From a dream to a nightmare: One buyer's story

[G_Hage]

These units will last as long as they are properly maintained...the slide floor did NOT rot out over night, or even over the last several years. It is obvious, to me at least, that whatever was leaking was left unattended for a long time! Most don't seem to understand that caulk and sealant fails due to constant exposure and must be replaced regularly.

I feel for your situation, but if you just bought your unit in January than it was not inspected too closely...a rotted slide floor would have been soft and fairly easy to spot. As others have stated your issue is with the dealer.

Glad the manufacturer of your custom sleeper has taken care of you, but I would be willing to bet they would not do so for a second owner, anymore than Heartland should be expected to.

The slide floor rotted from the bottom up of the sheet. In pressing hard on the surface of the total floor area of the slide it gave the false sensation that the floor was solid. Pressing on the outside did not give much clue either. All damage was hidden under the skin and moldings.

Interestingly enough, we are the second owners of our custom truck which came with a two year non transferable warranty on the sleeper. Yet this manufacturer chooses to stand behind their product and product name even with a second owner and well after the warranty has ended. As I said, I guess we are pretty darn lucky and spoiled to have a builder like them.

 

[G_Hage]

Sorry, I never met them. But you did say that "you would have to think long and hard about buying a HL product" in your 1st post. So moving on....get the tech that is repairing the slide to read the threads about "slide floor delamination". I'm sure you will find it using the search box. I'm still having a hard time with HL going to TX...picking up the coach...taking it back to Indiana...putting in windows and other things and taking it back the Tennessee. Something about that story just ain't right. I bet if the truth were known....thats the story the dealer told them. The cost just of trucking it would be more than its worth. Did the 1st owners verify that they saw this with their own eyes or just take to word of a dealer. It would have cheaper for the 1st owner to order a coach the way they wanted it and have it shipped to Tn. and it would have been a year newer. Just doesnt ring true to me.

I have all documents in hand verifying the Texas to Heartland to Knoxville move. Dealer docs and Heartland docs. Since the original buyer had to buy a new MRS that had already been built since for whatever reason that floorplan was not being built on the line at the time (otherwise I'm sure they would have ordered it to be built this way) that is the reason behind this move.

 

[G_Hage]

Update: It would appear that there has been a factory repair kit designed specifically for the floor delam issues experienced with these slide boxes found in Elkhart and will be shipped to my unit next week. I am thankful to the one that has stepped up to the plate to help out with this problem as every little bit helps soften the blow of something as upsetiing as this has been.

 

[danemayer]

it was originally thought by our repair service that the side walls were water damaged enough to the point of having to replace them and the floor.

G_Hage,

I've been following this thread today with some interest, in part because it's a bit of a mystery, and in part because we also have a Rushmore, albeit a 2011 which no doubt has some differences.

Let me point out a couple of things:

1. Much of what you've said seems predicated on your belief that Heartland incorrectly installed the replacement dual pane bedroom slideout windows; that belief apparently based on the opinion of the tech doing the repair.
2. Your dealer tech expected more damage to the side walls but didn't find that to be the case. So his original opinion turned out to be wrong in a significant way, but you're still holding on to his original opinion of the source and cause of the leak as though it were fact.
3. On our Rushmore, and perhaps on yours, the bedroom slideout windows are on the side walls of the slide. Having leaks in the sidewall windows would match the tech's expectation that there would be major damage to the sidewalls. Since the tech has since found that's not where the major damage occurred, it would seem to undermine his opinion about the cause of the damage.
4. I've read a fair number of posts on this forum about leaks at the bedroom slide out. I don't recall any of them being caused by the windows.
5. It seems odd that the bedroom windows would be installed incorrectly, but the rest of the windows were installed properly. I suppose it could happen, but it just begs for an explanation.
6. If the previous owner took very good care of the trailer and maintained it properly, I have to wonder how he missed the window installation defect that your tech believes he's found. The most obvious answer would be that there was no installation defect. Now I don't doubt that the tech is seeing something that makes him think that, but perhaps it's a more recent development. There have been some posts about window seals shrinking and separating as they age.

All this to say that you seem to have built up a detailed scenario that seems to have a very weak foundation; that is, you're treating the opinion of your service tech as fact, even though there are many reasons to be skeptical.

It might be too early to reach a conclusion about the cause of this problem. Some pointed questions to the tech may be in order. And as I suggested earlier, I think you ought to consider more rigorous leak testing after the repair is completed.

 

[marvmarcy]

We're all sympathetic and many of us have learned to spot red flags over our many years or rving. To me the huge red flag was that this trailer was bought at auction and came with no history.

My last trailer (Newmar Mountain Aire) served well for nearly nine years and was well maintained. It sold at auction for $14,000, and the buyer thought he was getting a bargain. He didn't look closely to see the axles were not parallel, the frame was sprung, and the pin box tipped down in front. He just saw some damage to the right rear corner that he thought he could fix himself. What no one told him was that the trailer was offered by an insurance company, and that the trailer was rear ended by a Silver Eagle bus. Most of the damage was only visible if you looked closely.

My opinion: NEVER buy an rv that has been auctioned unless you are an expert at repairs and know what to look for.

 

[kakampers]

Knowing who the original owners were, I suspect it was well maintained in their care. However, he died in 2010 and not sure how long afterwards the unit was sold....it is possible it was in a lot somewhere for close to three years. More than enough time for lack of maintenance (don't know any dealer who performs routine maintenance) to develop a leak, probably in the slide edge just above the floor and rot it out, especially since the walls in which the suspect windows were mounted have no damage.

We have discovered over the years that is one of the first caulk line to disintegrate due to it's exposure to the sun.

 

[wdk450]

So sorry for your problems. I know that this is a small thing, but did you know that there is an EXTENSIVE online library of manuals which can be found at the top of every forum page by clicking on the "Tools" tab, then the "Manuals" selection, then following the submenus???
If you contact MorRyde they can supply you with important manuals on the IS and disk brakes upgrades. I know that this does not mitigate your other problems, but these important upgrades in the suspension and braking systems make your 5th wheel much safer, gentle riding, and valuable. If you decide to sell, I would greatly emphasize these enhancements.

 

[wino2]

I don't know what state you bought this unit in. But in California it is harder to get a loan on a used vehicle than a new vehicle, in some cases, especially a used RV. They will usually only finance 80% of low book value. When the bank said they would only finance 50K, that did not mean they would not finance a new vehicle. I still think you are taking this out on Heartland, and not the dealer. Did you not look at the model year on all of the paperwork when you signed it. On the serial number the 10th digit in is the model year. Did your dealer not look at the serial number when they entered it in their inventory? Did you buy this unit at an RV dealer or a corner lot? So I would say that your dealer misrepresented the model year. The sticker on the side of the trailer tells when it is built. This is so confusing. The only one with no blame in this is Heartland. Asking them to build a unit that has been out of production for 7 years really. Once again Heartland did not title this vehicle what ever state it was purchased in it is a mistake by the DMV. You have said nothing about your dealers response on all of your problems. Oh well I am going camping in my beautiful "HEARTLAND LANDMARK RUSHMORE"

 

[Bob&Patty]

H Gage, here's the bottom line. The early slides had an issue with water damage to the slide floors. It was caused by the moulding at the bottom of the slide walls not covering the board enough. My 07 BH is that way...but it does not set with the slides open in rain. As I stated in an earlier post, the repair for this has been on the forum for many years and kits to repair it were available.

In your signature it states that this coach is a 2008 but you said it was a 2006 (I think). "Confused". On the pinbox, left hand side, there is a sticker with the build date. When was it built? Mine was built in July of 06 but is titled as an 07.

Since your tech stated that the window leaks caused the problem. I think you need to question that statement. It is possible that the coach sat for a few years with the slides out without any attention. That being said, if it did, thats what caused the slide floor damage....NOT the windows. I have looked at alot of new HL coaches and the molding issue has been solved....but I have never seen or looked to see if they put dual pane windows in the side walls of slides. Maybe they do...I need to look again.

You did not say if HL is helping with the cost of the repair kit in any way. If they have helped you at all on a 7 year old coach....then KUDOS to them. Because they owed you nothing.

Good luck with the repair and hope the LM performs well for you in future.

P.S. just to be clear...HL does not build the slide boxes. They are built to their specs by a sub contractor. Now this may have changes in the past few years. So I may stand corrected if this has changed.

 

[kakampers]

Bob...they do put dual panes in the slide windows. We have them, but they slide up and are not frameless like all the other windows.

 

[jbeletti]

...HL does not build the slide boxes. They are built to their specs by a sub contractor. Now this may have changes in the past few years. So I may stand corrected if this has changed.

Heartland does not make slide room floors. Those are supplied to Heartland by Parkland Plastics. Heartland does make their own slide rooms. Back in the early days - I still want to say Heartland made them then too. Could be wrong on that.

 

[hoefler]

I have been closely watching this thread, I too own an 06 Landmark Mount Rushmore. Bought it in 09. I have had some issues with it, factory tire blow out, slide floor delamination, and fresh water tank falling out. Those are the 3 major issues I have had with this unit, and a few minor ones I can't recall. I don't know the history, or care to know it. It was, and still is, a used unit. It is no one's fault that you did not do a thorough inspection prior to your purchase. I have been involved in camping in an RV for all of my childhood, have worked in a RV dealership service department as well, and now own one. I have done half-a** repairs for my boss, the owner/salesman, that I would not do otherwise in any circumstance other than I needed the pay check. Dealers will do anything and tell you anything to make a sale!! Bottom line, period!! While I had a time or two thinking what have I gotten myself into, I pulled up my big boy pants, and just dealt with it and got it done. I did not whine and cry about what happened and tried to get some one else to pay for my short comings or my mistakes. Do I regret buying my Landmark Mount Rushmore?? NO!!!! My wife and I proudly haul it around the country and are complimented on it every where we go. I will continue to care for it and improve it as I see fit. When it breaks, I will fix it and possibly improve it, which I have done as well. I suggest you take a deep breath, swallow your pride and just direct your energy to fixing your unit and get out and enjoy it. Bashing Heartland will get you no where, especially here. Heartland does watch this forum to some extent, if you are trying to get help from them, I suggest you be quiet.

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

G_Hage, I too have been following this thread with interest. I can certainly understand how you feel but what I question is when you first looked at this rig. You mentioned in a few of your first posts about some issues with the bedroom slide. In fact, in your very first post, another member mentioned to check the bottom exterior of the bedroom slide for problems from delamination. You had even had access to the floor of the slide out when you were looking into the issue of your slide room adjustment. Did you not see the problem back then?

I truly hope you can find a trustworthy service department, get past this problem and enjoy the lifestyle.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Kathy, thanks for the info. Being that they just slide up is why they dont look like dual panes at 1st glance.

JB, it just appeared that in HL's early years that the slide boxes came to the plant already assembled.

 

[kakampers]

Bob that's because they have a plant dedicated to making slide rooms. They also have a plant dedicated to making sidewalls, etc...

 

[G_Hage]

Happy 4TH Of July celebration to all! Hope you are enjoying you Heartland Fiver at your favorite RV resort for the four day holiday. Our 4TH was spent on an emergency run moving a jet engine and the cowlings for it from Denver to Houston. Just delivered it this evening. We will leave Houston in the early AM and drive up to Thackerville, OK to Winstar RV Resort and Casino to celebrate our tenth wedding anniversary which was today. We wish we had the MR behind us but instead will stay at the RV Resort in our custom tractor, as we regularly do.

Back to the content of this thread:

Is it possible that Heartland improperly installed the two double paned windows in the bedroom slide as I claim? The twelve million dollar jet engine we picked up in Denver at our customer was a brand new engine. The mechanics had just hung it on the wing of one of their A-320 Airbus passenger jets. When they test fired the engine and ran it up it suddenly blew. Shrapnel and fire flew out of the tail of the engine before they could get it fully shut down. Upon investigating what caused this catastrophic failure of a brand new engine, it was discovered that one of the highly trained aircraft mechanics had forgotten and left his bag of tools sitting in the bottom of the engine fan cowl directly in front of the fan. The suction of the fan pulling air into the engine sucked the bag of tools through the engine destroying everything in their path.

This twelve million dollar engine most likely will not be salvageable. An otherwise excellent mechanic could very well loose his job. Surely his was just an honest mistake with no malicious intent to destroy this engine. But it happened. Chances are it would never happen again. The jet is repairable, but who should be responsible for the cost of repairs? Somebody.

Based on my tech's findings, it is highly possible he is correct in his belief the windows were not properly sealed during the installation, and if for nothing else, due to an innocent oversight on the part of the installer whom otherwise has a perfect record of quality workmanship. Regardless the damage is done and all evidence to date points to the windows as the culprit. Not to rule out the possibility that the horizontal moldings at the bottom of the slides sidewalls weren't also leaking or had leaked in the past. When I inspected the unit the first day we looked at it before purchasing, all slide moldings were tightly intact and sealed. Upon the dealer America Choice prepping the unit for delivery they resealed and caulked every suspect joint and the total roof.

Now unless you have xray vision, no matter how thorough of an inspection one does (as did I) on a used or new RV, you cannot always see or know what's going on inside the walls and hidden places until it makes itself visible or something fails.

Some feel that I have misdirected my frustrations towards Heartland whom to my knowledge built this fiver. What I was not aware of until some of you kindly pointed this out, Heartland apparently didn't even build my slides but rather a third party of whom I have no clue who they may be. Could they be Lippert slide boxes?

Many of you have stood up for Heatland and backed their product vehemently, feeling I'm being to hard on them and the quality of their product, expecting to much of them. That commands respect and admiration on my part and speaks volumes for the product.

I am as pleased as one could be in this situation and the arrangements worked out to correct this issue as we will put on our big boy pants ( we never took them off to begin with) as one on here suggested I do and pay to get this problem corrected with a little help that was agreed upon. We will enjoy this floor plan that we love so much until such time we can upgrade to a brand new Lifestyle 36FW, unless Heartland reintroduces the Mount Rushmore Suite in which we would prefer.

 

[G_Hage]

No, the problem showed no signs of delam at that time to myself or the dealer's service department. Then after we took delivery and planned to open the slide the last time we were home this is what we found even before opening it from the last time it was closed up. Up until this point our only complaint was with how the slide box leaned in at the top. As stated before, when our tech attempted to open it up a few days ago, the floor then fell completely out of the slide and dropped to the ground according to him. View attachment 25208View attachment 25209View attachment 25210

 

[G_Hage]

There is a difference in bashing one and questioning one's practices etc. I am simply pointing out possible deficiencies and questioning them.

 

[G_Hage]

Kudos to Heartland!

 

[G_Hage]

I don't know what state you bought this unit in. But in California it is harder to get a loan on a used vehicle than a new vehicle, in some cases, especially a used RV. They will usually only finance 80% of low book value. When the bank said they would only finance 50K, that did not mean they would not finance a new vehicle. I still think you are taking this out on Heartland, and not the dealer. Did you not look at the model year on all of the paperwork when you signed it. On the serial number the 10th digit in is the model year. Did your dealer not look at the serial number when they entered it in their inventory? Did you buy this unit at an RV dealer or a corner lot? So I would say that your dealer misrepresented the model year. The sticker on the side of the trailer tells when it is built. This is so confusing. The only one with no blame in this is Heartland. Asking them to build a unit that has been out of production for 7 years really. Once again Heartland did not title this vehicle what ever state it was purchased in it is a mistake by the DMV. You have said nothing about your dealers response on all of your problems. Oh well I am going camping in my beautiful "HEARTLAND LANDMARK RUSHMORE"

I simply asked Heartland if they could build us this unit new or if they plan to bring it back into production in the near future so that we could buy the same floor plan but in a new unit rather than used as we currently have.

In my case the with the limited personal credit lines (because I don't need them cause I pay cash) the RV lender would only risk 50K new or used. Find a brand new Fiver for 50k that you would what to full time in, not us! Unfortunately my business lenders do not finance RVs of any type.