Cyclone 3010 Battery Upgrade

[porthole]

New power center with battery disconnect switches, buss bars, and circuit breakers for upcoming inverter and solar installation. I custom made the cables with 2-0 AWG and 6 AWG marine cable. My new hydraulic crimper's getting a lot of use!

I now have several of these breakers. Don't know if it matters, but they have a "line" and "load" side.
Your breaker on the left in this picture looks to be fed from the load side.

 

[watchthebox]

I now have several of these breakers. Don't know if it matters, but they have a "line" and "load" side.
Your breaker on the left in this picture looks to be fed from the load side.

Good eye. I did notice the line and load sides when installing these breakers. The breaker on the left is for the solar charge controller (not yet installed at the time of this picture). Initially I wasn't certain how to hook it up. I asked someone who seemed knowledgeable on the matter, and was told that since the battery bank is being fed from the solar, the load is actually the battery side. That's how I have it wired. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[watchthebox]

I have one too I am trying to trace. It is on a separate 30 breaker

Let me know if you find out, please.

Tried out the inverter yet? Most of what I have seen is to recommend a 300-400 amp fuse. In wiring a fuse block in mine now, for future inverter use.

The manual for the Magnum MS2012 inverter that I have recommends a 250A breaker or 300A fuse, so the breaker I have is admittedly on the low side. I have used the inverter and it works well. The most I have taxed it thus far is by running the microwave for two minutes. The microwave sounded a little off for the first couple seconds when starting up, but then resumed a normal sound. I wonder whether this was due to too small an inverter or too small of a battery bank to supply initial high load of starting microwave? Inverter is rated up to 3300W 5 sec surge, so I suspect it's due to limitation of battery bank. Breaker hasn't tripped yet. Time will tell whether I have to up size the breaker.

 

[porthole]

Good eye. I did notice the line and load sides when installing these breakers. The breaker on the left is for the solar charge controller (not yet installed at the time of this picture). Initially I wasn't certain how to hook it up. I asked someone who seemed knowledgeable on the matter, and was told that since the battery bank is being fed from the solar, the load is actually the battery side. That's how I have it wired. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Makes sense to me.

Let me know if you find out, please.

The manual for the Magnum MS2012 inverter that I have recommends a 250A breaker or 300A fuse, so the breaker I have is admittedly on the low side. I have used the inverter and it works well. The most I have taxed it thus far is by running the microwave for two minutes. The microwave sounded a little off for the first couple seconds when starting up, but then resumed a normal sound. I wonder whether this was due to too small an inverter or too small of a battery bank to supply initial high load of starting microwave? Inverter is rated up to 3300W 5 sec surge, so I suspect it's due to limitation of battery bank. Breaker hasn't tripped yet. Time will tell whether I have to up size the breaker.

With 4 batteries I would expect you have enough storage. My guess is at 1500 watts you are close to max, and it may be closer to 1800 or more on initial startup. but it works because of the surge reserve.

I finished my golf cart battery install today (2 batteries). Added wiring for a future inverter. I hope to be able to add it later this year. I’ll give it a shot with the 2 batteries see how it does. If not I’ll just have tot change the box and add two more. Not concerned with the batteries being up to a year in difference in age. I got gel batteries and with care they should last 7-8 years.

I plan on a 3KW inverter. Still undecided as to where to mount it though. I don’t want to lose the space in the basement. I would really like to mount it behind the rear basement wall, that way I could feed the inverter form the transfer switch. I don’t know what we be harder, heavy DC cables (2/0) from the batteries back to the inverter (behind the wall) or run the AC wires from the transfer switch to the inverter and back again.

 

[watchthebox]

Two batteries should give you quite a bit of capacity. There is enough space behind the basement wall for an inverter, but aways back and through a tangle of wires and pipes. Could be done though. Do you think ventilation would be a problem? I thinks it's easier and cheaper to run 12 or even 10AWG Romex than large 2/0 DC cable. Less of an issue with voltage drop with longer runs of AC wire.

I'm actually (dry) camping now for first time since making upgrades. Nice having fully charged batteries prior to leaving from solar without even plugging in (shore power) at home. Also mice not having to worry about battery dying overnight from only intermittent furnace use.

 

[porthole]

[FONT=&quot]

Two batteries should give you quite a bit of capacity. There is enough space behind the basement wall for an inverter, but aways back and through a tangle of wires and pipes. Could be done though. Do you think ventilation would be a problem? I thinks it's easier and cheaper to run 12 or even 10AWG Romex than large 2/0 DC cable. Less of an issue with voltage drop with longer runs of AC wire.

I'm actually (dry) camping now for first time since making upgrades. Nice having fully charged batteries prior to leaving from solar without even plugging in (shore power) at home. Also mice not having to worry about battery dying overnight from only intermittent furnace use.

Undecided. It would be cheaper running the AC wires, but I would bump it to at least 8 gauge, maybe even 6 (see note below).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My inverter of choice will be a 3K model with an auto transfer switch. That way I could take the feed coming out of the surge suppressor, which is supplied from the generator and shore power through that transfer switch. Not sure if two transfer switches would cause an issue. I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Either way, if I were to mount the inverter forward it would be 8 or 6 gauge wire from the suppressor to the inverter and back. Maybe 20-25’ of run when done. Mount the inverter behind the wall and it is just from the inverter to the batteries. Maybe 10-15’. I would obviously make that run as short as possible.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For DC run 2/0 welding cable is $5 @ foot. Bump that up to maybe 4/0 for $8.13 @ foot. Roughly $70-120 in wire alone.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For AC marine grade wire: 8 AWG is $3.00, 6 AWG is 4.10, 4 legs at maybe 20 feet each will bump that up well past the 2/0 or 4/0 price, $180-300[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]No rush though, need to get the inverter first, and then I’ll think about solar
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Found this on one of my boating info sources. Might have something to do with your micro start up issue.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Wire[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Resist any temptation to use house wire (Romex) for the AC circuits on your boat. Common house wire is solid copper, fine for a quiescent life inside a wall but unsuitable for the marine environment. Boat wiring requires the flexibility of stranded wire, and it should be tinned for corrosion resistance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Wire size for AC circuits is generally less a factor of voltage drop than of amperage capacity, but starting currents, particularly for compressors, can momentarily increase the current draw up to 5 times nominal.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]If the wire is too small, this momentary surge can actually cause supply voltage to drop below the level required to start the compressor. As a practical matter, 15 and 20 amp circuits should be wired with 12-gauge wire. The (unprotected) wire between the inlet fitting and the main breaker should be 10-gauge for a 30-amp inlet and 6-gauge if the service is 50-amp.[/FONT]

 

[watchthebox]

If you're going to power all your loads by your inverter, then you'll indeed need 6 AWG. I only power 4 circuits -- microwave, and the 3 outlet circuits -- in a breakout box, for which 10 AWG is recommended. I saw no reason not to use standard Romex wiring, as all of the rest of the Cyclone (AC) wiring is Romex.

 

[watchthebox]

My inverter has a pass through switch, which just passes shore AC power through when shore power is available. The inverter doesn't know the difference between actual shore power or generator power. The transfer switch takes care of that upstream and independent of the inverter.

 

[porthole]

If you're going to power all your loads by your inverter, then you'll indeed need 6 AWG. I only power 4 circuits -- microwave, and the 3 outlet circuits -- in a breakout box, for which 10 AWG is recommended. I saw no reason not to use standard Romex wiring, as all of the rest of the Cyclone (AC) wiring is Romex.

My main reason to use marine grade is because of my boating experience. Ancor marine grade wire is tough and very flexible. They use many fine, silver tinned strands. I always have some laying around and I have a commercial account for West Marine, changes the cost factor quite a bit. The flexible stuff is also easier to run where a lot of twists and turns make the path.

My inverter has a pass through switch, which just passes shore AC power through when shore power is available. The inverter doesn't know the difference between actual shore power or generator power. The transfer switch takes care of that upstream and independent of the inverter.

Previous experience with inverters with transfer switches will have me getting the next one with the switch. Unlike the transfer switch in our trailers, the inverter will switch from shore power to inverter output in milliseconds. Fast enough that you will not see your TV or computer blink. The transfer switches in the trailers have a delay. The better inverters, and most likely including the one you have, “clean” the output power before passing through which is good for your sensitive electronics. I have a 32” Sony and 26” Sansui flat screens, Blu-Ray player and usually 2 laptops plugged in. So the thought of clean, regulated power is comforting.

And as you can see, wiring it this way allows all circuits to have access to inverter output, not necessarily to be used, but capable of a pick and choose.