Diesel Fuel Additive

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
http://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=30&pt=1&ch=114&rl=312

Title 30 Texas administrative code.

(a) No person shall sell, offer for sale, supply, or offer for supply, dispense, transfer, allow the transfer, place, store, or hold any diesel fuel in any stationary tank, reservoir, or other container in the counties listed in §114.319 of this title (relating to Affected Counties and Compliance Dates) that may ultimately be used to power a diesel fueled compression-ignition internal combustion engine in the affected counties that does not meet the low emission diesel fuel (LED) standards specified in paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection.


(1) The maximum aromatic hydrocarbon content of LED is 10% by volume per gallon.
(2) The minimum cetane number for LED is 48.
 

porthole

Retired
I cant find any information about cetane for a Cummins, but Motorcraft is big on cetane additives. I wonder which cetane booster would work in the Cummins 6.7 to reduce carbon buildup on the EGR, the turbo and lower regen frequency? This seems like a worthwhile additive.


The only way to eliminate the carbon buildup is to eliminate the EGR.
EGR is nothing more then a mandated way to reduce certain emissions. And the negative aspect is big, soot clogged EGR systems and coolers.

And no way - any additive at 1 once per 10 gallons or so is going to increase fuel mileage 1-4 mpg's :rolleyes:

And for those contemplating adding two stroke or any other oils to the fuel, that trick went out with introduction of cat's, SCR's and DPF's
 

Bohemian

Well-known member
Anyone who has lived through the worst of American air and water pollution is extremely happy to have clean air and clean water and fewer and fewer toxins in our bodies. Everything has an expense. You can pay it up front or on the back end. Sometimes you can transfer it to someone else.

Me, I am willing to pay for quality of life, good health, and long life. I have no complaints about pollution controls and standards.

BTW, I see pollution increasing and it literally sickens everybody. The price will be paid for allowing this pollution.
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
I have been reading about the issue of cetane in diesel. It seems that diesels use a variety of fuels blends, from Canada to Texas and around the globe. The manufacturers have encouraged the governments to standardize the Cetane levels in diesel fuels so that the engine manufacturers can design to that fuel. The standard is 48 in North America and 51 in Europe. While it is true that RAM and Mopar sell an additive, often recommended by mechanics, you might find that the additive is designed for their older models and not yours. Mopar offers one and I'm sure there is no harm in using it, the diesel supplement recommends not using it. Who do you believe? The Cummins engineers or the mechanic or parts department clerk?

While it is true that cetane levels increase the quality of the burn, it does not increase the quality of the fuel. Increasing the quality of the burn equates to less soot and more power.

Cummins 6.7 will operate efficiently on cetane as low as 40 but is designed to operate at 48 or better. Cetane regulates the quality of combustion not the quality of fuel, turbocharging also regulates the quality of combustion. Texas requires 48 and requires certification that fuels delivered to over 150 listed counties complies with that specification.

Chevron states in a white paper that;

Aftermarket Additives;

"It would be convenient for the user if a finished diesel fuel could satisfy all of his or her requirements without the use of supplemental additives. Although this is usually the case,some users require additional additives because the low-temperature conditions in their region are more severe than those for which the fuel was designed or because of other special circumstances. Other users feel that they will benefit from using a diesel fuel with enhanced properties compared to using regular diesel. Finally, there are users who regard the cost of an additive as cheap insurance for their large investment in equipment. A large number of aftermarket additive products are available to meet these real or perceived needs. Some are aggressively marketed with testimonials and bold performance claims that seem “too good to be true.” As with any purchase, it is wise to remember the advice, caveat emptor, “let the buyer beware.” It may be helpful to regard additives as medicine for fuel. Like medicine, they should be prescribed by an expert who has made an effort to diagnose the problem, as well as the underlying causes. Additives should be used in accordance with the recommendations of the engine manufacturer, and the instructions of the additive supplier. Sometimes, in discriminantuse of additives can do more harm than good because of unexpected interactions."

Look on the table of contents for aftermarket additives on this PDF

http://www.chevron.com/documents/pdf/DieselFuelTechReview.pdf

Cummins says that no additive is needed and recommends against it for my 2013 on their website. My owners manual/diesel suppliment concurred. Their contention was that an increase in cetane did not increase the quality of fuel but rather the quality of combustion, as stated in the link to Chevrons white paper on the issue.

From my reading, I gather that custom fuels can assist specific fuel buyers, such as large boats, and trains and any other user that has determined a need for a custom fuels. They have custom "additive packages" added at the fuel terminal, one can only imagine the variety of industrial users that have specialized equipment and specific problems that need to be addressed by a custom fuel. Chevron is only happy to add these packages for these customers with specific needs.

I have also gathered that lubricity has been addressed in the manufacture of the diesel fuels that we use, and the manufacturer of the motors we use, have designed to the fuel spec. Since the sulfur content was reduced other lubricants have been added to provide the lubricity needed.

End the end, I have picked up that an effort to increase the efficiency of a fuel burn, by increasing the quality of the burn, by increasing the cetane levels is a worthless feel good endeavour as is increasing lubricity, for the advanced turbo diesels that we are employing in our rigs But I am left with the idea that cleansing agents will improve efficiencies over the long run, and improvements can be measured by keeping the components involved with combustion, clean and functioning properly.

I dont intend to increase the cost per gallon of my fuel by 8 cents per gallon for negligible, if any, results.

Although anecdotal, but true in free enterprise, if a manufacturer could produce a fuel better than the next competitor, they would do it and tell you about it.

As far as EGR and soot cooker deletes, I am not about to think that I can improve on the engineering of Duramax, Ford, or Cummins, on the most advanced diesel motors in the world, by tampering with their systems with after market products, forbidden by law and punishable by a $30,000 fine, for both the installer and the user. I have a high school nearby that covers a lot of farm country and when school lets out, all you can see is knuckleheads driving up the road "rolling coal." It is true that if you want to "roll coal" you need to modify your motor so that all that soot won't accumulate on your EGR. But you will never see them remove their turbos which are subject to the same abuse from soot.

Sorry so long....but I wanted to know if I should use the fuel conditioners. I researched it last night and thought you guys would like to know what I found.
 

brianharrison

Well-known member
Good points Jim. I appreciate the engines today are designed for ULSD. However lubricity has reduced with ULSD and coupled with biodiesel addition (and potential tightly emulsified water) I use Stanadyne concentrated lubricity formula (costs about 4 cents per gallon).

As well - because I winter in Southern California, and California has a special requirement to remove aromatics from diesel to a certain level (page 91 of the Chevron white paper) - more reason for me to add lubricity to protect the HP fuel pump in my 2008.

Note lubricity standard here in Canada is higher lubricity than the US - wear scar diameter of 460 vs 520 in the USA.

From the Chevron white paper:

The ASTM D 975 dieselfuel specification requires a minimum level of lubricity for all diesel fuels. The lubricityspecification states that all diesel fuels must have sufficient lubricity to produce a wearscar diameter no larger than 520 microns using the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig(HFRR, ASTM D 6079)

PS - It should be noted that neither the US or Canada regulate the lubricity standard (ie no monitoring or surveillance).

Brian
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
From the Chevron white paper:

The ASTM D 975 dieselfuel specification requires a minimum level of lubricity for all diesel fuels. The lubricityspecification states that all diesel fuels must have sufficient lubricity to produce a wearscar diameter no larger than 520 microns using the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig(HFRR, ASTM D 6079)

PS - It should be noted that neither the US or Canada regulate the lubricity standard (ie no monitoring or surveillance).

But wouldn't mandated compliance the the spec, equal lubricity monitoring?

However, I'm thinking that a cleaner would probably already have a lubricity additive. While the additives generally focus on cetane improvements, with lubricity and cleaning as a secndary benifit to their products. It is interesting to note that many of the product that provide lubricity and cleaning do not focus on cetane. Those that focus on cetane boost claims of 8 numbers, but those that focus on lubricity and cleaning boast on 2.5. The cost of cetane boosters fetch a price of 8 cents per gallon, and I believe the results advertised are inflated. But you are stating a lubricity and cleaning product can be had for about 4 cents.

You will get no argument from me on a lubricity product. It would definitely be a benefit of a cleaner that also had a lubricity package.
 

Doublegranch

Mountain Region Director-Retired
This was copied off the cumminsfiltration.com site. It seems that yes Cummins does recommend a number of different products for their Diesel engines:



Fuel Additives


fuel_additives200.jpg

MORE VIEWS
fuel_additives200.jpg

Cummins Filtration offers an array of fuel additive products to enhance the fuel system performance and support new emission standards. Changing regulations that have lead to the use of biodiesel blends and ULSD fuels have created unique maintenance needs across the globe. The addition of high quality fuel additives is now an important element in every good diesel engine maintenance program.
DESCRIPTION

LITERATURE

With several application options to choose, Cummins Filtration offers fuel additives that make a REAL difference in the modern engine fuel system, including improved fuel economy, longer service intervals, reduced exhaust emissions, and increased combustion and power.



 

Mrsfish

Well-known member
I find this interesting, but I note that this study is almost 8 years old. Do you think that should be taken into consideration on newer engines and their components?
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
I posted this again on the same thread because no one seems to read back to see what was covered previously.

The newer engines are probably different but then who knows since the lubrication is still not standard in low sulfur and has not changed since that study was done. What else would provide the necessary lubricity in new engines over older? I have no hard fact but suspect that nothing has changed in diesel engines that would help prevent premature wear from low sulfur diesel. This is especially true if some of the manufacturers of new diesel trucks are still suggesting additives to fuel.

So my take would be who cares if I pay a few cents more to be sure my engine has the lubrication it needs (or maybe does not need but it makes me feel better). I use higher priced synthetic oil, diff lube, and transmission fluid because I feel better about the health of my vehicle so what is a few cents more a gallon of fuel?

And someone here said that 2 stroke oil was old hat. Could be but the owner of a company that builds and races Duramax engines and is very well known throughout the country ask me if I had ever looked at a two stroke engine that had many miles on it and had been torn apart. His comments was there is no engine that is cleaner than a two stroke because of the type of oil run through them (I can attest to that with my two stroke aircraft engines). His theory was to run 2 stroke through every once in a while to clean injectors in addition to the additive for lubrication.
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
Cummins filtration might have products, but this is what Cummins put in their service bulletins concerning their engines and diesel fuel additives no matter the source of the additives. I think the products you outline from Cummins filtration are for specific fuel issues encountered in very specific situation. As you can see there is not a one bottle suits all magic solution. The HP and lubrication issue is addressed in this bulletin as well.

http://www.sbmar.com/Maintenance/PDF/Cummins-Fuel_ServiceBulletin_Nov-07.pdf

Additives

This section gives information on the use of fuel additives in Cummins® engines, includingwater emulsifiers.Cummins Inc. neither approves nor disapproves of the use of any fuel additive, fuel extender, fuel system modification, or the use of any device not manufactured or sold by Cummins Inc. or its subsidiaries. Engine damage, service issues, or performance problems that occur due to the use of these products are not considered a defect in material or workmanship as supplied by Cummins Inc. and can not be compensated under theCummins® warranty. Cummins Inc. engines are designed, developed, rated, and built to operate on commercially available diesel fuel as listed in the Required Diesel Fuel Specifications; therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives. In certain situations, when available fuels are of poor quality or problems exist which are peculiar to certain operations, additives can be used. However, Cummins Inc. recommends consultation with the fuel supplier or the Cummins® Service Engineering Department prior to the use of fuel additives.Among the situations where additives can prove useful are the following: A cetane improver additive can be used with low cetane fuels. A pour point depressant or flow improver additive can help with high pour point fuels. A wax crystal modifier can help with fuels with high cold filter plugging points (CFPP). An anti-icer can help prevent ice formation in wet fuel during cold weather. An anti-oxidant or storage stability additive can help with fuel system deposits and poor storage stability. A lubricity enhancer can be used to increase the lubricity of fuels so that they meet the requirements given in Table 1.A biocide or fungicide can help when fuels are prone to contamination with bacteria or fungus. Although other additives can provide some performance benefits, Cummins Filtration ™Microbicide (quart - CC2661 and gallon - CC2663) are the only products approved by Cummins Inc. to treat fuels with biological contamination problems. Cummins® Filtration Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive (pint - CC2588) can be used withlow cetane fuels to boost cetane values. Although other additives are available that will boost the cetane number, Cummins® Filtration All Season Fuel Additive is the only diesel fuel additive approved by Cummins Inc. for cetane number improvement. Cummins Filtration™ Asphaltene Conditioner Base (pint - CC2598, quart - CC2597, 5 gallons- CC2549, and 55 gallons - CC2550) and Asphaltene Conditioner Concentrate (2.5 gallons -CC2596, Bulk - CC2559) or Cummins Filtration™ Turbocharger Diesel All Season Fuel Additive (pint - CC2588), can be used to clean carbon deposits from injectors and improve lubricity in fuels that fall below the recommended lubricity specification in Table 1. Although other additives can provide some performance benefits, Cummins Filtration™ Asphaltene Conditioner, and Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive are the only diesel fuel additives approved by Cummins Inc. for use with fuels that do not meet the lubricity specification in Table 1. Cummins Filtration™ Winter Conditioner Base (pint - CC2591, quart - CC2592, 5 gallons -CC2593, 55 gallons - CC2594, and Bulk - CC2590), Winter Conditioner Concentrate (5gallons - CC2552, 55 gallons - CC2553, and Bulk - CC2554), and Turbocharger Diesel All Season Fuel additive (pint - CC2588) can be used to improve the pour point and cold filter plugging point of diesel fuels in addition to preventing ice formation in wet fuels during cold storage. Although other additives are available that can provide some winter performancebenefits, Cummins Filtration™ Winter Conditioner and Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additiveare the only diesel fuel additives approved by Cummins Inc. for winter performanceimprovements.Cummins Filtration™ Platinum Plus DFX Fuel Borne Catalyst can be used to enhance fueleconomy and improve the performance of Diesel Oxidation Catalyst and Catalyzed Wire MeshFilters. Additionally, Platinum Plus DFX lowers the temperature at which soot captured inemission control systems will oxidize. Platinum Plus DFX is available in various package sizes(gallons - CC2767, 5 gallons - CC2766, and 55 gallons - CC2771). Cummins Filtration™Platinum Plus DFX-DPF Fuel Borne Catalyst (gallons - CC2773, and 5 gallons - CC2772) canbe used with passive regenerated, high efficiency wall flow Diesel Particulate Filter systems. It is specially formulated to enhance fuel economy, reduce Diesel Particulate Filter regeneration temperatures, and further reduce particulate matter. Although other additives are available that can provide some performance benefits, Cummins Filtration™ Platinum Plus DFX and Platinum Plus DFX-DPF Fuel Borne Catalyst are the only diesel fuel additives approved byCummins Inc. for use in reducing regeneration temperatures and/or reducing particulate matter.Cummins Filtration™ offers lubricity enhancing fuel filters that can improve the lubricity of fuelsthat fall below the recommended lubricity specification given in Table 1. The following filters are required by Cummins Inc. when the corresponding engine is operated using low lubricity fuels such as Jet A or JP8.Filter Fuel System Compatibility Engine Compatibility FS20000 Rotary Fuel Systems B Series - Tier II Industrial FS20022 Common Rail B Series - Tier III Industrial and Marine FS20023 Common Rail C and L Series - Tier III Industrial If deposits are found in critical components of the fuel system, and an engine meets three or more of the following conditions, a fuel detergent additive is required to improve the dispersancy of the fuel.The engine is used in a hybrid power train.The average vehicle speed is 11 km/hr [7 mi/hr] or less.The engine exhaust is equipped with a diesel particulate filter. The fuel used is 50 percent, or more, diesel number 1 (D1). Premium diesel fuels can possibly contain several additives that can accomplish the same as buying additives and adding them to lower quality diesel fuel. Cummins Inc. recommends the use of a premium diesel fuel during winter (ambient conditionsat -7°C [20°F] or below) operating conditions.CAUTION Over use of fuel additives can cause adverse effects such as fuel filter plugging and reduced aftertreatment life. Great care must be exercised in the choice and use of additives. Some fuel additives can be harmful to the engine. Fuel additives containing ash forming materials will cause combustion chamber deposits. Most legitimate fuel additives perform only one function. Multifunctional fuel additives are mixtures of several additives. All fuel additives perform differently in different fuels; therefore, the additive used must be one to which the fuel will respond. There are noknown additives that increase the power or improve the efficiency of a properly maintainedengine.
 

Doublegranch

Mountain Region Director-Retired
I find it interesting that while Cummins filtration makes the following claims and yet on Jim's post from Cummins, it places a caution of the following:

From Cumminsfiltration:
AsphalteneConditionedFuelPerformanceEffectiveness Injector Clean-Up Improvement Emissions Improvement• Cleans fouled injectors• Prevents injector fouling• Optimizes fuel economy• Optimizes power• Reduces exhaust emissions• Improves fuel stability• Increases fuel filter life• Prevents fuel system corrosion• Improves lubricity for prolonged pump and injector life• Meets Cummins L10 injector cleanliness spec at recommended treatment• Meets Peugeot XUD 9 deposit test spec at recommended treatment• Meets EMA lubricity spec at recommended treatment

From Jim's post taken from Cummins data:

CAUTION Over use of fuel additives can cause adverse effects such as fuel filter plugging and reduced aftertreatment life. Great care must be exercised in the choice and use of additives. Some fuel additives can be harmful to the engine. Fuel additives containing ash forming materials will cause combustion chamber deposits. Most legitimate fuel additives perform only one function. Multifunctional fuel additives are mixtures of several additives. All fuel additives perform differently in different fuels; therefore, the additive used must be one to which the fuel will respond. There are noknown additives that increase the power or improve the efficiency of a properly maintainedengine.
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
I would not have known that Cummins Filtration had these procuts if you would not have pointed out to me.

I think that Cummins and Cummins filtration are talking about similar subjects.

Cummins filtration has representatives in the field that sell and market this stuff by the barrell. They seek out buyers with specific problems and offer them the solution to their specific real problems.

Cummins on the other hand looks at it differently, in that, they recommend additives only to address specific problems IF you have a problem. They are essentially saying that if you don't have these problems then you don't need any additives, and if you do use additives and you damage your motor it will not be considered a workmanship problem, and no warranties will be honored.

The commonality between the seemingly ambiguous statements is that Cummins Filtration has specific products for specific problems, and Cummins says use them if you have an application for them otherwise there is no need.

Cummins filtration has one fuel conditioner that is a catchall product that hits most of the problem areas and it seems to be somewhat recommended by Cummins if you think you need it.

I think the big take away is that there is a product for every need and we just don't need them. Except MAYBE the lubricity enhancer.

I'm sure that the newer Cummins and the Duramax and Ford have all engineered their fuel systems to not require anything but pump diesel. But the older diesels which seem to be the main concern might benefit from some of these products.

After reading the Cummins service bulletin I intend to only use an additive only when needed. And Im not going to buy some magic potion off the net. I will buy the specific product for the specific need.

I find it interesting that while Cummins filtration makes the following claims and yet on Jim's post from Cummins, it places a caution of the following:
From Cumminsfiltration:
AsphalteneConditionedFuelPerformanceEffectiveness Injector Clean-Up Improvement Emissions Improvement• Cleans fouled injectors• Prevents injector fouling• Optimizes fuel economy• Optimizes power• Reduces exhaust emissions• Improves fuel stability• Increases fuel filter life• Prevents fuel system corrosion• Improves lubricity for prolonged pump and injector life• Meets Cummins L10 injector cleanliness spec at recommended treatment• Meets Peugeot XUD 9 deposit test spec at recommended treatment• Meets EMA lubricity spec at recommended treatment

From Jim's post taken from Cummins data:

CAUTION Over use of fuel additives can cause adverse effects such as fuel filter plugging and reduced aftertreatment life. Great care must be exercised in the choice and use of additives. Some fuel additives can be harmful to the engine. Fuel additives containing ash forming materials will cause combustion chamber deposits. Most legitimate fuel additives perform only one function. Multifunctional fuel additives are mixtures of several additives. All fuel additives perform differently in different fuels; therefore, the additive used must be one to which the fuel will respond. There are noknown additives that increase the power or improve the efficiency of a properly maintainedengine.
 

Bohemian

Well-known member
There is little to no monitoring of American industry, We now use a government model of NOT responding to complaints. All government agencies that are responsible for monitoring have had their administrative paperwork increased without increasing budgets. so fewer and fewer inspectors. This includes not only manufacturing, but also financial monitoring. Regulations have become complex, not to properly regulate industry, but to prevent new smaller business entrants from having success. If you can afford the courts and Congress, you have a change at large scale big business success. This is corporatism. The age of "self regulation".
 

porthole

Retired
And someone here said that 2 stroke oil was old hat. Could be but the owner of a company that builds and races Duramax engines and is very well known throughout the country ask me if I had ever looked at a two stroke engine that had many miles on it and had been torn apart. His comments was there is no engine that is cleaner than a two stroke because of the type of oil run through them (I can attest to that with my two stroke aircraft engines). His theory was to run 2 stroke through every once in a while to clean injectors in addition to the additive for lubrication.

That was me - and no matter what Banks says - adding two stroke oil is absolutely contraindicated for modern automotive diesels because of the emission components. I did use two stroke oil in my D-max occasionally but that LB-7 did not have DPF's or SCR's and - I did remove the CAT.

You use 2 stroke mixed in with your fuel and you will have emission component issues that will not be covered under warranty.

And that comment about two strokes being cleaners because of using two stroke is BS as it relates to 4 strokes versus 2 stroke. There is a very good reason why what was probably the most popular diesels in the world, the Detroit 71 and 92 series diesel 2 strokes are long gone.

And there there is a very good reason the Evinrude's in their current line of 2 stroke E-tec outboards have specific 2 stroke oil requirements and specific ratios based on what oil you are using.
Their highest quality oil needs a engine management programming to be set at 100 to 1 injection. These newer 2 stroke outboards run more efficient and cleaner because of the quality of the equipment and the oil being used, not additives.

With Ford's at least the big concern with the fuel is not the cetane rating, we have a minimum that we need to get the engines to run, but as was pointed out the lubricity of the fuel is at issue. And the lubricity was not factored in to get you cleaner longer lasting engine components. The lubricity is needed for the extremely high pressure fuel system components.

I for one do not understand why the fuel pump manufacturers require a certain lubricity "SCAR" rating and yet we do not have fuel in the US that meets those standards. Canada does have fuel meeting those requirements.
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
Ah, assumptions. It was not Banks that suggest two stroke if that is what you are referring to. And since my engine is long out of warranty it would be hard for the use of two stroke to void the warranty. AND, I use Amsoil diesel additive not two stroke anyway. Oh, and my LB7 has few if any emission components including a CAT (pre 04.5 did not have emission) which is why my source may have suggested two stroke oil since his main vehicle is also an LB7.

And that comment about two strokes being cleaners because of using two stroke is BS as it relates to 4 strokes versus 2 stroke.
I think that was the point. cleaner two stroke engines. The oil still runs through the injectors which is the component that he suggested would be cleaned.

equipment and the oil being used, not additives.
Did not that make the point of the two stroke oil being a cleansing agent? The additives are for lubrication more than cleansing.

This thread much like which truck to buy, which tire to buy and what oil I should use is all pretty much BS. As I said before use/buy what makes you happy and that by your research fits your needs. There is no proof that 2 stroke does anything except make two stroke engines run properly but if some wish to run it in there engines what business is it of yours or mine to preach to them? Who cares?

The original question was what additive, if any do you use? As usual the thread turned a corner and became something totally off topic.
 

porthole

Retired
Ah, assumptions. It was not Banks that suggest two stroke if that is what you are referring to. And since my engine is long out of warranty it would be hard for the use of two stroke to void the warranty. AND, I use Amsoil diesel additive not two stroke anyway.

I think that was the point. cleaner two stroke engines.

This thread much like which truck to buy, which tire to buy and what oil I should use is all pretty much BS. As I said before use/buy what makes you happy and that by your research fits your needs. There is no proof that 2 stroke does anything except make two stroke engines run properly but if some wish to run it in there engines what business is it of yours or mine to preach to them? Who cares?

The original question was what additive, if any do you use? As usual the thread turned a corner and became something totally off topic.



If not Banks, then who?

"use two stroke oil in the fuel of your 4 stroke diesel pickup" TCW-3 outboard 2 stroke oil to be specific. That came along around the same time that it was good and OK to add ATF to the fuel.
No testing, no proof, just someone on the net stating a "hey I did this and I picked X amount of horsepower and increased my mileage X%.

I didn't look to see your truck until your last post, but, you have an older D-Max which is where IIRC, the whole add "?" this to fuel is good came about. I did , ATF or 2 stroke, whatever I had laying around. Didn't see a difference one way or the other. But, both my D-Max your are pre heavy emissions controls. Mainly the SCR and DPF's. You can't use stuff like 2 stroke oil or ATF in these trucks. And because of all of the engine management and emission controls, one should wary of what is added to the fuel.

I would not put any non recommended additive in a modern light duty diesel fuel tank. Not two stroke oil, ATF, marvel mystery oil, turkey fat - whatever.


And someone here said that 2 stroke oil was old hat. Could be but the owner of a company that builds and races Duramax engines and is very well known throughout the country ask me if I had ever looked at a two stroke engine that had many miles on it and had been torn apart. His comments was there is no engine that is cleaner than a two stroke because of the type of oil run through them (I can attest to that with my two stroke aircraft engines). His theory was to run 2 stroke through every once in a while to clean injectors in addition to the additive for lubrication.

Not really sure I understand where you are coming from and this lacks any real basis to this thread.
How are 2 stroke engines any cleaner just because they use 2 stroke oil?
Cleaner how?

Doesn't matter whether it is air or water cooled, diesel or gasoline, syn oil or non syn, there will be carbon build in the engine. And if it has a sump oil system, the inside of the engine will be as clean as the oil maintenance was performed.

Your air cooled 2 stroke aviation engine is nothing compared to modern truck diesels.

And I don't know much about them. So, does 2 stroke aviation engine have a oil sump? Oil injection or do you mix the oil with the fuel?
Most air cooled 2 strokes do not have an oil sump so they rely on the oil mixed in with the fuel.

Over the road 2 stroke diesels were water cooled and had standard oil sumps and oil filters. But they went the way of the dinosaur and have never been in a production light duty pickup truck.


As usual the thread turned a corner and became something totally off topic.

I think we are still on track, since the use of ATF, 2 stroke oil, hydraulic oil etc added to the fuel tank is still a Diesel Fuel Additive as the the tread title reads.
 

Jim.Allison

Well-known member
I dont know but I think that both the Chevron white paper, and the Cummins Service Bulletin, and the Cummins filtration product selection guide pretty much sums up the the whole issue.

As far as ATF is concerned, the ATF can leave detectable color in your diesel for many tank refills, and in the remote off chance that you were ever checked, you would be hard pressed to clear yourself from the accusation that you were running off road fuel.

Any substance added to todays very carefully formulated fuel can have a very negative effect. Its no longer just diesel. It is a chemical formula, and the addition of chemicals can cause other chemical to drop out of solution or create other molecules.

As far a 2 stroke oil is concerned the "soot cooker" can be damaged by that. It is still lawful to burn used motor oil with todays fuel. So if you don't have a soot cooker then burn your used filtered motor oil, or your two stroke oil or whatever you want.

Why do that? go to Cummins filtration and select one of their product that will cure your real or perceived fuel deficiencies.

Cummins states that they know of no additive that will increase HP. However they and others recognize that a clean motor is a healthy motor and provide cleaners to clean and maintain cleanliness, as well as add lubricity to fuel. You may gain HP but only because you had a dirty motor. Not because you used a magic substance.

The motors are designed to burn efficiently at cetane levels of 48 but if you want you fuel to fire earlier then you should increase your cetan levels. But why, your turbo increases pressure in the cylinder causing your fuel to ignite earlier anyway. There is no need to increase cetane unless your fuel is of known poor quality.

IMHO
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
How are 2 stroke engines any cleaner just because they use 2 stroke oil?
I think it has to do with the fact that the oil (with detergents) goes through injectors and other fuel to engine components. That is my understanding anyway. And RC aircraft engines are gas/oil mixed much like all other small two stroke so you get the benefits of the detergent and oil cleaning properties through the engine whereas 4 stroke is simply gas in the combustion chamber. A simplification but true.

Not really sure I understand where you are coming from and this lacks any real basis to this thread.
Actually this comment was a response to your comment that the two stroke oil theory was BS. It appears that you were commenting on a earlier post by someone else that he used Wally World two stroke. I guess then "basis to the thread" reverts back to your comment which came before mine lol. Hench my response about using two stroke. I am simply the messenger here. I paraphrased someone who builds Duramax engines for sledding and drag racing. I will not post the company or his name without his permission but if you want to call him and talk with him I will be happy to PM his company and phone number.

Did you read the study I posted? Again I am the messenger only here but there was some work put into that study. It is dated, obviously, but as I mentioned in a followup post who knows if the modern diesel has anything built in to cover the low sulfur diesel issue that still exists. I doubt it, as some manufacturers are still recommending additives. The good point of that study is that it is not backed by Dodge, Chevy, or Ford so it has no dog in the "which brand additive" fight.
 
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