billyjoeraybob
South Carolina Chapter Leaders-Retired
Nobody has mentioned the MorRyde Rubber Pin Box. I don't have one, but have heard many positive reviews. Input on this one guys?
Chucking with towing vehicle
- Thread starter Perry521
- Start date
I have the MR pinbox. I can see it working. Does it "eliminate" chucking? No - nothing can completely eliminate it. But the MR pinbox does help.
I remember years ago, I had the Trailair pinbox with the Triglide lower jaw. That thing worked great (until I broke it).
I wouldn't mind trying the LCI FlexAir but wonder if it would be overkill with my TS3 air hitch.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
I'm sorry this is so long, and possibly elementary for some, but I hope it is a good refresher for some, and possibly informative for others.
IMHO you cannot eliminate chucking, BUT you can mitigate it to the extent that it is not noticeable unless the road surface is just unreasonable, even then you can at least mitigate that to the point that it is not destroying your rig, and making the ride so uncomfortable that you can't tolerate it. I need not delve into the fact that some chucking events are down right dangerous, and by dealing with the largest part of chucking you will defacto mitigate the dangers too.
Ponder the fact that you can ultimately eliminate chucking by stopping your rig. Zero energy in, zero energy to disperse. Ultimately the energy that is shocking your truck and trailer originates in the fuel tank of your tow vehicle, as it is converted from fuel to heat energy, it produces the work that moves your truck and trailer down the road, when some of the energy of momentum is redirected because of an upset, it results in chucking. That energy is dispersed in wear and tear, poor ride, dishes rattling, and blinds shaking around in your rig. It is all dispersed through the frames of both vehicle, and we all know how delicate a trailer frame can be. Ultimately the energy of a chucking event is dispersed as heat, somewhere somehow. So it is important to redirect that energy away from where ever it is going, whether it is shaking your blinds, moving pots and pans, or wearing out your suspension components through friction and the heat that is produced by friction. Controlling chucking is controlling heat energy. Channel that energy to where you want it to go,
Chucking comes from the tow vehicle being upset by something in the road surface or an action of the tow vehicle, and a corresponding upset in the trailer just fractions of a second behind that of the tow vehicle. When the tow vehicle axles encounter the event, they begin working to stabilize the tow vehicle, but fractions of a second later they have to include the work of stabilizing the trailers upset transmitted to the tow vehicle through the hitch. Since they are connected at the hitch chucking manifest itself there, but in reality the energy is maintained in the tow vehicle and the trailer until it can be dispersed into heat energy. This happens over the duration of the chucking event. A primary chucking event is exacerbated by a second event if one exist. The more frequent and intense the upset, the worse the chucking is.
Chucking is shock load energy detectable in the tow vehicle being dispersed by converting it into heat energy. A chucking event diminishes over time without any mitigating equipment, but the energy is dispersed too quickly resulting in chucking. Chucking is the manifestation of too much energy being dispersed in too short of a period, manifesting in discomfort for passengers, and noise at the hitch, broken frames, springs, and dishes.
IMHO, the way to mitigate chucking is to spread out the dispersion of the energy from the upsets that are causing the chucking, over a longer period of time. Methods to do this are limited but they are effective. First we must dampen the shock on the tow vehicle springs. We do that by having good shock absorbers. Their inherent nature is to dampen the energy of spring oscillations in your over time by changing the energy to heat which is later dispersed. So IMHO shocks are at the forefront of mitigating chucking. Secondly, shocks on the trailer are equally important to the extent that they can be, given the design of many trailer shock mounts. Maintaining both tow vehicle and trailer suspensions are critical in primary defense to chucking. Loose or worn spring attachment points are contributors to chucking, and attempts to mitigate chucking are impeded by worn suspension components in both the tow vehicle and trailer. The jaws of the 5th wheel must be properly maintained and adjusted also.
The next location we can mechanically dampen the shock load of upset events is the rear suspension of the tow vehicle. The installation of airbags on the rear axle produce the effect of enhancing the shock absorbers effect of converting shock energy into heat energy. It is a side effect of the airbag, but nonetheless is an effective side effect. When loaded, your OEM shock absorbers abilities pail compared to airbags in their ability to absorb and convert shock energy to heat energy where is can be dispersed over time.
Once all suspension components are tight, and properly maintained, and every effort to minimize upsets of the tow vehicle and trailer. Then the last but not least component is installed in order to disrupt the flow of energy between the trailer and the tow vehicle. Once again we use something to change or redirect the shock load energy into heat energy, and disperse it over time. Some 5th wheel systems use Timbrens, to accomplish this, other systems use airbags. The claim is that Timbrens are as effective as airbags but require less maintenance. I have no experience with Timbrens or other poly urethane dampeners, so I cannot verify or deny the claims, it seems plausible to me though. I use a Trailer Saver BD3 that has two airbags, and two shock absorbers. The effect is a system that converts the energy transmitted (back and forth) through the hitch, to heat energy which is dispersed over time. There are other designs beside the BD3, still yet, others use pin box systems that effectively accomplish the task in the same manner/theory.
IMHO, the information that I have outlined is the most effective way to mitigate, and perhaps ALMOST eliminate chucking events, besides slowing down, or just stopping altogether.
IMHO you cannot eliminate chucking, BUT you can mitigate it to the extent that it is not noticeable unless the road surface is just unreasonable, even then you can at least mitigate that to the point that it is not destroying your rig, and making the ride so uncomfortable that you can't tolerate it. I need not delve into the fact that some chucking events are down right dangerous, and by dealing with the largest part of chucking you will defacto mitigate the dangers too.
Ponder the fact that you can ultimately eliminate chucking by stopping your rig. Zero energy in, zero energy to disperse. Ultimately the energy that is shocking your truck and trailer originates in the fuel tank of your tow vehicle, as it is converted from fuel to heat energy, it produces the work that moves your truck and trailer down the road, when some of the energy of momentum is redirected because of an upset, it results in chucking. That energy is dispersed in wear and tear, poor ride, dishes rattling, and blinds shaking around in your rig. It is all dispersed through the frames of both vehicle, and we all know how delicate a trailer frame can be. Ultimately the energy of a chucking event is dispersed as heat, somewhere somehow. So it is important to redirect that energy away from where ever it is going, whether it is shaking your blinds, moving pots and pans, or wearing out your suspension components through friction and the heat that is produced by friction. Controlling chucking is controlling heat energy. Channel that energy to where you want it to go,
Chucking comes from the tow vehicle being upset by something in the road surface or an action of the tow vehicle, and a corresponding upset in the trailer just fractions of a second behind that of the tow vehicle. When the tow vehicle axles encounter the event, they begin working to stabilize the tow vehicle, but fractions of a second later they have to include the work of stabilizing the trailers upset transmitted to the tow vehicle through the hitch. Since they are connected at the hitch chucking manifest itself there, but in reality the energy is maintained in the tow vehicle and the trailer until it can be dispersed into heat energy. This happens over the duration of the chucking event. A primary chucking event is exacerbated by a second event if one exist. The more frequent and intense the upset, the worse the chucking is.
Chucking is shock load energy detectable in the tow vehicle being dispersed by converting it into heat energy. A chucking event diminishes over time without any mitigating equipment, but the energy is dispersed too quickly resulting in chucking. Chucking is the manifestation of too much energy being dispersed in too short of a period, manifesting in discomfort for passengers, and noise at the hitch, broken frames, springs, and dishes.
IMHO, the way to mitigate chucking is to spread out the dispersion of the energy from the upsets that are causing the chucking, over a longer period of time. Methods to do this are limited but they are effective. First we must dampen the shock on the tow vehicle springs. We do that by having good shock absorbers. Their inherent nature is to dampen the energy of spring oscillations in your over time by changing the energy to heat which is later dispersed. So IMHO shocks are at the forefront of mitigating chucking. Secondly, shocks on the trailer are equally important to the extent that they can be, given the design of many trailer shock mounts. Maintaining both tow vehicle and trailer suspensions are critical in primary defense to chucking. Loose or worn spring attachment points are contributors to chucking, and attempts to mitigate chucking are impeded by worn suspension components in both the tow vehicle and trailer. The jaws of the 5th wheel must be properly maintained and adjusted also.
The next location we can mechanically dampen the shock load of upset events is the rear suspension of the tow vehicle. The installation of airbags on the rear axle produce the effect of enhancing the shock absorbers effect of converting shock energy into heat energy. It is a side effect of the airbag, but nonetheless is an effective side effect. When loaded, your OEM shock absorbers abilities pail compared to airbags in their ability to absorb and convert shock energy to heat energy where is can be dispersed over time.
Once all suspension components are tight, and properly maintained, and every effort to minimize upsets of the tow vehicle and trailer. Then the last but not least component is installed in order to disrupt the flow of energy between the trailer and the tow vehicle. Once again we use something to change or redirect the shock load energy into heat energy, and disperse it over time. Some 5th wheel systems use Timbrens, to accomplish this, other systems use airbags. The claim is that Timbrens are as effective as airbags but require less maintenance. I have no experience with Timbrens or other poly urethane dampeners, so I cannot verify or deny the claims, it seems plausible to me though. I use a Trailer Saver BD3 that has two airbags, and two shock absorbers. The effect is a system that converts the energy transmitted (back and forth) through the hitch, to heat energy which is dispersed over time. There are other designs beside the BD3, still yet, others use pin box systems that effectively accomplish the task in the same manner/theory.
IMHO, the information that I have outlined is the most effective way to mitigate, and perhaps ALMOST eliminate chucking events, besides slowing down, or just stopping altogether.
LBR
Well-known member
Same here...the description of chucking was non existent with our new CY and TV on our maiden voyage of 1500 miles....one less thing to concern myself with.
SNOKING
Well-known member
I have long believed it has something to do with the distance between the truck axles and trailer axles. It would be interesting to change the length of the pin box on an unit that has the problem and see if it effects it.
To the person above talking about 5th wheel hitch placement. With modern diesel power pickups the front axle is very heavy, think 4500-5500 pound range. Hitch centered, 2" behind or 2" in front of rear axle will make very little difference of the weight on the front axle.
Chris
To the person above talking about 5th wheel hitch placement. With modern diesel power pickups the front axle is very heavy, think 4500-5500 pound range. Hitch centered, 2" behind or 2" in front of rear axle will make very little difference of the weight on the front axle.
Chris
coram8
Active Member
I had a MR pinbox that I put on my Gateway. On the first voyage with it from West Texas to DisneyWorld, we made it to Baton Rouge, LA before it broke. That was in June and I am still trying to settle the issue with MR. I will post a full description once I get it resolved, but what I'll say now is that I have a FlexAir pinbox that I am happy with.
DirtyMax88
Well-known member
We had the option to add the MorRyde rubber pin box/hitch (i think it's standard on them now) when we ordered our Landmark, and we did. It seems to work very well. As we have had no problems with it, and you can see it move/work. It sucks that the person below had it break on them. We do have a small amount of chucking on really bad roads but for the most part, we have a pretty smooth ride. As I mentioned in another thread, we are going to be at the MorRyde facility in a few weeks, getting the IS and disc brakes set up. I would think the combination of a better suspension, and the MorRyde hitch, our 5er should just float on down the road. Since we will be there for this work, I'm going to see if they have upgraded/changed anything in the rubber pin box setup. I will say, I am also seeing more and more 5th wheels around with the MorRyde rubber pin box setup.
NewHopians
Well-known member
We are on our 6th fifth wheel rig and as they got bigger the chucking was felt more. I have replaced two stock pin boxes with the Flex Air Rota Flex. Have had a smooth ride each time. Just installed it on our 2017 Big Horn Traveler and will see how it goes on the maiden voyage next weekend. Love it
SNOKING
Well-known member
If you have not towed with the stock pin box how to you know that the Rota Flex changed anything?
I have had three 5th wheels and three different trucks. First 5th wheel and first and second truck, second 5th wheel and second and third truck. Third 5th wheel and third truck. All trailers had basic extended pin boxes and hitch was Hijacker Ultra 16K in first and second trucks, and B&W RVK3270 in third truck. Never had chucking! Color me lucky I guess. Chris
Trucks:
1993 RAM W250 4x4 Std Cab
2001.5 RAM 2500 4x4 Std Cab
2015 RAM 3500 CC SB SRW
NewHopians
Well-known member
Have had all trailers with stock pin boxes. But, the trailer we just traded for a Big Horn had the stock on it and we changed to the Rota Flex. It smoothed that one out on many trips to Phoenix for repairs. That is why we now have a Heartland. Can't wait to get it on the road other than from the dealer. We had chucking on all our pickups and really are confident with this one.
2015 Ford F-250 6.7 diesel crew cab 2wd. Current
2004 Ford F-250 6.0 diesel crew cab 2wd.
1997 Ford F-350 7.3 diesel crew cab dually. Wrecked when someone ran a stop sign and I "T" boned him pulling our Aluma scape.
Ford F-150s before that.
2015 Ford F-250 6.7 diesel crew cab 2wd. Current
2004 Ford F-250 6.0 diesel crew cab 2wd.
1997 Ford F-350 7.3 diesel crew cab dually. Wrecked when someone ran a stop sign and I "T" boned him pulling our Aluma scape.
Ford F-150s before that.
brianlajoie
Well-known member
I have a super glide hitch due to short box on my truck. There is an adjustable flange nut that eliminates chucking.
