Class A Non-commercial License Required in California
- Thread starter Lndeatr
- Start date
scottyb
Well-known member
Once again, it depends on the person you talk to or who's doing the testing. I took my driving test and the agent never looked at my rig or asked any questions about the truck's or the Cyclone's GVWR. He jumped in, I drove him around a few blocks and we were done. Maybe he just assumed because of it's size that it was over the limit.
pegmikef
Well-known member
yeah,that is probably true. The way they do it here, is you have to go inside with your paperwork, etc. and they schedule the test and then all the actual tester does is run the test as everything has already been checked out (e.g., weight thing, class A permit, etc.).
wdk450
Well-known member
Just another comment on the California test - You can't just go to your nearest DMV office to take the test. You have to go to one of a FEW (California is a geographically big state) special "commercial license testing centers" they have set up around the state specifically for testing Class A truck drivers.
TandT
Founding Utah Chapter Leaders-Retired
I have always looked at Trailer Life for towing laws, but this site seems even better.
Check your requirements here; http://towingworld.com/towinglaws.cfm. Trace
Check your requirements here; http://towingworld.com/towinglaws.cfm. Trace
wdk450
Well-known member
Well I took the class A Noncommercial tests today and passed with flying colors. The test consisted of a very detailed pre-trip inspection of the tow vehicle and the 5th wheel. Got dinged for not saying I would inspect the front windshield to see if it was broken (even though I said I would look at all the glass on the truck and trailer), and I didn't check to make sure there wasn't a gap in between the hitch and trailer (how do you get a gap when there is almost 3000 lbs pressure?). I aced the straightline backing but took 2 extra pullups on the alley docking. I normally stab it first try with no problem. I messed myself up because that give you about 6 lanes width instead of the normal 1 or 2 lanes that I am used to. I decided to make a real wide arc and that threw me off. You get 2 free pull ups and I thought you fail after that so after the first pull up I started overthinking it. After the second pullup I thought I was done but she kept waving me on. After I parked it, she told me I had 6 tries to do it. Only lost a few points. Then we drove all around West Sacramento. No problem there, 100%.
So I get my license and it says Class A/M1 and the only restriction is 71 "Class A restricted to towing single trailer coaches only, not for compensation - not valid for Class B vehicles". I expected it to show the Autotrans restriction and say something about being noncommercial. Until 2011 I had a Class B, to drive the jail transport bus (basically a tour bus) and it had the auto trans restriction (64). I had a question about how big of a tow vehicle I could drive. At the commercial testing facility they told me that I could drive anything as long as the GVWR of the tow vehicle was less than 26001 lbs and I was not for hire. So I call my CHP commercial buddy and he says that as long as I add the airbrake endorsement, I could drive a class 7 or 8 to tow my 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel. He also said that unless the license restricts me to an auto trans, I can drive a manual.
Now I am seriously considering looking for a good used tractor to pull my trailer. Just browsing for a few minutes, I see clean trucks, some with sleepers and some set up for 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheels available for high teens to $40,000. Currently I am close to the max with my F350 and if I max the trailer with fuel and water, motorcycle and the family, I am over the limit. A new dually pickup would run upwards of $50,000. Has anyone else considered this option?
So I get my license and it says Class A/M1 and the only restriction is 71 "Class A restricted to towing single trailer coaches only, not for compensation - not valid for Class B vehicles". I expected it to show the Autotrans restriction and say something about being noncommercial. Until 2011 I had a Class B, to drive the jail transport bus (basically a tour bus) and it had the auto trans restriction (64). I had a question about how big of a tow vehicle I could drive. At the commercial testing facility they told me that I could drive anything as long as the GVWR of the tow vehicle was less than 26001 lbs and I was not for hire. So I call my CHP commercial buddy and he says that as long as I add the airbrake endorsement, I could drive a class 7 or 8 to tow my 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel. He also said that unless the license restricts me to an auto trans, I can drive a manual.
Now I am seriously considering looking for a good used tractor to pull my trailer. Just browsing for a few minutes, I see clean trucks, some with sleepers and some set up for 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheels available for high teens to $40,000. Currently I am close to the max with my F350 and if I max the trailer with fuel and water, motorcycle and the family, I am over the limit. A new dually pickup would run upwards of $50,000. Has anyone else considered this option?
Mike, all you would really have to do is register your rig at 26001 and then you qualify. With that said I really don't think you want to pay the extra money to do so.
Biggest problem I have with getting a CDL when a non-CDL is not available is the fact you sign away many rights as part of the CDL licensing. I was talked out going that route for a amateur sports car hauler because getting a CDL and larger rig (26001) means you can be stopped without probable cause, drug tested and searched. Didn't want all that hassle so stayed below 26000 and didn't haul dangerous materials.
Biggest problem I have with getting a CDL when a non-CDL is not available is the fact you sign away many rights as part of the CDL licensing. I was talked out going that route for a amateur sports car hauler because getting a CDL and larger rig (26001) means you can be stopped without probable cause, drug tested and searched. Didn't want all that hassle so stayed below 26000 and didn't haul dangerous materials.
pegmikef
Well-known member
I am not really interested in getting the CDL unless I have to. I watched the process my son had to go through to get his class A CDL with tanker and HazMat endorsements and it was pretty extensive. Here in TX (and probably other places too) you have to have a background check, fingerprints, etc. to get the HazMat after you pass the test and best of all, you have to pay for it. No thanks, Mike
scottyb
Well-known member
These days, the background check is 60 days minimum. We have to put our fuel and lube truck drivers through it for the hazmat. There's no reason to have a CDL unless you need it. Too many requirements, physicals, and stipulations that go with it. I got my CDL at age 20 and kept it for 20 years, until they changed the rules. Since I no longer drove trucks, it was not worth the hassle or expense to keep it.
This only applies to the noncommercial Class A. The commercial Class A lets you drive Class B and Class C. Also my understanding going noncommercial does not subject you the traffic school disqualification, and the lower BAC for DUIs. Not that having any alcohol in your system while hurdling down the highway in a 25,000 lb missile.
In Jersey, I drive a 70,000 pound, 43' truck with air brakes for a career, with a basic passenger car license with no endorsements.
Per the commercial drivers license manual for New Jersey you need a Class B. I believe the A and B standards are federal regulations. See below.
CLASS B:
If you drive...
• Any vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 or more pounds; or,
• A vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds towing a trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating of 10,000 or less pounds; or,
• A bus with GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more designed to transport 16 or more passengers; including the driver...you need to have a Class B license. You also qualify to operate vehicles in Class C, provided you have the proper extra endorsements.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
Texas, cause someone asked about it. Plus that, it got me to thinking about it.....so here it goes Texas Class C is described in Sec. 521.083 and it very simply says that if it ain't specifically listed in Sec 521.081, Sec 521.082 or 521.083 you can drive it with a class C. And Texas reciprocates with other states meaning your DL is good here.
SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSESSec. 521.081.
Sec.521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing: (A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSESSec. 521.081.
Sec.521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing: (A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.162, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate: (1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; and(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.
Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.
I can see why it is so difficult to be a commercial enforcement officer, probably in any state. The Feds set a minimum standards for CDL requirements but each state can be more restrictive (like CA, unfortunately where I live). I wonder what other states have restrictions like CA.
Here is what the US DOT requirements are. I see nothing about 5th wheel or travel trailer weight limits other than the fross combined weight of 26001 lbs.
Classes of License:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.
Endorsements and Restrictions:
Endorsements:
Drivers who operate special types of CMVs must pass additional tests to obtain any of the following endorsements placed on their CDL:
Restrictions:
"L" On a full air brake vehicle, if a driver fails either the air brake component of the general knowledge test, or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, then the driver will have an "L" air brake restriction placed on their license.
"Z" If the driver takes the test in a vehicle with an air over hydraulic brake system, then they will have a "Z" no full air brake restriction placed on their license. In either case the driver is not authorized to operate a CMV equipped with air brakes.
"E" If the driver takes the Skills Test in a vehicle that has an automatic transmission, then an "E" no manual transmission restriction is placed on their license.
"O" If the driver takes the Skills Test in a Class A vehicle that has a pintle hook or other non-fifth wheel connection, they will have an "O" restriction placed on their license restricting them from driving any Class A vehicle with a fifth wheel connection.
"M" If a driver possesses a Class A CDL, but obtains his or her passenger or school bus endorsement in a Class B vehicle the State must place an "M" restriction indicating that the driver can only operate Class B and C passenger vehicle or school buses.
"N" If a driver possesses a Class B CDL, but obtains his or her passenger or school bus endorsement in a Class C vehicle; the State must place an "N" restriction indicating that the driver can only operate Class C passenger vehicle or school buses.
Here is what the US DOT requirements are. I see nothing about 5th wheel or travel trailer weight limits other than the fross combined weight of 26001 lbs.
Classes of License:
The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications:
Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR.
Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is transporting material that has been designated as hazardous under 49 U.S.C. 5103 and is required to be placarded under subpart F of 49 CFR Part 172 or is transporting any quantity of a material listed as a select agent or toxin in 42 CFR Part 73.
Endorsements and Restrictions:
Endorsements:
Drivers who operate special types of CMVs must pass additional tests to obtain any of the following endorsements placed on their CDL:
- T - Double/Triple Trailers (Knowledge test only)
- P - Passenger (Knowledge and Skills Tests)
- N - Tank vehicle (Knowledge test only)
- H - Hazardous materials (Knowledge test only)
- X - Combination of tank vehicle and hazardous materials endorsements
- S - School Bus (Knowledge and Skills Tests)
Restrictions:
"L" On a full air brake vehicle, if a driver fails either the air brake component of the general knowledge test, or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, then the driver will have an "L" air brake restriction placed on their license.
"Z" If the driver takes the test in a vehicle with an air over hydraulic brake system, then they will have a "Z" no full air brake restriction placed on their license. In either case the driver is not authorized to operate a CMV equipped with air brakes.
"E" If the driver takes the Skills Test in a vehicle that has an automatic transmission, then an "E" no manual transmission restriction is placed on their license.
"O" If the driver takes the Skills Test in a Class A vehicle that has a pintle hook or other non-fifth wheel connection, they will have an "O" restriction placed on their license restricting them from driving any Class A vehicle with a fifth wheel connection.
"M" If a driver possesses a Class A CDL, but obtains his or her passenger or school bus endorsement in a Class B vehicle the State must place an "M" restriction indicating that the driver can only operate Class B and C passenger vehicle or school buses.
"N" If a driver possesses a Class B CDL, but obtains his or her passenger or school bus endorsement in a Class C vehicle; the State must place an "N" restriction indicating that the driver can only operate Class C passenger vehicle or school buses.
Ladiver
Well-known member
I agree that it is VERY confusing. My Cyclone has a GVWR or 15,500, which puts me 500 pounds into Class A. I know many (if not all) of my friends with larger trailers are driving with Class C. Granted many of them have some sort of badge that might get them out of a little trouble. ;-) I decided I would get mine, just in case I was ever involved in an accident. You can bet the lawyers would jump all over an out of Class, unlicensed driver, regardless of actual fault.
I have already taken my test and got my "learners permit". The big problem now is that I still must have a Class A licensed driver with me. So, my dilema is if I were to get pulled over, do I play stupid and give my Class C, or do I say I am trying to be legal and give my Class A permit?
I would recommend anyone who falls into the category just get the license required. It really is not that difficult to pass the written test. I have yet to take the behind the wheel, so I can't comment on that. I just think it is better to protect yourself. We all have insurance, right????
I have already taken my test and got my "learners permit". The big problem now is that I still must have a Class A licensed driver with me. So, my dilema is if I were to get pulled over, do I play stupid and give my Class C, or do I say I am trying to be legal and give my Class A permit?
I would recommend anyone who falls into the category just get the license required. It really is not that difficult to pass the written test. I have yet to take the behind the wheel, so I can't comment on that. I just think it is better to protect yourself. We all have insurance, right????
Mizmary
Well-known member
This thread has made me be glad to be licesned in Nebraska. Where RVs are exempt from all of that. Same with South Dakota. We are trying to decide where to retire when the hubby gets out of the service. It has been between South Dakota and Texas. They are pretty equally matched but South Dakota is winning.
