Determined: No hot water

[Prairiedog]

Hi all,

To begin -- this is a Suburban water heater issue on a 2014 Heartland Bighorn 3610

Just came back from vacation. Had the hot water off at the switch, as I normally do when I leave for an extended period. Came back (didn't run the faucets) and turned on both the 120v and 12v heater switches so that i could take a shower after about an hour. When I went to turn on the hot water (about 2 hours later)...nothing was running.

Some facts as I know it:
1) I get flow on "hot" water if I put the bypass valve in bypass, but of course, the water isn't hot
2) When I flip the switch on 12v, the light on the switch is lit, but there is a light above it that is normally on when its on...and its not
3) I don't hear any water coming back into the tank when I drain a little bit out on the front valve
4) The reset buttons don't feel like they can be depressed. The really feel inop
5) It seems like there is power going to the on/off switch -- when you switch it on, you can actually feel a current if the surrounding plate is wet (not a good thing, but at least I felt something)
6) On the back of the water heater, the feed out still feels hot , which means the water heater did heat up at some point. However, after the first red pex connection, it no longer feels hot
7) After I flipped the switch when I got back (when I was unpacking the car), I heard the gas being pulled from the tank. I no longer hear that now.
8) I checked the 12v breaker by the battery -- it isn't tripped -- and the battery is in good shape and it is not being bypassed
9) I've flipped the inside breakers a bunch and nothing fixes it.
10) Everything worked great a week ago before I left
11) When I left for vacation, I shut the water off at the spigot, but I also powered off the water heater.
12) There is no water filtration system. The rig has been running for the past 3.5 years full time.

So, I've read a bunch on this, but can't tell if its a power problem, or a heater problem, or what. If there is a blockage, does the system shut down? Urgh!

If anyone knows what could be causing this, or how to fix it, I'd love some help figuring this one out!

My thanks!
Rob

 

[danemayer]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

Are you saying that in normal operating mode, when you open a hot water faucet, no water runs? But in bypass mode, cold water runs out the faucet?

If that's what's happening, with all faucets closed, on the outside of the water heater, if you carefully open the over temperature/pressure relief valve, hot water should come out. Is that happening? Open it carefully because if the water's hot inside the tank it could scald you.

If hot water comes out the relief valve, but not out of the faucets, the water heater is working, but hot water is not getting out of the top connection on the back side of the water heater. That connection has a check valve that could be stuck.

If you get cold water out of the relief valve, the water heater is not heating the water. You'll need a multi-meter to further check the electric operation. Our owner-written Water Heater Troubleshooting Guide can help you run down the problem.

 

[Garypowell]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

That outside off-on switch can go bad. Moves but does not make contact inside to provide the power.

Pull it it out and remove it and directly connect the wires together. If it works then you have a bad switch. When I found mine bad I just left the wires twisted together because I had another off-on switch in the coach so there was no need for this second switch.

 

[JohnD]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

That outside off-on switch can go bad. Moves but does not make contact inside to provide the power.

Pull it it out and remove it and directly connect the wires together. If it works then you have a bad switch.

When I found mine bad I just left the wires twisted together because I had another off-on switch in the coach so there was no need for this second switch.

Iliketousethatoutsidepowerswitchasasafetyswitchsothat

I like to use that outside power switch as a safety switch so that the water heater doesn't get turned on (electric) while traveling or when there is no water in the heater.

 

[dlw930]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

If the water heater isn't heating when the 120v inside switch and the outside safety switch are both on, it's possible either the heating element or hi thermostat are bad. I had to replace both earlier this year when the heater was turned on before the heater tank had water in it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Prairiedog]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

Are you saying that in normal operating mode, when you open a hot water faucet, no water runs? But in bypass mode, cold water runs out the faucet?

If that's what's happening, with all faucets closed, on the outside of the water heater, if you carefully open the over temperature/pressure relief valve, hot water should come out. Is that happening? Open it carefully because if the water's hot inside the tank it could scald you.

If hot water comes out the relief valve, but not out of the faucets, the water heater is working, but hot water is not getting out of the top connection on the back side of the water heater. That connection has a check valve that could be stuck. .

The hot water heater had been off for a week, so after a few hours of my switching it on...when I opened the pressure relief valve, it was very hot. So, on that note... It seemed like that part was working.

Is the check valve something a novice can fix, and where would that be? Right off the back of the tank, the first pex connection felt hot, but after that...all was cold (or empty).

Also, does that check valve cut off all of the inner workings of the tank? Like, could that be the reason the 12V heater seemed to be inop (switch light was on, but activation light above it was off) and the reset switch didn't seem to work?

Checked again this morning...a bit off a small thud when trying the faucet (like a pressure sound), but no water on the hot side.

Thanks!
Rob

 

[porthole]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

You do know there are three valves for the hot water heater bypass, correct?

1) Cold in
2) Hot out
3) the line between the cold in and hot out.

Whichever mode you are in (bypass or not) the valve between the in and out lines is opposite of those two.

- - - Updated - - -

Iliketousethatoutsidepowerswitchasasafetyswitchsothat

I like to use that outside power switch as a safety switch so that the water heater doesn't get turned on (electric) while traveling or when there is no water in the heater.

And that is the purpose of that switch.
And as other have noted, that switch may look good but in fact be bad. Although the OP seems to not have this problem.

 

[danemayer]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

The hot water heater had been off for a week, so after a few hours of my switching it on...when I opened the pressure relief valve, it was very hot. So, on that note... It seemed like that part was working.

Is the check valve something a novice can fix, and where would that be? Right off the back of the tank, the first pex connection felt hot, but after that...all was cold (or empty).

Also, does that check valve cut off all of the inner workings of the tank? Like, could that be the reason the 12V heater seemed to be inop (switch light was on, but activation light above it was off) and the reset switch didn't seem to work?

Checked again this morning...a bit off a small thud when trying the faucet (like a pressure sound), but no water on the hot side.

Thanks!
Rob

Rob,

Since you have a late model Bighorn, I'm pretty sure you have a single-handle bypass in the UDC. Given that, the hot water outlet on the back side of the water heater is the location of the check valve. There's probably a straight or 90 degree swivel fitting that screws onto the check valve (the top connection). The check valve screws into the female threads of the water heater.

For pictures and step-by-step directions, see page 14 of the Water Heater Troubleshooting Guide.

On your rig, i would expect you have a brass check valve as opposed to the older models that used plastic valves. Once the 90 degree swivel fitting is unscrewed, you should be able to unscrew the brass check valve with a wrench. If there's nothing to grab, you might need a pipe wrench.

Before starting the repair, you have to cool down the water that's in the water heater. Turn off the campground water. Release the relief valve to let any water or air out of the tank. You might want to drain the tank and take a look at the condition of the sacrificial anode rod. If it has substantial wear, replace it. You should plan to routinely replace it annually anyway. Again, let the water cool before starting on this. Make sure you release pressure before unscrewing the anode rod or it will become a projectile.

Replacement check valve looks like this. With luck you'll find one at a local hardware store or plumbing supply.

Use teflon tape on the threads when installing the new valve.

If you happen to have a plastic check valve, you need to be careful removing it. As they age, the plastic becomes brittle and can break, leading to a difficult removal of the plastic from the metal threads. Refer to the Troubleshooting Guide for tips on that.

One thing you might try as a very temporary fix would be to give the check valve a couple of light taps Don't hit the plastic swivel fitting or you could have a larger repair.

 

[porthole]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

you have a single-handle bypass in the UDC

Youguyswithyourfancyvalves

You guys with your fancy valves

At leas the older Cyclones came with the brass check valve from the factory

 

[danemayer]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

Youguyswithyourfancyvalves

You guys with your fancy valves

At leas the older Cyclones came with the brass check valve from the factory

I took this picture on the Toy Hauler line in October. Must be time to upgrade to a new model.

 

[porthole]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

I took this picture on the Toy Hauler line in October. Must be time to upgrade to a new model.

View attachment 49009

That is a Bypass or winterization valve (to draw in antifreeze) ?
I do have a valve that look just like that.


Astotehsecondpart

(now that is weird, when first tapping out the words after the quote the word spacing was normal, starting the second line immediately above had no spacing)

So, as to the second part of your reply, there is just nothing that suits are fancy in both amenities and layouts or lack of issues.

 

[Prairiedog]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

Rob,

Since you have a late model Bighorn, I'm pretty sure you have a single-handle bypass in the UDC. Given that, the hot water outlet on the back side of the water heater is the location of the check valve. There's probably a straight or 90 degree swivel fitting that screws onto the check valve (the top connection). The check valve screws into the female threads of the water heater.

For pictures and step-by-step directions, see page 14 of the Water Heater Troubleshooting Guide.

On your rig, i would expect you have a brass check valve as opposed to the older models that used plastic valves. Once the 90 degree swivel fitting is unscrewed, you should be able to unscrew the brass check valve with a wrench. If there's nothing to grab, you might need a pipe wrench.

Before starting the repair, you have to cool down the water that's in the water heater. Turn off the campground water. Release the relief valve to let any water or air out of the tank. You might want to drain the tank and take a look at the condition of the sacrificial anode rod. If it has substantial wear, replace it. You should plan to routinely replace it annually anyway. Again, let the water cool before starting on this. Make sure you release pressure before unscrewing the anode rod or it will become a projectile.

Replacement check valve looks like this. With luck you'll find one at a local hardware store or plumbing supply.

Ok, looks like I have a brass check valve with the plastic piece inside of it. Unscrewed the 90 degree fitting and got that little plastic piece out (it fell out with a little bit of water pressure). Screwed the fitting back on and ran the water for two seconds with that fitting out and all worked fine...So it must be that plastic valve inside the brass. Put the fitting back in, tightened everything up, and it no longer works.

So, 1) do you think that's the right fix (replacing the whole check valve)? And 2) is it ok to run the system for a few days without that plastic piece inside the check valve? I'd bet not, but figured I'd ask first.

And, if you think I'm missing something... Let me know.

Thanks!!!

 

[TedS]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

You can operate normally without the check valve. It is needed only for the water heater bypass function.

 

[mlpeloquin]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

The plastic check valves have a tendency to leak over time and that is not fun. So the switch to the brass check valve. So if you can only get a plastic one at this time, do order and replace it with a brass one to avoid a big wet problem later.

 

[porthole]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

You can operate normally without the check valve. It is needed only for the water heater bypass function.

They are to prevent back flow. and are used in both types of bypass systems, single valve or multi valve.

 

[TedS]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

The check valve is not needed in the three valve bypass arrangement. The one valve in the outlet line from the water heater in the three valve arrangement prevents backflow into the water heater.

 

[Prairiedog]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

Thanks everyone -- found a check valve (the wrong fitting, but a check valve nonetheless) at a local parts store that allowed me to examine how it works. So, yes -- its the check valve. The plastic stopper in mine has come loose from its spring-mount fitting and it looks as if there's no good way to repair it...so I spent the $10 and ordered it on Amazon (THANKS DAN!).

I'm puzzled as to whyintheheck you would build a brass part with such a cheap plastic insert. I'm sure weight has something to do with it, but come on!

Also, the RV repair place said -- yes, you can operate it without the check valve, but then your water heater is running constantly as it has no way to control the backflow. So, basically its heating your water heater and your pipes. He didn't recommend it. Thought that was fair.

So, once again...this site saves my bacon. Thank you all for your words of wisdom and assistance. I am thankful for buying a Heartland, not just because of the product, but especially because of the community.

All the best,
Rob

 

[porthole]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

The one valve in the outlet line from the water heater .............. prevents backflow into the water heater.

That is the purpose of the check valve, and why all the heaters have it.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the RV repair place said -- yes, you can operate it without the check valve, but then your water heater is running constantly as it has no way to control the backflow. So, basically its heating your water heater and your pipes. He didn't recommend it.

I wonder if he can back that up with facts?

 

[danemayer]

Re: NO HOT WATER - Checked all threads and guides -- can't figure this one out!

Thanks everyone -- found a check valve (the wrong fitting, but a check valve nonetheless) at a local parts store that allowed me to examine how it works. So, yes -- its the check valve. The plastic stopper in mine has come loose from its spring-mount fitting and it looks as if there's no good way to repair it...so I spent the $10 and ordered it on Amazon (THANKS DAN!).

I'm puzzled as to whyintheheck you would build a brass part with such a cheap plastic insert. I'm sure weight has something to do with it, but come on!

Also, the RV repair place said -- yes, you can operate it without the check valve, but then your water heater is running constantly as it has no way to control the backflow. So, basically its heating your water heater and your pipes. He didn't recommend it. Thought that was fair.

So, once again...this site saves my bacon. Thank you all for your words of wisdom and assistance. I am thankful for buying a Heartland, not just because of the product, but especially because of the community.

All the best,
Rob

Rob,

I don't think you'll have any significant problem temporarily running without the check valve. It's conceivable you might get some mixing of cold and hot water that keeps you from getting the full benefit of the water heater, but I think that's low odds.

- - - Updated - - -

That is a Bypass or winterization valve (to draw in antifreeze) ?
I do have a valve that look just like that.

This one is in the pass through storage on the rear wall on mid-year 2017 models.

Zooming in on the original shows labeling that says it's a bypass. So I surmise that going forward, some or all of the Toy Haulers will no longer use the 3 separate valve design for bypass, and you won't have to take the wall down to do the bypass.

Don't know where the antifreeze suction valve is located. UDC maybe.

 

[TedS]

"Also, the RV repair place said -- yes, you can operate it without the check valve, but then your water heater is running constantly as it has no way to control the backflow. So, basically its heating your water heater and your pipes. He didn't recommend it. Thought that was fair."

As they say on Click and Clack:. Bo.o.o.o.gus.

When the water heater is not being bypassed, there can be no backflow. Cold goes in the bottom, hot goes out the top. There is nowhere for the water to go backwards.