Hey why's much truck in pieces?!

[mmomega]

Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Well I was having problems with my truck for a good 6 months or so (2007 F350 6.0L). Kept taking it in to the dealership with the same problems; Running hot while towing, puking back through the degas bottle, drinking coolant, and some other minor problems.

The truck has 73k on the clock and 90% of those have been towing some decent loads. 13-17k. Well like I said, I kept taking it to our closest dealership and it kept coming back the same. They couldn't replicate problems, couldn't find any leaks (no kidding cause the engine is drinking it) the last time they even wanted me to bring my new Key Largo to them so they could tow it around to see if the truck overheated. I actually laughed at him over the phone and said .... So, you want me to bring a brand new $90k trailer so your guys can just.... toy around with it. Do you trust them that much to be able to not damage it. Is the dealer going to pay for ANY damages at all if they occur. Didn't think so, it wasn't going to happen anyway.


Long story short I had heard about Texas Motors Ford just outside of Ft. Worth, 15mins further than the other dealer so not much of a big deal. So I dropped it off at 3pm on Mon. and they were slammed. Wed. morning the diesel tech calls me and says. Well the clutch fan isn't engaging and only holding 75% load. The degas bottle cap is not holding pressure, the oil cooler is clogged and the EGR cooler is shot as well as the head gaskets are blown.


This was actually a HUGE relief, the truck is still under warranty and every single thing is covered. He asked, Now where did you take it to before and how many times? He said he put his gauges on it and drove it twice and new the head gaskets were gone and after actually pulling the other components off he could see and took pics of how bad the oil cooler and EGR was. 5 times at the other dealership and all they did was replace the coolant bottle.


He just tore the truck apart this morning and said I should be able to pick it up Thursday.


We were thinking the worst and actually wondering about just selling it and trying to find something else because it was becoming such a headache. Just comes to find out finding an excellent diesel tech is like finding a good doctor... 6 months of headache attributed to either lazy technicians or un-trained ones.


So he sent me some pics with her split apart. Pretty good deal and a huge relief. I highly highly recommend Matt at Texas Motors Ford. I found out later after reading other diesel forums that there are guys that drive from San Antonio, Kansas, Oklahoma, etc just to bring their trucks to him.

 

[GOTTOYS]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Interesting. I just spent some time at the Heartland Rally camped next to a guy that calls himself Ricatic on some of the forums. He mentioned all of those problems on the 6.0 and how to deal with them. I drive a Ram/Cummins but what he was talking about all made a lot of sense to me. Maybe give him a holler and he can fill you in on how to prevent these problems from happening again..Don

 

[timbuktu]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

mmomega, in your signature it shows you have a programmer on your Ford, is that on the '07 or '11? If it's on the '07, did they have an issue with the mod and still having the warranty cover the repairs?

 

[JWalker]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

That looks really familiar....hmmm.

 

[TXBobcat]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

I have a 2006 F250 and have had a few problems also.

Replaced the FICM, fuel pump, fuel diaphram, complete A/C (known problem by mfgr), water pump, EGR Valve. Not all was on warranty. I now have 125,000 miles on the truck.

The cooling fan kept coming on all the time. Found out it was the water pump (told them to check it a number of times but they said it was working good).

I wanted gages that would show me the temps. I was looking around for what I wanted and found this gauge. I was going to Houston area and found Powerstroke Magic. They installed the gauge using the computer connection inside the truck. They also added a probe for the Exhaust temp.



They work on everything on a Ford Diesel. One of the things they do is an EGR Block and suggest that the engine will run better if you take all the emission devices off.

Intresting people to talk to about what you can do with a Diesel Engine. I am thinking of having some work done when the 200k warranty runs out.

BC

 

[mmomega]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

@ Gottoys - Yeah I understand completely what caused the entire ordeal, for the most part. The type of coolant Ford put in at the factory, that gold premium stuff (not orange its more yellow) has a tendency to "sludge" up after a while. So the oil cooler is the first to go, the fins and passages are so small it starts to clog, which reduces coolant flow that will be going to the EGR cooler which causes the coolant going through the EGR to overheat and sludge and clog it also causes the blowback through the degas bottle. Then this ultimately ends up with the blown head gaskets. Just a chain reaction due to bad coolant and a poor design from International-Harvester on the oil cooler. It's really just a matter of time until the oil cooler goes. If you're experiencing a hotter engine than what it used to be, look here first. There is a TSB from Ford about this problem specifically. Here's a link. http://www.phila.gov/fleet/Warranty Recalls/tsb09-08-03.pdf
The title is for coolant loss but it also addresses some other problems.

@timbuktu - My guy isn't concerned with a programmer because they look at it from the standpoint of, did that programmer cause the problems. In this case a device that deals with the fuel system wouldn't make the oil cooler sludge and then so on. He is very well versed in all the stock and aftermarket parts for these trucks so is a smart guy. He asks to be honest if you bring in a truck so it cuts down his troubleshooting and you get your vehicle back faster. He said if you have a programmer just tell me so I can go ahead and rule that out from the beginning and keep going. Mine is still under warranty after this. Now you don't have to go telling the service managers everything, they are just the middle men between you and the tech. Just ask for him specifically and talk to him in detail. Service manager just gets the basics. Also he knows I have such a mild tuned programmer that it wouldn't cause any serious problems. I can't load custom tunes on this one.

The EGR delete is the way to go AFTER your warranty is gone IMHO.
Just in the fact that after you delete the EGR cooler and EGR Valve then you will have a CEL(Check Engine Light) on. Most of the time you need a programmer of some sort to "hide" that code just so the computer doesn't see it and throw the CEL.

The EGR and Oil cooler were just design flaws from the beginning from International since they designed and built the engines. As well as the 6.4L that only lasted from 2008-2010. After dealing with all this crap Ford said screw this and built their own engine this time around with the new 6.7L.

 

[driver311]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

just amassing! cant work on the engine without taking the cab off. get a dodge.

 

[brianharrison]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

just amassing! cant work on the engine without taking the cab off. get a dodge.

Actually, that is how it was originally designed to do major work on an engine. 4 bolts, 6 connectors and a steering shaft removal and the cab lifts off - or something like that.....

I'm no tech, but had it done on a 6.0L that I owned. It is amazing. Factory originally put them together that way as well.


Take care,
Brian

 

[mmomega]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Once that cab is off there is no leaning over the radiator or step stools everything is just right there.

That truck is an '07 if I would have bought a Dodge, the engine would be fine but the cab would fall apart around it. lol.

 

[timbuktu]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

...coolant Ford put in at the factory, that gold premium stuff (not orange its more yellow) has a tendency to "sludge" up after a while. So the oil cooler is the first to go, the fins and passages are so small it starts to clog, which reduces coolant flow that will be going to the EGR cooler which causes the coolant going through the EGR to overheat and sludge and clog it also causes the blowback through the degas bottle. Then this ultimately ends up with the blown head gaskets. Just a chain reaction due to bad coolant and a poor design from International-Harvester on the oil cooler.

@timbuktu - The EGR delete is the way to go AFTER your warranty is gone IMHO.
Just in the fact that after you delete the EGR cooler and EGR Valve then you will have a CEL(Check Engine Light) on. Most of the time you need a programmer of some sort to "hide" that code just so the computer doesn't see it and throw the CEL.

How does deleting the EGR help the issue if the coolant turns to sludge and works it's way through the engine destroying everthing else? Sounds like to root cause is bad coolant, is that not correct?

 

[Bob&Patty]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Glad you found a Ford tech that knows what he is doing. Sorry but the cab of my 07 Chebby has never been raised because the Duramax nor the Allison has never needed to be repaired. BTW, the cab has not fell apart yet either.

 

[mmomega]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

How does deleting the EGR help the issue if the coolant turns to sludge and works it's way through the engine destroying everthing else? Sounds like to root cause is bad coolant, is that not correct? I have the Banks IQ Six Gun on my 6.0...don't know enough about it to know if I do the EGR delete will it hide the CEL. Anyone know? My warranty expired a while ago so I'm not concerned. The only issue I've had to date is replacing the entire A/C at 70,000 miles, but from what I've read it's just a matter of time before I start having more issues . Just have to convince the wife that it's a good idea! haha.

Well the initial cause would be the factory coolant back then. Switching to the green and you should be fine. Just the OEM oil cooler has very thin fins and passages so when the coolant did start to "sludge" it was the first place things would start to go downhill and then on to something else because of the restricted coolant flow.
Check out BullitProofdiesel.com . They are fairly well known in the 6.0 world for their EGR deletes. Doing it yourself will probably be a good 6-8 hr job just due to having to remove the turbo to get to the EGR cooler.

IMHO all 3 of the new 1 tons are so close in comparison that it just comes down to which you would like to drive. I've been researching the new 6.7 Ford engine since they debuted it at the TX state fair in '09, watching all the diesel forums like a hawk and waiting for real world experience before I chose one and it seemed like a winner in my book. It does have more power + towing on paper but the figures are so close on all 3 it doesn't really matter.
The chevy/gmc is a very solid truck but personally I didn't like the interior as much and that's where most of my time will be. Also lots of reports on dieselplace.com about the UREA system giving people problems, some trying to start a class-action suit against GM over it but I don't see it going too far, but it does have a few owners angry.
The dodge I really considered but I didn't like the dually bed/fenders(which some say the same about the '11 Ford duallys). The cummins is always a great engine but some still complain about the automatic tranny.

The more video reviews I watched the more I noticed how biased some of the reviewers were. Was actually getting comical.

It took me a good year to really talk the wife into making her want the new truck. 2 weekends ago we were just driving around on Sunday and she brought up, "Hey let's just drive to our old Ford dealer and just look at what they have." Few hours later I was driving it home, lol.

 

[mmomega]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Glad you found a Ford tech that knows what he is doing. Sorry but the cab of my 07 Chebby has never been raised because the Duramax nor the Allison has never needed to be repaired. BTW, the cab has not fell apart yet either.

Well I believe that was partly due to GM actually designing and building their own engine, getting someone else to do it for you wasn't the best route as Ford found out. I've never seen an engine get put in place and removed as fast as the 6.4 Powerstroke (and that engine is an absolute beast after removing tuning and emissions).
Yeah my buddy has an '07 2500 HD and it's holding together great, way better than my '07 but he did take it to get the transmission beefed up more almost right after he bought it and he's been running EFI Live tuner on it since he bought it as well as changing the exhaust and shocks. Rides and runs like a champ.

 

[TeJay]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Just a bit more information regarding the engine problems listed above. Just as soon as I read on the original post that you were drinking coolant I guessed at what part of the problem was. Most people know what a compression test is and where the pressure leaks. It can leak around rings, past head gaskets and through head or cylinder cracks. A combustion leak is different. When 800-lb and higher combustion pressures are created leaks can occur that won't show up under a normal compression test. All this stuff took on a new look with the advent of the aluminum cylinder head and block. Engines and cooling systems became more complicated. Aluminum expands and contracts more that cast iron. Point of information for the Chevy guys. GMC didn't make the ZR-1 Corvette HP engine at first. They had little experience with aluminum casting and machining so they gave the job to OMC outboard boat engine maker in Oklahoma. Today however they do make the Corvette engine. Back to compression leaks. Combustion pressure leaks can and will occur. Imagine what a few hundred lbs of pressure leaking into the cooling system will do. On a suspected combustion leak remove the thermostat, take the top coolant hose off and start the engine. Combustion gases will bubble up into the housing. It will also beat the beeswax out of a new thermostat and destroy it. Most times when working on a vehicle if coolant was lost and there were no external signs it was always coolant leaking into the combustion chamber on the intake stroke, combined in the fuel charge and exhausted out the tail pipe. For several years GM recommended using radiator stop leak with every coolant change to reduce combustion pressure leaks. I know the diesel is different and I'm not an expert but with 22:1 compression ratio it will experience combustion pressure leaks.

I have also heard from several good techs that the 5-year coolant (orange stuff) is junk. It is not what it was supposed to be and does sludge up. When it came out I thought it was the best but now I know it's not and I won't use the long term stuff unless I hear it's OK. There may be a replacement for it but I would check around before I changed from the standard green EG. The dealers will use what their manufacturer tells them to use but an independent will generally use what works. I've been out of teaching for 5 years but I've got several good technicians around here that are technically up to date so I'll call them if I have a question.

 

[timbuktu]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

@ mmomega, when you said "delete the EGR cooler and EGR Valve," did you actually mean remove entirely? Just want to make sure I understand.

 

[mmomega]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

@ mmomega, when you said "delete the EGR cooler and EGR Valve," did you actually mean remove entirely? Just want to make sure I understand. I called my local Ford dealership who has done work on my truck over the last couple years and the service guy asked me the same question and didn't seem to know what I was talking about. He was going to check with his diesel tech and get back to me. I guess I just need to check what color my coolant is and go from there.

In a sense the delete does remove the EGR cooler taking it completely out of the equation. It places a block plate on one side to prevent the exhaust from being recirculated back into the engine, on the other side is where coolant comes in to cool the exhaust, it just places a recirculator pipe to route the coolant back into the engine.

I was about to explain it all but rather than that, just go here and read the articles they have. http://www.bulletproofdiesel.com/Articles.asp?ID=148
They have tons of information to other questions you may have as well. Very very useful information.

but ****, after reading more on that site I may just go with their upgraded EGR cooler. You'll see when you read it.

 

[Moose]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Once that cab is off there is no leaning over the radiator or step stools everything is just right there.

That truck is an '07 if I would have bought a Dodge, the engine would be fine but the cab would fall apart around it. lol.

That sounds so funny after trying to figure out for 6 months why a truck with only 73K miles is Found On Road Dead.
Isn't that why they called them Ford "Tough" . . . . . . tough to figure out and tough to fix. :angel:

On a serious note I am glad to hear you got it to a good mechanic and getting it fixed under warranty.

Happy trails.

 

[mmomega]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

That sounds so funny after trying to figure out for 6 months why a truck with only 73K miles is Found On Road Dead.
Isn't that why they called them Ford "Tough" . . . . . . tough to figure out and tough to fix. :angel:

On a serious note I am glad to hear you got it to a good mechanic and getting it fixed under warranty.

Happy trails.

LOL, the Ford part is still in good shape. The International-Harvestor engine, not so much, but will be soon

but doesn't Dodge stand for Dear Old Dad's Geriatric Express or Mostly Old Parts And Rust. haha, you made me do it

 

[brianharrison]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

LOL, the Ford part is still in good shape. The International-Harvestor engine, not so much, but will be soon

but doesn't Dodge stand for Dear Old Dad's Geriatric Express or Mostly Old Parts And Rust. haha, you made me do it

I had not heard the DODGE one before so I'll have to use it with my "older" brother-in-law who constantly proclaims his Dodge superiority over my Ford.

On a side note, I just found out the bed plate on the top of my 6.4L has an oil leak, to be fixed under warranty - which requires a "cab-off" repair. Thanks to Ford for their 5 yr complimentary power train warranty!

Take care,
Brian

 

[caissiel]

Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

The 6.0L have been Ford's problem for years and they never admitted the problem was caused by the choice of coolant. The Gold G05 is used in every Ford vehicles and to me it's to light for the diesel application with the EGR cooler, it breaks down due to the high heat at the EGR cooler and the silicate causes deposits that drops all over the engine coolant system.
I learned this to late, I was able to read the readings with my Scangauge to late also. My Scangauge that I have used for 4 years is the answer for any 6.0L owner. It sells anywhere for $169.00 in for me its a must to tow with any diesel or gas truck truck. I have collected over 60 Xgauges available to be programed on my truck and realy found out a bit to late, it was because my truck was on warranty and checked by Ford and it operated perfectly.

The dealer. ( I suppose) will only repair what breaks or causes problems, so the gauges will warn of any problem before anything breaks. And having it programed, I would have seen all the problems before the warranty was over. Not sure if Ford would have done it but at least I would have something to fight for. It was 3 months after my warranty was over that I found out the cooler was plugged.

EWT(Engine Water Temperature) should be around 190F and if lower your truck might get worst on fuel mileage.
EOT (Engine Oil Temperature) Should be around 5F above the Coolant Temperature. 15 difference at 65 MPH is asking for future problems and Ford is suppose to change the cooler on warranty if covered.
FICM (Fuel Injector Control Module) FMP (Fuel Module main Power) on the XGauge should be above 45V and that is minimum, any less is asking for future problems and at 30V the truck may not start. (It happened to me)

I waited till 100K miles and the truck was still working fine but the coolant was junk, full of deposites and it was a first for me flushing that much out of a Diesel in the last 18 years. International never intended using the gold Junk and they are using the Catapillar CAT-1 approved ELC coolant in all the over 1,000,000, 365T engines and most of the problem with them has been the EGR plugging up on the exhaust side due to to much Idling causing dirty exhaust.

My experience since using the ELC coolant approved by IH, has been how much cleaner the coolant degas tank has been, I can actualy see the color of the coolant. The ELC is much better for the water pump, and I am sure pump failures are caused by the S??T that the Gold dumps in the coolant system.

Every Ford 6.0L owner should pass their finger in the degas bottle by the cap and if there is residue on the finger its similar in the oil cooler and the rest of the engine, rad, heater core. Everything was dirty in mine and now clean with the ELC.

I do flushes for my friends and from my experience I just drain and flush with clean water, and refill with the ELC from International dealer (cheapest place I found to buy the Coolant). Some should use distiled water for the refill as it has less minerals, but the ELC is ok with plain clean water. Any hard flushing will only end up plugging the oil cooler like some have experienced. I just lately found out the the VC-9 that Ford recommends is also a no no to put in your coolant for flushing, it has plugged many oil coolers also.

I did not spend much to repair my 6.0L and so far it has been a great performer and I feel I have it now very reliable for my camper towing needs for a long time.