Diesel Prices

[StevieWonder]

Well Stevie, the conspiracy has been the "business" decision to not increase the number of refineries for the last 30 years even though the demand for fuel has increased each of those years. I think that you should apologize to the forum for referring to members as "nuts". Now, lets behave as responsible individuals, respect each others opinions, and just enjoy the forum as a place to talk about our trailers, camping, and helping each other solve problems
Clark

OK, so now it's a "conspiracy" to not build a physical plant that was a money LOSER for nearly 3 decades while at the same time loading any new plant up with environmental regulations that make them unprofitable from the get-go. Ever wonder why the copper smelting business is no longer viable in this country? Why anything manufactured is likely to come from foreign soil?

85% of the coastline of this country is banned from offshore drilling. You just can't have it both ways. Everybody wants gas/diesel but they don't want a refinery within a 100 miles of where they live. Everybody produces garbage but nobody wants a landfill. Build a new home at the end of a runway of an airport that's been there for 50+ yrs and then whine about the noise. In Cleveland there was actually an attempt to ban trains from the city limits between 10pm and 6am because of noise. Nevermind the fact the railroad tracks were there before surrounded by developers.

This country somehow believes that cheap energy is a birthright and guaranteed forever. When I lived in Europe in the 60's gas was the equivalent of $4. Gas in the States was about 25c per gallon.

If you've travelled out of the country much you'll see how demand worldwide has mushroomed. Take Mexico as a nearby example. HUGE increase in demands for fuels and electricity. EXPLOSIVE demand in places like India and China over the past decade have totally altered the demand landscape. We're now competing for energy on a worldwide basis. And that doesn't even consider substantial fuel demand increases internally to the United States. Be honest, how many diesel pickups did you see on the roads 15 yrs ago? How many were pulling 5th wheel trailers? How many diesel pusher RVs did you see 15 yrs ago? It's just a very small corner of the demand curve.

Irrational, unsubstantiated claims of worldwide conspiracy by the oil companies is not a solution. When they quit making such BS claims, I'll quit labelling them as nuts. Ignoring the admittedly ugly realities of world demand and world supply to promote conspiracy/manipulation theories is irresponsible. These are the same people who think it's perfectly rational to pay $4 for a 10oz Starbucks coffee and scream about $4/gal for fuel for their $40K pickup to pull their $40K recreational trailer (I own one of each so I'm not pointing the finger at RVer's). At 10MPG, the difference in fuel costs for a 2000 mile roundtrip for $4/gal vs $3/gal is $200. Not a small amount, but not huge either when you consider the capital investment. I would speculate that most folks don't do many 2000 mile trips. Even if you did 5 per year, the net cost would be $1000.

The irony is that high fossil fuel prices will make new technology financially feasible. Hydrogen, electric and even solar suddenly become real, viable solutions.

 

[snuffy]

These are the same people who think it's perfectly rational to pay $4 for a 10oz Starbucks coffee and scream about $4/gal for fuel for their $40K pickup to pull their $40K recreational trailer (I own one of each so I'm not pointing the finger at RVer's). At 10MPG, the difference in fuel costs for a 2000 mile roundtrip for $4/gal vs $3/gal is $200. Not a small amount, but not huge either when you consider the capital investment.

I don't know anyone who drinks a cup of coffee every ten miles on a 500 mile trip. Otherwise some validity in your other comments.
I have no problem with big profits. It's the enormous bonuses for the executives that I have a problem with.

 

[lamontagne]

LAS VEGAS prices are 4.16 per gallon and I own two deisels

 

[StevieWonder]

I don't know anyone who drinks a cup of coffee every ten miles on a 500 mile trip.

You've never travelled with me then!

Otherwise some validity in your other comments.
I have no problem with big profits. It's the enormous bonuses for the executives that I have a problem with.

Executive pay is totally out of control across the board. It's certainly not a phenomenon of the oil business. I think Michael Eisner at Disney was the first one that escaped the realm of reality. Telecoms, dotcoms, airlines, computer companies are but a few that jump to mind. It's a disgrace that boards of directors are allowing this and that institutional investors, who have the only real shareholder clout, have stood idly by.

 

[Delaine and Lindy]

Well fuel prices will quit going up in a few more months. Because people can't afford these prices. Food prices is going up like a rocket, and its going to get worse. We are being destroyed by ourselves, if you don't increase refineries, none in the past 35 years and drill were there is plenty of oil get use to paying this price. The Wacko's have won because we put up with their BS for to long, now its time to pay. Tell them to hug a tree, and drill off the coast and in Anwar now not tomorrow. If you like what your doing, RVing you had better get after the so called congress men/women, remember the DEM's said if they get in control of Congess they would bring down the price of Gas, well its more than double since they took office.. And it will go up more. Opec even said that the USA can't refine the Oil they send them now. We as a country are in serious trouble, you had better get with the program and Vote the correct way. GBY....

 

[flder]

FYI - Here are two web sites showing the the total taxes paid on fuel.




http://www.factsonfuel.org/images/pdf/DIESEL_TAX_MAP_JANUARY_2008.pdf

http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/GAS_TAX_MAP_JANUARY_2008-2.pdf

Der

 

[jpmorgan37]

This morning in Westport, Washington diesel is $4.79 a gallon. Coming from Texas to Washington last week, I paid anywhere between $3.69 to $4.29 and just thankful that there weren't any lines like we experienced back in the '70's when we couldn't buy fuel.

John

 

[StevieWonder]

Just so nobody gets me wrong, I don't enjoy paying $4+ for diesel but I sure hated sitting in line in the '70s to pay just slightly less (on an inflation adjusted basis) and then find out they ran out as you approach the pump. NOTHING could be worse than not getting fuel at ANY price.

Housing prices in places like Phoenix or LA or the Bay area have risen WAY more than fuel prices over the past 2 decades but nobody seems to complain about that, nor the billions Microsoft made with a near monopoly on PC operating systems (don't get excited Apple folks ... I said near monopoly).

Check out cable TV prices, beef prices and a long list of other items and it's not as bad as you think. It's the rapidity with which fuel prices recovered from the ridiculously low levels of the mid-80's that make it seem so much worse than it really is. We had artificially low energy prices for years and just got used to it ... a natural human reaction.

 

[WRIGHT ll]

$3.99 at a Love's in OKC OK at noon.

 

[StevieWonder]

Sweet ...

I've still got 60 gals in my aux tank that I bought at $3.06. Seems like eons ago.

 

[Bob&Patty]

$4.39 today in Temecula I guess I wont be doing much traveling for awhile. Bob

 

[spankyandbrandysniffer]

Okay. We saw $4.15 in Kerrville, Tx yesterday but down the road a bit, $4.09. Just when we're getting ready to go on to another park. Just our luck.

 

[Loco]

SUPPLY AND DEMAND FOLKS SUPPLY AND DEMAND. It will never get better till we drill more Holes in this country and build more refineries or come up with new fuels.
I spend thousands on fuel every year in my business and just pass it on to my customers That is all I can do.

 

[htneighbors]

Pulling in to pay $4.05 at this very moment - Stringtown, OK!

 

[DennisZ]

Diesel in Las Vegas was as low as $3.96 this morning, and as high as $4.19, I saw it as low as $3.92 on Sunday. It's $4.35 to $4.65 here in Lancaster, CA.

Dennis

 

[DaleR]

I’m going to jump in here, and then I’ll go back to my little corner and keep my mouth shut.
When we as consumers at the bottom of the pile,who can not pass our costs on to someone else, or expect an increase in income to make up the difference, it’s a bitter pill to have to take, when you can see oil companies making billions in profits. (profits in my dictionary, is after all other costs) The average wage earner would have to work 40 years, $25,000,000 per year to get to one billion dollars. I think Shell Oil made over twenty five billion last year. Now profits make the world go around, but GEE-WHIZ.

 

[StevieWonder]

Ummm ... what about two decades ago when they weren't making squat, even losing money? They have TRILLIONS of dollars invested. Their rate of return on investment is WAY less than Microsoft and General Electric, to name just two notable examples. Also, their profits are worldwide and not totally from within the US. It's like saying all of Sony's profits come from Japan. Just ain't so.

Seriously, people need to step back and take and objective look at this. The same folks whining about oil industry profits were nowhere to be found when the oil business was on it's rear for decades at a time. They're the same folks who don't think their house doubling in value in 3 yrs is unreasonable. They're the same folks who think air travel is outrageously expensive but won't acknowledge that the inflation adjusted cost is well below what it was in the 1960's! **** the facts ...

 

[Delaine and Lindy]

Unless something changes in the very near future the price of Oil will continue to go up. But when it reaches a certain point the Country as we know it will be no longer. The jails are full now but we will have to build more to house all the people who are stealing to keep their families going. The RV industry is in serious trouble now, good RV companies are closing their doors and its just the begining. As for the oil companies I didn't know they were having money problems. They bought out all the mom and pop service stations or forced them out of business years ago and every day they seem to be opening another Station, I wonder why if they make so little money selling gas and Diesel. But they have us between a rock and a hard place. We really have no choice, very few companies to buy Diesel and gas from. When a small few own all the Gas companies there is no competition. They got us. I am so glad we build another stick house, we don't really have to go Rving. GBY.....

 

[StevieWonder]

I couldn't disagree more. This is the most creative country on earth. I'd bet there was great gnashing of teeth and a wave of doom-and-gloom predictions when horses were replaced by steam and then steam by internal combustion. Adversity is tough to deal with but it breeds a new generation of challenges AND opportunities. Energy sources like hydrogen, electric and LNG for automotive purposes that were a complete financial disaster at $1/gal or even $3/gal start to become viable. New sources of oil that weren't profitable at $60/bbl are very attractive at $100/bbl (oil and tar sands to mention one). Improved technology has transformed us from 10-12mpg cars of the 60's to 20-30mpg of today and there's dramatic improvement on the horizon. RV's were incredibly rare in the 50's and 60's. People have been predicting Winnebago's demise since the Arab embargo of the early 70's ... but they keep plugging along with some good years and some not so good. The strong and nimble adapt; those stuck with doing things the way they always have done it vanish like the dinosaur. Mass transit will become popular once again ... like it was in the day when regular, working people couldn't afford a car. My grandparents knew what it was like not to have electricity, TV's, refrigerators and other "luxuries" that we now take for granted. They saw the automobile go from being a rich man's toy to just another common household item.

One man's adversity is another man's opportunity. I believe this country will suffer but overcome. I'm not ready or willing to throw in the towel on American ingenuity and the strength of the American people. Life will change, just like it did for my grandparents. New technology in solar, wind, geothermal and better use of our resources will advance us into a new and different generation that will be just as exciting and profitable as the transition from coal to oil/gas.

Standby ... great things are coming.

 

[StevieWonder]

ttt ...........................