Couple of Issues

[Hunter11]

We are on our way home from picking up our new Landmark on Monday and have a couple of issues I can't seem to solve. So far I have been able to resolve several smaller issues that happened after leaving the dealer but two I cannot figure out. I have read the manuals and looked at the user guides and can't seem to figure them out.

First our main AC unit seems to be running fine but putting out very little air from the vents. We have been in temps of no higher then 85* and the main AC runs constantly just to try and bring the temp down to 73*. The only vent putting out any air flow off the main AC unit is the bathroom. This is not going to work when our temps in Texas get in the 100* range come Summer. Any suggestions on what might be causing this issue? I have the main thermostat set at 73* on auto. I have tried it on high with the same results.

Second is when we have disconnected from power I switch the residential fridge over to the inverter and the green light at the switch comes on and the fridge will kick on but then within a minute the green light at the switch goes out and the fridge shuts down. Maybe some of you folks with this setup can give me some advice on what I may be doing wrong.

We are hold up at the Windstar Casino Campgrounds in Oklahoma today trying to ride out some bad weather so I figured maybe I could work on these two issues. Like I said, so far we have had several small issues that I have been able to correct myself but these two issues are major to us and have to be corrected.

 

[EPaulikonis]

Saw a similar issue with AC on a trailer we looked at in FL. Assuming the zones are set up right at the AC control panel, so it's probably a blockage in the main outlet line for the living room. There was some type of foam block put in the outlet of the AC that hadn't been removed. Bathroom vent was working fine, but nothing was flowing in the main living compartment. AC was running full speed in the bedroom on the second unit.

Good luck on the refrigerator issue. Sounds like it's a surge current problem on initial load to the inverter. May be something as simple as a loose connection at the inverter.

 

[danemayer]

Hi Hunter11,

Congratulations on the new Landmark.

On the A/C, I'm assuming you have a bedroom A/C also, and they're the "Whisper Quiet". Are both units ON?

If it's 85 outside, and you have windows in direct sun, and setup at 5pm, it may take a good bit of the evening to get to 73. When it's 100, it takes ours 4-5 hours to get down to 77. If staying in the same place, you have to get ahead of the heat by cooling down below 70 in the morning.

That said, you could have obstructions in the vents and should get it checked.

The residential frig when powered on the inverter needs a good battery charge. Has the Residential Refrigerator Guide diagnostic been helpful? I'd check for loose wires in the power path to the frig.

You also may want to take a run through the 12V Block Diagram and Diagnostic Guide to check out the 12V systems in general.

 

[jbeletti]

Hunter11,

I agree with Dan. Do you have a volt meter? If so, I suggest you try this:

1. Disconnect from shore power
2. Using the volt meter on DC voltage setting, 20 volt scale, measure the voltage on the + - connections on top of the battery box. Record that voltage.
3. Turn on shore power, then remeasure the voltage at the same points and compare to the first reading

This test is to see:

1. What the state of your battery voltage is at, and
2. Whether the converter is working

If your DC voltage is low when unplugged from shore power, you're likely below the voltage required by the inverter to operate.

If the voltage does not increase when connected to shore power (some possibilities...):

1. Your converter is not working, or
2. The 50 amp manual resetting mini-breaker is tripped

If 2) above, check the left side of the second mini-breaker down from the top in that vertical row of breakers under those red plastic caps, mounted to the wall behind the battery box. Press in on the left side of that breaker to reset it if needed.

If 1) above, pull the utility/bulkhead wall (4 screws) and check to see if the converter is plugged in. If it is, check for voltage on the "output", being VERY careful to not short it (you'll blow the 3 output fuses if you short it).

Please let Dan know on this thread, what your findings are. When you solve this, anything learned can be incorporated into the user guide. Note that I had a tripped mini-breaker this week that prevented the batteries from getting a charge from the converter that resulted in voltage too low for the inverter to operate. I reset it but don't yet know why it tripped.

Note too that my inverter was beeping and the display was flashing. I could not read the display and did not know what the beeping signified, but now figure it was a low voltage alert.

 

[Hunter11]

Eric, what you are describing sounds exactly like what I am seeing on our living room AC. Very little air flow from the vents compared to the bedroom AC. Now I would assume to remove this "foam blockage" in the AC outlet would require removing the AC unit from the roof? Since we are living in this unit full time we can't take it and leave it for that to be done.

Dan, yes both units are on and the bedroom unit will freeze you out in very little time. I really feel like the issue is lack of air flow from the outlet side. I got up on a chair and checked the air flow from the outlet side vents and there is just not much air coming out. Unfortunately we could not really check the AC system out at the dealer in Elkhart because it was 41* the day we picked the unit up.

As far as the inverter if I can ever get a break in the rain I am going to get in the front storage area and check all the connections. I sure hope the hill country gets some rain like we are getting here.

 

[EPaulikonis]

Sorry...I can't provide info on how the dealership accessed the line to remove the blockage. I just experienced the issue when looking at a Heartland for purchase. I thought there was a way to get into the space from interior of the coach since the dealer mentioned they typically have to remove the piece after the coach is delivered to them for final sale.

 

[aRAYwego]

Just a little update on my situation here. My trailer is currently at the dealership for the same inverter issue as hunter describes. They have been in contact with HL for about a week so far.

The first thing that was done was all connections were checked by the svc dept. Everything fine there. Next they got authorization to replace the inverter from HL and were sent a new one. They were also given explicit instructions that the inverter was only to be used while hooked to the tow vehicle and in transit.

The new inverter was installed and a tow vehicle hooked up. Same issue 30 secs to 1 minute and the inverter shuts off while beeping. The error code on the inverter was "E03" which according to the inverter manual is "unit output has sensed an overload or short circuit and was shut down"

My dealer is now stumped and the HL engineering team is working on the problem. Why this is happening to the newer units and not others makes me wonder if one or both of the units have been changed I.e. refer or inverter. For more clarity my inverter is a Magnum Energy pure sine wave model: CSW1012. Refer is Frigidaire/Electrolux model: FFSC2323L.

 

[aRAYwego]

By the way. I noticed similar issues with cooling with my living room a/c but can only handle one issue at a time right now. I am leaving on a weeklong trip to colorado Saturday morning.

 

[jmgratz]

On the AC make the thermostat is set to AC and the fan to auto on both zone 1 and zone two. It the AC is on and the fan is set to hi med or low the fan will run constantly without the AC compressor kicking on. Also ours starts with the fan first and then about 30 sec to 1 minute later you can hear the compressor kick in. The cooling starts when the compressor kicks in. Listen for the compressor to kick in.

 

[Hunter11]

[QUOTEOn the AC make the thermostat is set to AC and the fan to auto on both zone 1 and zone two. It the AC is on and the fan is set to hi med or low the fan will run constantly without the AC compressor kicking on. Also ours starts with the fan first and then about 30 sec to 1 minute later you can hear the compressor kick in. The cooling starts when the compressor kicks in. Listen for the compressor to kick in.][/QUOTE]

Jim, yes this is the way I have the thermostats set and the compressors do kick in within about a minute of turning them on.

Sorry...I can't provide info on how the dealership accessed the line to remove the blockage. I just experienced the issue when looking at a Heartland for purchase. I thought there was a way to get into the space from interior of the coach since the dealer mentioned they typically have to remove the piece after the coach is delivered to them for final sale.

This makes me wonder if this is something I can do while we are here today. I wonder if there is something in one of the vents closest to the AC unit I can check or if maybe there is some kind of foam block under the outside AC cover that I could remove to increase air flow? If anyone has experienced this issue and fixed it yourself throw ideas at me to try.

Jim, I did not bring my multi meter with me this trip since we were just making a quick trip to get the trailer and back. I will see what all the connections look like when I get a break in the weather.

 

[aRAYwego]

Hunter11 I really dont think its a connection issue. All connections were checked by myself and by the dealer svc manager on 2 different inverters and everything was correct and tight

 

[aRAYwego]

New update. HL has approved a bigger (2000w) inverter. Will have it in tomorrow. Hopefully that works

 

[rod_s]

I have the same inverter issue with our 2015 Bighorn. Had it to the dealer2 weeks ago and the tech was not sure what was wrong. After a three way conversation with Heartland and Magnum, they decided that the refrigerator needed to be cooled on AC before switching over to inverter. I could not see how the refrigerator compressor would use more amps on startup no matter what the temp is in the box but played along. Needless to say this was not the fix. I will be anxious to see how this issue develops.

 

[Hunter11]

Rod, I have our fridge set to 0* on the freezer and 37* on the fridge and it is at those temps when I kick the inverter on so being cooled first is not the issue. So there are three of us so far with 2015 models having this issue so I wonder what might have changed from previous models that might be causing this.

 

[rod_s]

My refrigerator's tag says it uses 8.5 amps and the inverter is 1000w which would have the inverter working at max. It's possible that our refrigerators (3 with this issue) use a little more than that on startup (the inverter should allow that for a short period of time) or it's possible this run of inverters produce a little under specifications. I'm sure Heartland will figure it out and at the end of the day we will all be drinking a beer and enjoying our rigs as it should be.

 

[danemayer]

This refrigerator problem is a good one. Batteries have presumably been checked an have a good charge. Connections are tight. Inverter supplies power to the frig for 30-60 seconds and quits. Inverter has been replaced.

Seems like there are a limited number of possibilities:

1. frig is drawing more power than expected
2. inverter is supplying less power than expected.
3. Something in-between (the transfer switch) isn't passing all the power that's needed and available.

I'm assuming that the refrigerator and inverter were selected/matched based on power specs. If the frig spec has changed, or it's out of spec, moving to a higher capacity inverter may solve the problem. Same if the inverter is not living up to its spec.

Has anyone checked the junction box that's between the transfer switch and the refrigerator?

 

[aRAYwego]

I will know tomorrow whether or not the bigger inverter will solve the issue and will report back. It was ok'd by HL so thinking they may be using my unit as a test to see if the problem is with too small of an inverter

 

[rod_s]

Dan,

I have considered the following items which could cause this issue: Batteries (both were full charged), battery cables, battery disconnect switch, inverter, transfer switch, a short downstream (although the gfi on inverter should trip) and refrigerator. The tech did open up the junction box under the kitchen slide and everything was fine.

The inverter sends 120v to the refrigerator and the lights and display all work fine until the compressor kicks on (that's the 30 seconds that the inverter stays on line). The best test for upstream issues according to Magnum support is to take a volt reading on the input lug on the inverter itself. If the voltage drops to below 10 volts the inverter will shut down and throw an E03 code (overload). The tech at the dealership said his meter didn't change at all. I'll have a chance to recheck everything Saturday so we'll see how that goes.

 

[porthole]

New update. HL has approved a bigger (2000w) inverter. Will have it in tomorrow. Hopefully that works

My refrigerator's tag says it uses 8.5 amps and the inverter is 1000w which would have the inverter working at max. It's possible that our refrigerators (3 with this issue) use a little more than that on startup (the inverter should allow that for a short period of time) or it's possible this run of inverters produce a little under specifications. I'm sure Heartland will figure it out and at the end of the day we will all be drinking a beer and enjoying our rigs as it should be.

8.5 amps times 120 volts is 1020 watts

1000 watt inverter running at 85 % efficiency (typical is 850 watts). Even at 90% you are still 120 watts under.

As much as I would like to put a residential in our current trailer, and will put in in the next trailer, it won't be sized with less then a 2000 watt inverter. And at that it will be a quality inverter, Magnum being among the best made. But, it has to be sized properly.

 

[aRAYwego]

Bigger inverter installed and working great. Heartland approved a Magnum MS2012 inverter /charger. Leaving now for colorado so will have about 9 hrs of travel time to test it further.