess of 12 volts to the braking circuit, again with only moderate response from the camper brakes.
This exercise demonstrated to me that the pickup brake controller is operating as expected, and is providing adequate voltage to the trailer brake system. However, when I got to Noble RV, the service manager refused to take a ride with me so that I could demonstrate that the voltage supplied to the trailer brakes was close to the maximum that could be expected from a 12 volt system. This led me to believe that the visit to the dealer was an exercise in futility, and alleged the same to the service manager. He assured me that they were concerned about the issue, and that they would check out the brakes by hooking up to one of their tow vehicles. I said that if they can get the brakes to operate correctly with one of their trucks, I would like to know what voltage was being supplied to the trailer braking system.
I left the 5th wheel there, returned home, and began drafting a waiver of liability form which will basically say that Heartland and Noble RV contend that the brakes on this trailer are operating as expected, and are in compliance with industry norms, and that they are not designed to actually stop the trailer, just gradually slow it down.
Now it is almost a week later and the trailer is still at Noble RV. They found that the brakes operate the same with their truck as with mine. The last I heard they had sent photos to Lippert (of what, I do not know) and were checking the resistance of the magnets to determine if one of them is shorted out.
I will keep you posted on how this all turns out.
With the rig hooked up but not moving, applying the brakes manually with the brake controller provided 12.2 volts to the braking circuit. With the rig moving at 25 mph, applying the brakes with the manual controller would also provide over 12 volts to the braking circuit, but would result in only moderate braking effort from the camper. When moving at 30 mph, simulating an emergency stop with the rig (pressing on the brake pedal) also provided in excess of 12 volts to the braking circuit, again with only moderate response from the camper brakes.
This exercise demonstrated to me that the pickup brake controller is operating as expected, and is providing adequate voltage to the trailer brake system. However, when I got to Noble RV, the service manager refused to take a ride with me so that I could demonstrate that the voltage supplied to the trailer brakes was close to the maximum that could be expected from a 12 volt system. This led me to believe that the visit to the dealer was an exercise in futility, and alleged the same to the service manager. He assured me that they were concerned about the issue, and that they would check out the brakes by hooking up to one of their tow vehicles. I said that if they can get the brakes to operate correctly with one of their trucks, I would like to know what voltage was being supplied to the trailer braking system.
I left the 5th wheel there, returned home, and began drafting a waiver of liability form which will basically say that Heartland and Noble RV contend that the brakes on this trailer are operating as expected, and are in compliance with industry norms, and that they are not designed to actually stop the trailer, just gradually slow it down.
Now it is almost a week later and the trailer is still at Noble RV. They found that the brakes operate the same with their truck as with mine. The last I heard they had sent photos to Lippert (of what, I do not know) and were checking the resistance of the magnets to determine if one of them is shorted out.
I will keep you posted on how this all turns out.
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Hardrocker
Member
Now two weeks later, the trailer is still at the dealer. At least they are not continuing with the "it's your pickup" rant.
We are waiting for new backing plates from Dexter. The tech measured the braking circuit resistance and found it to be 2.7 ohms, when the spec called for 3 ohms. I'm not sure that small difference is significant, but am hopeful that the problem will be resolved.
We are waiting for new backing plates from Dexter. The tech measured the braking circuit resistance and found it to be 2.7 ohms, when the spec called for 3 ohms. I'm not sure that small difference is significant, but am hopeful that the problem will be resolved.
TXBobcat
Fulltime
For those that have a Ford TV. I found out some time ago that the Ford brake controller will supply the necessary power to the electric brakes depending on the speed of the TV.
While in Austin a couple years ago I did not think I had brakes on my Bighorn. I adjusted the brakes and then had the DW get in the cab and when I spun the tire I had her step on the break peddle. Wheel would not stop. I had her use the manual control and the tire stopped instantly. Took the truck to a Ford dealer and had them check it out. After about 30min manager came out and told me everything was perfect. I told him I was not getting any breaking on my trailer when I pushed the break peddle when adjusting the trailer brakes. He came back later laughing. Said "I learn something everyday". The computer on the Ford controls how much power is sent to the brakes depending on the speed of the truck. The truck was sitting still so it wasn't moving and it sent no power to the trailer.
I hooked up to the trailer and hit the brake at a slow speed and the trailer stopped. You most likely will not skid the tires with a newer Ford. The brake system is controlled by the computer and the Anti Skid system. The Controller is intergrated with the braking system, while an addon is not.
If you are unsure about what I found out please go by your Ford dealer and talk to the people that work on the truck.
FWIW
BC
While in Austin a couple years ago I did not think I had brakes on my Bighorn. I adjusted the brakes and then had the DW get in the cab and when I spun the tire I had her step on the break peddle. Wheel would not stop. I had her use the manual control and the tire stopped instantly. Took the truck to a Ford dealer and had them check it out. After about 30min manager came out and told me everything was perfect. I told him I was not getting any breaking on my trailer when I pushed the break peddle when adjusting the trailer brakes. He came back later laughing. Said "I learn something everyday". The computer on the Ford controls how much power is sent to the brakes depending on the speed of the truck. The truck was sitting still so it wasn't moving and it sent no power to the trailer.
I hooked up to the trailer and hit the brake at a slow speed and the trailer stopped. You most likely will not skid the tires with a newer Ford. The brake system is controlled by the computer and the Anti Skid system. The Controller is intergrated with the braking system, while an addon is not.
If you are unsure about what I found out please go by your Ford dealer and talk to the people that work on the truck.
FWIW
BC
TXBobcat
Fulltime
Do a search on Ford TowCommand. I found a number of articles including the following:
Ford TowCommand
The optional factory installed Ford Motor Company "TowCommand" integrated TBC (Trailer Brake Controller) system is only available and compatible on the extra-heavy duty commercial Ford Super Duty line of trucks starting with the 2005 models. It is built and engineered jointly with Tekonsha who is famous for their Prodigy TBC. With adjustable +/- trailer braking gain in a digital readout from 0.0 (no trailer brakes) to 10.0 (full trailer braking) in 0.5 increments and a manual override lever (to test trailer braking action), the Ford 'built into the dash' TBC provides smooth braking even when pulling up to a 15,000 lb 4-axle conventional (receiver mounted) or 26,000 lb 4-axle 5th Wheel (bed/frame mounted) trailer. TowCommand being different from most aftermarket TBCs, ties into the trucks' computer and hydraulics, so it senses truck brake pressure and can apply trailer brakes as fast as the truck's brakes. Master Brake Systems 'BrakeSmart' TBC is the only other TBC that taps into the trucks hydraulic lines in modern trucks.
The TowCommand TBC is basically made of three major components; the in-dash TBC module, a special TowCommand master cylinder with a brake pressure transducer, and an activated PCM (Powertrain Control Module) parameter by a Ford dealer's NGS or WDS programming method. All 2005 and newer Ford Super Duty trucks are already pre-wired for the TBC from the factory, no matter if the TBC option was ordered and installed at the time of the trucks assembly or not.
Before ABS (Anti-lock Braking System) came to trucks in the 1980s, most TBCs were activated by the trucks' brake hydraulic action. In an emergency situation with the trucks ABS activated, Ford's TowCommand can automatically reduce the trailer brake pressure (gain) as it communicates with the truck's computer for faster reaction time with proportional trailer brake control, to prevent the trailer brakes from locking up even though trailers do not have ABS sensors. TowCommand will also tell you with an audible alarm and in the digital readout if your trailer wires and/or trailer disconnects from the truck. All these features will make towing a trailer in heavy traffic less hectic also. Next to the TowCommand is an empty storage tray or the $85 optional 4 AUX (auxiliary) toggle switches you can use for winches, snow plow, off-road lights, etc.
The only disadvantage, unlike aftermarket TBCs, you can not transfer it from one truck to the next. Another advantage, unlike aftermarket TBCs, you can pull into any Ford service center when on the road and have it serviced. The TowCommand is even covered by the standard bumper-to-bumper warranty as long as it is not discovered to be an actual trailer problem. The TowCommand has only been verified to be compatible with trailers having electric-actuated drum brakes (one to four axles) and not hydraulic surge or electric-over-hydraulic types.
BC
Ford TowCommand
The optional factory installed Ford Motor Company "TowCommand" integrated TBC (Trailer Brake Controller) system is only available and compatible on the extra-heavy duty commercial Ford Super Duty line of trucks starting with the 2005 models. It is built and engineered jointly with Tekonsha who is famous for their Prodigy TBC. With adjustable +/- trailer braking gain in a digital readout from 0.0 (no trailer brakes) to 10.0 (full trailer braking) in 0.5 increments and a manual override lever (to test trailer braking action), the Ford 'built into the dash' TBC provides smooth braking even when pulling up to a 15,000 lb 4-axle conventional (receiver mounted) or 26,000 lb 4-axle 5th Wheel (bed/frame mounted) trailer. TowCommand being different from most aftermarket TBCs, ties into the trucks' computer and hydraulics, so it senses truck brake pressure and can apply trailer brakes as fast as the truck's brakes. Master Brake Systems 'BrakeSmart' TBC is the only other TBC that taps into the trucks hydraulic lines in modern trucks.
The TowCommand TBC is basically made of three major components; the in-dash TBC module, a special TowCommand master cylinder with a brake pressure transducer, and an activated PCM (Powertrain Control Module) parameter by a Ford dealer's NGS or WDS programming method. All 2005 and newer Ford Super Duty trucks are already pre-wired for the TBC from the factory, no matter if the TBC option was ordered and installed at the time of the trucks assembly or not.
Before ABS (Anti-lock Braking System) came to trucks in the 1980s, most TBCs were activated by the trucks' brake hydraulic action. In an emergency situation with the trucks ABS activated, Ford's TowCommand can automatically reduce the trailer brake pressure (gain) as it communicates with the truck's computer for faster reaction time with proportional trailer brake control, to prevent the trailer brakes from locking up even though trailers do not have ABS sensors. TowCommand will also tell you with an audible alarm and in the digital readout if your trailer wires and/or trailer disconnects from the truck. All these features will make towing a trailer in heavy traffic less hectic also. Next to the TowCommand is an empty storage tray or the $85 optional 4 AUX (auxiliary) toggle switches you can use for winches, snow plow, off-road lights, etc.
The only disadvantage, unlike aftermarket TBCs, you can not transfer it from one truck to the next. Another advantage, unlike aftermarket TBCs, you can pull into any Ford service center when on the road and have it serviced. The TowCommand is even covered by the standard bumper-to-bumper warranty as long as it is not discovered to be an actual trailer problem. The TowCommand has only been verified to be compatible with trailers having electric-actuated drum brakes (one to four axles) and not hydraulic surge or electric-over-hydraulic types.
BC
TandT
Founding Utah Chapter Leaders-Retired
I have had all my brakes replaced under warranty for the same reasons you have stated. When I dropped off my 31' SOB fiver I could skid the wheels easily. Prodigy brake controller.
Upon picking up the BH, I could not feel any resistance, or hold the rig back with the manual lever. Dealer "adjusted" them. (Come to find out later, they were self adjusting brakes.)
In trying to stop the BH rig the brakes overheated, threw two shoes, blew grease all over several other shoes. I had NO trailer brakes. Had only 500 miles on my BH. No one had any explaination for it. The wheels got so hot at some point, the paint was burned off the drums! My truck was stopping the whole rig, which I'm sure shortened the life of the truck brakes. I have a sneaking suspicion the transporter may have blown them during delivery, since I never saw or smelled anything. DW has followed me in a car for much of our journrey and saw nothing.
Spent four days at the dealership while the issue was resolved, along with some other minor issues.
Heartland and Dexter replaced some components at no charge. I now have almost all new brake components, but the trailer STILL DOES NOT STOP TO MY LIKING. I can not skid the tires with the manual brake box level AT ALL. Even in gravel. I do feel some resistance now when braking, but I am still not sure I have enough brakes for the trailer.
We are heading from our regular desert spot here in SoCal in a few weeks to start motoring back towards Indiana in June. I hope we make it without any further problems.
Love our BH otherwise, but the brake issue has been a bit unsettling.
Stay tuned..................
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Hardrocker
Member
I have been searching for standards that would apply to rv trailer brakes, and have not had much luck.
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Part 571 appears to be the place where rv brakes would be addressed, and braking standards are addressed in that standard, but they do not include rv brakes in that section (135).
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/fmvss/index.html#SN105
Minnesota law requires -- "A trailer with a gross weight of 3000 lbs GVW or more, or a gross weight that exceeds the empty weight of the towing vehicle, must be equipped with brakes that can adequately control the movement of and stop and hold the trailer." This is a pretty lame standard. What does adequately mean? A vehicle going 60 mph on a level road will eventually stop just due to air and rolling resistance.
Does anyone have access to RVIA standards (NFPA 1192 appears to be one, but it may not address braking systems)?
Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, Part 571 appears to be the place where rv brakes would be addressed, and braking standards are addressed in that standard, but they do not include rv brakes in that section (135).
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/fmvss/index.html#SN105
Minnesota law requires -- "A trailer with a gross weight of 3000 lbs GVW or more, or a gross weight that exceeds the empty weight of the towing vehicle, must be equipped with brakes that can adequately control the movement of and stop and hold the trailer." This is a pretty lame standard. What does adequately mean? A vehicle going 60 mph on a level road will eventually stop just due to air and rolling resistance.
Does anyone have access to RVIA standards (NFPA 1192 appears to be one, but it may not address braking systems)?
Here is something I copied from the Dexter Web Site......
BRAKES - Why aren't my electric brakes working?
Most electric brake malfunctions that cannot be corrected by either brake adjustment or synchronization adjustments of your brake controller can generally be traced to electrical system failure. Mechanical causes are ordinarily obvious (i.e. bent/broken parts, worn out linings or magnets, seized lever arms or shoes, scored drums, etc.). A voltmeter and ammeter will be essential tools for proper troubleshooting of electric brakes. NOTE: After replacing your brake shoes and magnets you will experience a decrease in braking performance until the components have worn into the drum and finished the burnishing process. This process requires many stops to bring the new shoe's performance back to normal. This may take more than 100 stops to finish this break-in period with stops of 20 mph decreases in speed. Please refer to the Dexter Service Manual for detailed troubleshooting instructions to further determine the cause of poor brake performance.
BRAKES - Why can't I lock and slide my electric brakes?
On an unloaded trailer, you may be able to lock up your brakes if your electric brake controller is supplying full amperage to the brakes. When loaded to capacity, you may not be able to lock your brakes as electric brakes are designed to slow the trailer at a controlled rate, and not designed to lock up the wheels on a fully loaded trailer. Our brakes are designed to meet all applicable safety standards. All of our brakes will perform better after numerous burnish stops to seat the brake linings to the drums.
This might be of some informational help for TANDT.
Also you might want to give Dexter a call about the self adjusting brakes. My bro's dealer told him that his Dexter brakes were self adjusting, but when he called Dexter to verify that, he was told that they do not use self adjusting brakes. Dunno, just something to consider.
Peace
Dave
BRAKES - Why aren't my electric brakes working?
Most electric brake malfunctions that cannot be corrected by either brake adjustment or synchronization adjustments of your brake controller can generally be traced to electrical system failure. Mechanical causes are ordinarily obvious (i.e. bent/broken parts, worn out linings or magnets, seized lever arms or shoes, scored drums, etc.). A voltmeter and ammeter will be essential tools for proper troubleshooting of electric brakes. NOTE: After replacing your brake shoes and magnets you will experience a decrease in braking performance until the components have worn into the drum and finished the burnishing process. This process requires many stops to bring the new shoe's performance back to normal. This may take more than 100 stops to finish this break-in period with stops of 20 mph decreases in speed. Please refer to the Dexter Service Manual for detailed troubleshooting instructions to further determine the cause of poor brake performance.
BRAKES - Why can't I lock and slide my electric brakes?
On an unloaded trailer, you may be able to lock up your brakes if your electric brake controller is supplying full amperage to the brakes. When loaded to capacity, you may not be able to lock your brakes as electric brakes are designed to slow the trailer at a controlled rate, and not designed to lock up the wheels on a fully loaded trailer. Our brakes are designed to meet all applicable safety standards. All of our brakes will perform better after numerous burnish stops to seat the brake linings to the drums.
This might be of some informational help for TANDT.
Also you might want to give Dexter a call about the self adjusting brakes. My bro's dealer told him that his Dexter brakes were self adjusting, but when he called Dexter to verify that, he was told that they do not use self adjusting brakes. Dunno, just something to consider.
Peace
Dave
I have a 2011 SD 3300 QS towed with a 2005 F250. I have the same problem/concern. I've never locked up the brakes.
Heartland or Dexter or Lippert, What is the standard? Regardless of brake controller, should the brakes lock up? If they're not designed to lock up, how do I know I have them set properly?
Too little gain - you don't stop. Too much gain, you overheat the brakes and you don't stop. Both cases have been covered in this thread. If max gain is ok, why do brake controllers have adjustable gain? or if you can't "over gain" the brakes (12vdc all the time), why don't the manuals recommend you set to maximum gain.
This is a trial lawyers class action dream. Hey, Heartland, your customer's are screaming for clarity.
I'm calling my dealer tomorrow.
Mouse
Heartland or Dexter or Lippert, What is the standard? Regardless of brake controller, should the brakes lock up? If they're not designed to lock up, how do I know I have them set properly?
Too little gain - you don't stop. Too much gain, you overheat the brakes and you don't stop. Both cases have been covered in this thread. If max gain is ok, why do brake controllers have adjustable gain? or if you can't "over gain" the brakes (12vdc all the time), why don't the manuals recommend you set to maximum gain.
This is a trial lawyers class action dream. Hey, Heartland, your customer's are screaming for clarity.
I'm calling my dealer tomorrow.
Mouse
We tow many different trailers at the farms/ranch. Towing a Titan FB the other night with a skid loader on board that weighs as much as the Augusta, we had several deer run across the road. The gain was set at 9 and we skidded both axles on the trailer we were towing while the anti lock on the F350 barely skidded the tires. We came within a few feet of the deer. Last year we hit one deer while in a full emergency stop with the Augusta behind the TV. Didn't lock the brakes until we were at about 15 mph (dry pavement) but slowed rapidly as it should. (have the 3 3/4 brakes 8 K axles) Ford has the best brake controller out there, way ahead of the competition. BTW, the HD grill guard saved the front of the F350 when we hit the deer and threw it across the road.
Hardrocker
Member
I retrieved the Sundance from Noble RV yesterday. Lippert (Dexter?) had provided new backing plates, complete with shoes and magnets, which Noble had installed. Noble service people had spent some time burnishing the brakes in accordance with Lippert's instructions, but the braking capability was not much improved. I suggested that they also replace the drums as a last ditch effort to make the brakes perform to my expectations. The service manager said he would look into it.
On the 40 mile trip home I continued to burnish the brakes (slow the rig by 20 mph applying only the trailer brakes, wait one mile and do it again). At first it seemed like the brakes were getting stronger, but then it seemed like they started to fade, so I waited two miles between each application. It was raining all the way home and by the time we arrived home some of the tires would slide on the greasy pavement at 20 mph. After I got home, the Noble service manager called and said that they could get new drums, but wanted to check for a loose green wire connection in the junction box. They will do that in a couple of weeks.
In the meantime I called the NHTSA in an attempt to determine the requirements for trailer braking.
http://stnw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/maninfo/newManf.pdf
The phone number for the NHTSA Equipment Division is 202-366-5322.
The first time I got voice mail and left a message to call me back. No return call came. I called again and spoke to a person who transferred me to another number where I again got voice mail and left a message. No call has yet been returned. I suggest that we all contact the NHTSA to clarify the requirements for trailer braking, and, if it turns out that they standard is that the brakes simply have to be able to gradually slow the trailer at highway speeds, which it appears is all the electric brakes on the Sundance are capable of doing, we should push for a higher standard.
In my estimation, the brakes on every on-highway vehicle should be capable of sliding the tires on dry pavement at highway speeds. As it now stands, RV trailers are likely the only vehicles on the highway whose brakes are not capable of providing minimal stopping distances. Minimal stopping distances are provided when the brakes can provide impending lock up of the wheels and is only limited by the static coefficient of friction between the tire and the road surface, and not by the incapability of the braking system to provide that stopping power.
On the 40 mile trip home I continued to burnish the brakes (slow the rig by 20 mph applying only the trailer brakes, wait one mile and do it again). At first it seemed like the brakes were getting stronger, but then it seemed like they started to fade, so I waited two miles between each application. It was raining all the way home and by the time we arrived home some of the tires would slide on the greasy pavement at 20 mph. After I got home, the Noble service manager called and said that they could get new drums, but wanted to check for a loose green wire connection in the junction box. They will do that in a couple of weeks.
In the meantime I called the NHTSA in an attempt to determine the requirements for trailer braking.
http://stnw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/maninfo/newManf.pdf
The phone number for the NHTSA Equipment Division is 202-366-5322.
The first time I got voice mail and left a message to call me back. No return call came. I called again and spoke to a person who transferred me to another number where I again got voice mail and left a message. No call has yet been returned. I suggest that we all contact the NHTSA to clarify the requirements for trailer braking, and, if it turns out that they standard is that the brakes simply have to be able to gradually slow the trailer at highway speeds, which it appears is all the electric brakes on the Sundance are capable of doing, we should push for a higher standard.
In my estimation, the brakes on every on-highway vehicle should be capable of sliding the tires on dry pavement at highway speeds. As it now stands, RV trailers are likely the only vehicles on the highway whose brakes are not capable of providing minimal stopping distances. Minimal stopping distances are provided when the brakes can provide impending lock up of the wheels and is only limited by the static coefficient of friction between the tire and the road surface, and not by the incapability of the braking system to provide that stopping power.
Hardrocker
Member
I finally got a return call from the enforcement division of NHTSA. Their representative told me that RV trailer brakes are not regulated except by individual state requirements.
As stated earlier in this thread, the brake standards for trailers in Minnesota are vague at best. Maybe, since trailers are sold in all 50 states, we need to find which state has an objective high standard and make sure the manufacturers meet that standard.
I do have a call in to the rule making division of NHTSA to discuss why there is no federal standard, and am waiting for a call back from that division.
As stated earlier in this thread, the brake standards for trailers in Minnesota are vague at best. Maybe, since trailers are sold in all 50 states, we need to find which state has an objective high standard and make sure the manufacturers meet that standard.
I do have a call in to the rule making division of NHTSA to discuss why there is no federal standard, and am waiting for a call back from that division.
Hardrocker
Member
I believe that objective, measurable standards are needed for the braking systems on towed RVs.
jmgratz
Original Owners Club Member
First of all let me say that I applaud your effort to make our highways safer by working to get a nationwide standard for trailer brakes. Then let me point out it seems like at this point trailer (RV) manufacturers are following the currently applicable standards and laws. You might find it easier looking into the RVIA rules concerning towable RVs braking standards. Remember all RV that carry the RVIA seal (and Heartland is one of them) abide by the RVIA rules. Do you know if NTHSA has standards for braking for trucks and autos? My opinion is we are all responsible for our own safety and we rely on the government to do too much for us. If we do things ourselves without government involvement then maybe government cost just might be able to be reduced. MHO.
Hardrocker
Member
NHTSA does have braking standards for trucks and autos, and they do have standards for trailers if they are equipped with air brakes.
Here are ths standards specified by RVIA:
RVIA Adopted Standards
12-Volt Electrical Requirements as specified by ANSI/RVIA 12V Low Voltage System Standard.
- Addresses the interfacing of the original chassis manufacturer and the RV manufacturer designs so as to be compatible.
- Overcurrent protection tables and conductor (wire) sizing and protection criteria.
- Requires listed lighting fixtures and other devices and appliances to be installed in accordance with manufacturer’s written instructions.
- Ground fault protected receptacles are specified where they are appropriate.
- Only listed electrical fixtures, appliances, equipment and materials that have been labeled by nationally recognized testing agencies are allowed.
- Dielectric tests are performed on the completed Recreation Vehicle to determine that the electrical system is installed correctly.
- Venting requirements for propane appliances are specified where necessary.
- Propane piping sizes are required to ensure a propane supply that provides for proper appliance performance.
- Over fill protection devices (OPD) are required on all installed propane containers.
- Propane line routing and accessibility - all joints in propane lines must be accessible for periodic leak testing and repair. Lines may not be installed in spaces where a nail or screw could pierce the line.
- Fuel burning appliances must be listed for RV use and labeled by a nationally recognized testing agency that has found the product to be suitable for its intended use.
- Sealed combustion and direct venting to the outside is required for all propane appliances, except for gas ranges, to provide for a complete separation of the combustion chamber from the interior atmosphere.
- Each propane system must be tested upon final assembly to determine proper leak-free performance.
- Interior finish flame spread limitations are required.
- Minimum exit facilities providing unobstructed travel to the outside of the vehicle must be available.
- Smoke alarms, fire extinguishers, CO detectors and LP-Gas detectors are mandate based on applicable criteria.
- Only listed plumbing devices, fixtures and appliances that have been labeled by nationally recognized testing agencies are allowed.
- Water distribution systems are sized to provide adequate flow rate and designed to prevent backflow contamination.
- Fixtures with traps and vents must be provided to protect against siphonage and back pressure.
- Vents to release gases from any waste holding tank must be provided.
Title 49 Part 571.105 applies to hydraulic and electric brake systems, but it does not include towable RVs.
§ 571.105 Standard No. 105; Hydraulic and electric brake systems.
S1. Scope. This standard specifies requirements for hydraulic and electric service brake systems, and associated parking brake systems.
S2. Purpose. The purpose of this standard is to insure safe braking performance under normal and emergency conditions.
S3. Application. This standard applies to multi-purpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses with a GVWR greater than 3,500 kilograms (7,716 pounds) that are equipped with hydraulic or electric brake systems.
Establishing a standard for towable RVs would be as simple as expanding the application of this standard to all trailers with a GVWR of 3,500 pounds or greater.
I note that you have disk brakes on your rig. When you assert that we are all responsible for our own safety, are you saying that if we want brakes on our trailers that will actually stop the trailer rather than just slow it gradually, we need to retrofit the electric brakes with electric/hydraulic disk brakes? Or, did your trailer come from the factory with disk brakes?
If the brakes on my Sundance cannot be made to provide maximum braking effort (ie. be capable of sliding the tires at any speed -- pretty much like every other vehicle I own), I will retrofit disk brakes with an electric/hydraulic actuator, which will cost me around $2,000, but should I have to do that to obtain satisfactory braking on a brand new unit?
Even though I live in the People's Republic of Minnesota, I am no fan of large or expanded government (I am actually a fan of Ron Paul and am glad to see that he has entered the race but don't think he has much of a chance), but extending the existing 571.105 braking standard to towable RVs shouldn't increase our deficit by more than a few $billion.
jmgratz
Original Owners Club Member
Thanks for the rules. It was informative. Just remember no regulation is worth the paper it is written on without some sort of enforcement mechanism. So how much is the 'braking police' going to cost? Part of the solution is for states to require annual safety inspections on trailers. Texas does, even though many RV owners don't get them inspected. We do and part of the inspection is checking the braking system that it will hold the tow vehicle and trailer without using the tow vehicle brakes. If it will not then it fails the inspection. BTW if you are registered in Texas and do not have a Texas safety inspection sticker on your fifth wheel you can get a citation (ticket) for that violation.
jpajax
Well-known member
If you have a mandated State or Fed. rules on RV brakes you may be having to go through DOT truck stops. I think that the mass majority of those who tow RV's are safe and take care of there equipment and thanks for the one's that post on this site for being to our att. of problems to look out for.
ChopperBill
Well-known member
I just got ours back from an independent trailer dealer that installed my wet bolt kit. I asked him to check the brakes and axle clamps. Mine is the last of the Lipperts. It took over 40 clicks to tighten the brakes up and 10 clicks to back 'em off to where the wont drag too much. Said they were way out of round. Told me to do the burnish trick like I did with our "06". They were a lot better after the adjustment and I haven't done the burnish thing yet. They are still a grade above poor. I asked him what was the best brake. He put Dexter clear at the top and Alko (sp) just below. Lippert was way at the bottom. He can put on Dexter backing plates with brakes for about $70 each. May do that if the burnish thing doesn't work as well as the "06" did. Wont do warranty because of the hassle and Lipperts will just be put back on anyway. Heartland is doing the right thing by going to Dexter so you got to give them some credit. Just wish they would have done it a few serial numbers sooner.
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