Continued Errors by Heartland

[Greengas]

Hi

Back when I took delivery of my RV there were a multitude of issues which were the direct result of very poor quality control on the part of HL. I posted threads about the issues as I found them. It was a battle with HL getting them to authorize actual repairs versus quick fix work. I left my RV with Camping World for a month to get the stuff done. But at the end of that time, the majority of the work had just been authorized (thanks to Ian at HL for stepping in and working that). What remained to be done was to replace just about all the fascia and address the sub floor problems including replacing the linoleum. It was agreed upon that CW would order all the necessary parts and I would bring the RV back to CW in March for the work to be done. The parts all came in during October and CW left the boxes closed to prevent any damage. I brought my RV back to CW a week ago. Today I got a call from CW saying that all the fascia and the linoleum was wrong. None of it matched what was in the RV. Funny, I thought that all the Landmarks assembled at the same time had the same stuff. It sure seemed that way when I went looking at other RV's during the past few months. Now, I know CW sent photos, but I also sent photos so I really don't see how this mistake could have happened. But wait, we are talking about the same company that put my RV together in the first place and did things like cut right through the Black water Flush Anti-siphon valve among other mistakes. This is really getting old. I know I can't just ask for my money back but I'm at that point. I was hoping that my issues were isolated, then I read the latest edition of Trailer Life and it seems that at least one other has had the same type of Quality Control problems along with all the others that have posted their frustration here and on other forums.

I know I've been told by folks on this forum to stay positive and that once I make a point it is against forum policy to keep hammering at it. But I will just say this one more time. As long as owners of RV's (regardless of brand) keep accepting poor quality control from the manufacturer then the RV industry will never rise to the level of quality expected when you lay down this much money. If you purchased a Mercedes for 80k and there were screws missing in the panels would you just shrug your shoulders and say, well, that's the way it is or would you demand that the problem be fixed. I know, the manufacturer does not make many of the components, but in my case all the problems were the direct result of unbelievably shoddy work by HL no blame can be placed anywhere else.

On the positive side, Ian at HL has been very responsive to my e-mails. I sent him one today explaining the problem and I hope HL will step up and overnight ship the parts. I made plans to use my RV starting weekend of the 11th of April. I figured with all the parts in place that would allow plenty of time for CW to get the job done. Now my plans are in limbo.

Ok, off my soap box now.

 

[DocFather]

Ron, I totally agree with you. When I purchased my 4100 last July, I was surprised at the lack of "thoroughness" in the completion of the final product. I had the advantage of buying right off the dealership's lot and any obvious failures were absent. HL did authorize any repairs/replacements in a timely manner but the numerous deficiencies had me scratching my head. As a physician for 40 years, had I screwed up the way my unit and those I read about on here made it through production, I would have spent my career in malpractice court.

Having said that, I am sure HL will get it right.

 

[Hunter11]

Post like this worry me with a new Landmark on order. Our current unit has had problems since we bought it new 7 years ago and it has taken us a long time to get to the point of ordering a new unit for fear of getting another unit like we have now. I sure hope we are wrong and we plan on going over the new one with a fine tooth comb before we head home with it.

I have read on the forum about some people having issues with water leaks, have those issues been resolved or are people still having those problems?

 

[DocFather]

Post like this worry me with a new Landmark on order. Our current unit has had problems since we bought it new 7 years ago and it has taken us a long time to get to the point of ordering a new unit for fear of getting another unit like we have now. I sure hope we are wrong and we plan on going over the new one with a fine tooth comb before we head home with it.

I have read on the forum about some people having issues with water leaks, have those issues been resolved or are people still having those problems?

That is the common sense approach. To not take delivery or pay the balance due until it is all taken care of. Quite often we already have a trip planned and that can conflict with common sense.

 

[Greengas]

Post like this worry me with a new Landmark on order. Our current unit has had problems since we bought it new 7 years ago and it has taken us a long time to get to the point of ordering a new unit for fear of getting another unit like we have now. I sure hope we are wrong and we plan on going over the new one with a fine tooth comb before we head home with it.

I have read on the forum about some people having issues with water leaks, have those issues been resolved or are people still having those problems?

Do a thorough PDI. We thought we did but we never bothered to check the black tank flush. Had we done that it would have flooded right there instead the first night out. Be picky. If something does not fit just right point it out. Don't get trapped into the "well, its small and we can just fix that ourselves" mode. Run water for a while through every faucet. Dump the tanks. If the dealer says they do not have a sewer hook up, remind them that all that should be in the tanks is plain water so what is the problem with dumping it right there? Get on top of the RV (our dealer told me we could not go up there for insurance reasons and we should have challenged it but...) and make sure everything works. Turn the handle for the TV Antenna and make sure someone is outside so they can see that the antenna is turning. Bring hangers with you to make sure that the hanger rods in the closet are in the right location (you should be able to close the closet doors without hitting the hangers). Have them inflate the air mattress and let it sit a bit to make sure there are no leaks. Bring a small lamp with you so you can check every outlet. Have the dealer lower the spare tire and remove it so you can make sure it is good and that the device for lowering it works. Check to make sure that all the plumbing under the sinks are tight and don't leak when you run water. Speaking of running water, plug up the sink, and put a good amount of water in it, then pull the plug and watch for leaks. One way to catch small leaks is to put a few pieces of paper towel under the sink. That way, even a drop or two will show up. Throw every switch to make sure they work. Find out what lights run on the 12v system and make sure they work. Check the battery cutoff and make sure that when it says off it means off. Pull out the 50amp cord and then rewind it so you are sure that device works. Have the dealer open up the back wall and show you where the water pump is. To be nice to the dealer, send them the list of what you are going to do during the PDI. Make sure they know you expect full water and electric hook up and that you will be dumping the fresh water from the holding tanks to make sure the dump system works. Maybe, if you let them know in advance, they will run the list themselves and that way find any problems before you do.

Ok, that is a long enough list. Stick to your guns and never accept anything other than what you would expect from such an expensive vehicle. Be prepared to leave your RV at the dealer until they fix everything. That means other than a one night shake down, do not make any plans for using the RV until you are confident that it is the way it should be.

Good Luck!

 

[aatauses]

Sorry to hear of all your problems. We have dealt with Ian in the past and he has been very good about resolving issues. It seems funny that your parts were not correct--the reason I say this is a few weeks ago I had to replace the shower tank. I called HL asking about repairs vs a new tank--they assured me with the VIN number a new tank would be custom made for my unit and ALL the fittings would be exact---and they were perfect (I had an earlier post stating the good customer service.
Hopefully you will get this behind you and be on your way to an enjoyable RV life.
al
currently in surprise, AZ

 

[TravelTiger]

Do a thorough PDI. We thought we did but we never bothered to check the black tank flush. Had we done that it would have flooded right there instead the first night out. Be picky. If something does not fit just right point it out. Don't get trapped into the "well, its small and we can just fix that ourselves" mode. Run water for a while through every faucet. Dump the tanks. If the dealer says they do not have a sewer hook up, remind them that all that should be in the tanks is plain water so what is the problem with dumping it right there? Get on top of the RV (our dealer told me we could not go up there for insurance reasons and we should have challenged it but...) and make sure everything works. Turn the handle for the TV Antenna and make sure someone is outside so they can see that the antenna is turning. Bring hangers with you to make sure that the hanger rods in the closet are in the right location (you should be able to close the closet doors without hitting the hangers). Have them inflate the air mattress and let it sit a bit to make sure there are no leaks. Bring a small lamp with you so you can check every outlet. Have the dealer lower the spare tire and remove it so you can make sure it is good and that the device for lowering it works. Check to make sure that all the plumbing under the sinks are tight and don't leak when you run water. Speaking of running water, plug up the sink, and put a good amount of water in it, then pull the plug and watch for leaks. One way to catch small leaks is to put a few pieces of paper towel under the sink. That way, even a drop or two will show up. Throw every switch to make sure they work. Find out what lights run on the 12v system and make sure they work. Check the battery cutoff and make sure that when it says off it means off. Pull out the 50amp cord and then rewind it so you are sure that device works. Have the dealer open up the back wall and show you where the water pump is. To be nice to the dealer, send them the list of what you are going to do during the PDI. Make sure they know you expect full water and electric hook up and that you will be dumping the fresh water from the holding tanks to make sure the dump system works. Maybe, if you let them know in advance, they will run the list themselves and that way find any problems before you do.

Ok, that is a long enough list. Stick to your guns and never accept anything other than what you would expect from such an expensive vehicle. Be prepared to leave your RV at the dealer until they fix everything. That means other than a one night shake down, do not make any plans for using the RV until you are confident that it is the way it should be.

Good Luck!

Great advice! If everyone buying an RV did this, I believe the tide would turn in poor quality being "good enough".




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[JohnDar]

If the first time the dealer looks over the rig is when you show up to inspect it, then there are probably going to be a number of things that start to accumulate into making an unhappy customer who questions their sanity in purchasing it. For us, back when, the dealer had it hooked to power and water, sitting over a floor drain inside the building. And it was obvious that they had already run all systems. During our PDI, the tech did monkey see/monkey do with me on everything and everything worked. They had already identified that the dining table had some damage and ordered a replacement, which they installed a couple of weeks later at our convenience. Some other minor things were corrected on the spot.

While Heartland can certainly up their game on QA/QC, a lot of the customer dissatisfiers could be eliminated by the dealer inspecting the rig before the customer even sees it.

Once again a shout out to General RV of Birch Run. Too bad they decided to drop the Heartland lines.

 

[JohnD]

Sorry to hear of your problems . . .

Our issues have been relatively minor compared to many that I've read about here, but after a year and a half I'm still having the same old issues that my dealership just doesn't seem interested in fixing.

Now they keep telling me that my warranty is up, and don't want to fix my issues right!

Unless I'm willing to pay them for it . . .

Thats OK . . .

Now that my warranty is up, I just won't use them anymore for any service that I might need . . .

And when I win the Powerball . . . they sure won't get my next RV purchase!

 

[JohnD]

Post like this worry me with a new Landmark on order. Our current unit has had problems since we bought it new 7 years ago and it has taken us a long time to get to the point of ordering a new unit for fear of getting another unit like we have now. I sure hope we are wrong and we plan on going over the new one with a fine tooth comb before we head home with it.

I have read on the forum about some people having issues with water leaks, have those issues been resolved or are people still having those problems?

In case you haven't yet . . . call Heartland TODAY and tell them NOT to put TowMax (AKA - BlowMax) tires on your preordered rig!

 

[boatto5er]

Fortunately, unless something has changed, the Landmarks come with the GY G614s.


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[Hunter11]

In case you haven't yet . . . call Heartland TODAY and tell them NOT to put TowMax (AKA - BlowMax) tires on your preordered rig!

This is not an issue since we ordered with disc brakes, upgraded axles and 17.5 Goodyear G114 H rated tires

We live in central Texas and are buying the Landmark from Great Lakes RV Center in Indiana so we will have a pretty good trip to pick it up. They have told us we can stay a couple of nights on their lot to make sure everything is okay before we head back. I tried to buy local from Explore USA but the two locations near us never found the time to give us price. They were always going to get back with me but never did. It cost them a sale.

 

[ctmacnicol]

I am also just over my warranty with HL and have had too many issues to list. I have a 2012 31QBSS NorthTrail and it spent more time at CW the first year than in my possession. I have had water leaks, floor issues, slide issues and now the front phylon has sunken in in a few places. I went to CW who said they have seen this in a few HL units so we sent pictures to HL to get it taken care of. The customer service rep who shall remain nameless, proceeded to tell me that it looks like I hit my unit with a basketball or softball and they can't do anything for me. I was tempted drive up Elkhart and drop the unit on their doorstep as I am beyond frustrated.

 

[emm4273610re]

If the first time the dealer looks over the rig is when you show up to inspect it, then there are probably going to be a number of things that start to accumulate into making an unhappy customer who questions their sanity in purchasing it. For us, back when, the dealer had it hooked to power and water, sitting over a floor drain inside the building. And it was obvious that they had already run all systems. During our PDI, the tech did monkey see/monkey do with me on everything and everything worked. They had already identified that the dining table had some damage and ordered a replacement, which they installed a couple of weeks later at our convenience. Some other minor things were corrected on the spot.

While Heartland can certainly up their game on QA/QC, a lot of the customer dissatisfiers could be eliminated by the dealer inspecting the rig before the customer even sees it.

Once again a shout out to General RV of Birch Run. Too bad they decided to drop the Heartland lines.

It seems to be a trend we go for the best price for the unit and don't realize we are going to rely on a service department somewhere to help with repairs/issues. The dealer that has a good service department that preps the unit BEFORE you get there should be worth something. Of which is why there is sometimes a difference up front when buying the unit. You have to look at the whole dealer when buying. Often I have seen the salesmen do the walk through with the customer, this ensures that he knows how happy or unhappy you are and what you are expecting. He should know what you are expecting , he sold it to you. He should also double check the unit before you get there and have the shop address and issues. Unhappy customers are not good referrals for them or the dealer.

 

[JohnD]

I am also just over my warranty with HL and have had too many issues to list. I have a 2012 31QBSS NorthTrail and it spent more time at CW the first year than in my possession. I have had water leaks, floor issues, slide issues and now the front phylon has sunken in in a few places. I went to CW who said they have seen this in a few HL units so we sent pictures to HL to get it taken care of. The customer service rep who shall remain nameless, proceeded to tell me that it looks like I hit my unit with a basketball or softball and they can't do anything for me. I was tempted drive up Elkhart and drop the unit on their doorstep as I am beyond frustrated.

I'm with 'ya on that!

My dealership has basically washed their hands of my problems . . .

I wish there was some way to get the RV manufacturer's to be willing to sanction dealerships when they offer less than stellar service . . .

But it seems that they (RV manufacturer's) are just happy to have a dealership that will sell their product's and don't seem to care that the dealerships follow up with good service practices . . .

I can tell you that without a doubt when we are ready to upgrade our RV that we WON'T purchase from the same dealership that we bought our 2013 Heartland Trail Runner from (and I hope that they are reading this).

By the by . . . I'm not one of those internet shoppers that will force any retailer to give me the product at the lowest price possible . . .

I work in the retail industry and understand the difference between the lowest price . . . and the best possible service.

And I'm one of the few who are willing to pay for this extra service from my dealership.

I told my dealership this when I bought our trailer . . . it seems they lied to me!

And it seems they'd rather save a buck or two than to keep a customer.

 

[JohnD]

It seems to be a trend we go for the best price for the unit and don't realize we are going to rely on a service department somewhere to help with repairs/issues. The dealer that has a good service department that preps the unit BEFORE you get there should be worth something. Of which is why there is sometimes a difference up front when buying the unit. You have to look at the whole dealer when buying. Often I have seen the salesmen do the walk through with the customer, this ensures that he knows how happy or unhappy you are and what you are expecting. He should know what you are expecting , he sold it to you. He should also double check the unit before you get there and have the shop address and issues. Unhappy customers are not good referrals for them or the dealer.

Exactly!

I sell cameras for a living and when one of my customers walks out the door with their gear, you can be sure that it is all there . . . and it is all in excellent working condition!

Yesterday I sold an $8000 camera setup . . . and you can be sure that the equipment was brand new and in working condition before it walked out the door!

And if my customer has issues with it . . . I'll be there to take care of his problems!

I can't say that about my Heartland dealership . . .

(As you can tell . . . my dealership hasn't made me a very happy camper)

That being said . . . we do love our 2013 Heartland Trail Runner!

 

[danemayer]

On RVs, my opinion is that purchase price/discount has little to do with quality of service; either before or after the sale. We bought from a long-distance wholesaler who did a good job prepping the rig, walking us through and showing us everything, and correcting a few things for us. After we got home, we found a nearby non-Heartland dealer who was authorized for warranty work and has taken care of us.

Our good friends decided to pay $5,000 extra for a good local dealer relationship at a chain well-known for their good service. They got poor prep, a quick walk-through, and horrendous and incompetent treatment after the sale. Their $5,000 got them a negative experience.

Maybe my examples are the exceptions. I know there are good dealers and bad dealers. Just saying that quality of service and pricing aren't necessarily tied together.

And by the way, the low prices from the "wholesalers" reflect a different business model that can be extremely profitable. So there's no reason to assume that their low prices mean they have to skimp somewhere.

 

[JohnD]

On RVs, my opinion is that purchase price/discount has little to do with quality of service; either before or after the sale. We bought from a long-distance wholesaler who did a good job prepping the rig, walking us through and showing us everything, and correcting a few things for us. After we got home, we found a nearby non-Heartland dealer who was authorized for warranty work and has taken care of us.

Our good friends decided to pay $5,000 extra for a good local dealer relationship at a chain well-known for their good service. They got poor prep, a quick walk-through, and horrendous and incompetent treatment after the sale. Their $5,000 got them a negative experience.

Maybe my examples are the exceptions. I know there are good dealers and bad dealers. Just saying that quality of service and pricing aren't necessarily tied together.

And by the way, the low prices from the "wholesalers" reflect a different business model that can be extremely profitable. So there's no reason to assume that their low prices mean they have to skimp somewhere.

That is cool!

I guess that what I am saying is that by assuming that a local dealership, because they are close to you, is good just because they are local, is not a good thing!

We didn't shop on price, but we found the Heartland trailer we wanted already in stock at a local dealership . . . and we bought it!

Purchased it from them at the price they were asking . . . and they screwed us in the rear end (ie.- not willing to fix things under manufacturer's warranty)!

Lesson learned.

Heartland . . . are you listening?

My one year warranty has expired . . . and I'm still having the same problems . . . are you willing to help me?

Or am I a customer who has already spent and financed thousands of dollars and you don't care because I've already signed on the dotted line . . .

 

[kakampers]

We got a great price and the dealer gave us our own tech for the entire day. He went over every system extensively and repaired the few very minor issues found. He even moved my stained glass window for me.

He was told to stay with us until we pulled the rig out and not worry about anything else...we would definitely buy from them again.

 

[JohnD]

We got a great price and the dealer gave us our own tech for the entire day. He went over every system extensively and repaired the few very minor issues found. He even moved my stained glass window for me.

He was told to stay with us until we pulled the rig out and not worry about anything else...we would definitely buy from them again.

When we did our PDI, the tech was great!

Unfortunatly for us, the next time we had to take out Trail Runner in for warranty service, they informed us that the original tech had quit and moved on to a different dealership!

Wish I knew where he went . . . that's where I'd be taking our trailer for repairs.