Hey why's much truck in pieces?!

lwmcguir

Well-known member
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

We have got rid of all the 6.0, still have 7.3 and the 6.7 engines. We found that you had to pull the starter and flush the engine every 50k with new coolant to get over 100K without major repairs. Two much sand left in the engine and the coolant breaks down due to the temperature.
 

mmomega

AnyTimer
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Well, I should get her back tomorrow, at least thats what the service manager implied when he talked to the DW today. He said they were putting the finishing touches on the truck and I did have a battery draining problem and they told us that both batteries were bad but under warranty as well so it will have 2 brand new ones and they're putting new terminals on because the old ones were so badly corroded from the coolant spraying out of the degas bottle on them.

I love my new dealer! hehe

Recap, they replaced head gaskets, clutch fan, shift cable, batteries, degas bottle, battery terminals and washed and detailed it.
 

porthole

Retired
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Well I believe that was partly due to GM actually designing and building their own engine, getting someone else to do it for you wasn't the best route as Ford found out. I've never seen an engine get put in place and removed as fast as the 6.4 Powerstroke (and that engine is an absolute beast after removing tuning and emissions).
Yeah my buddy has an '07 2500 HD and it's holding together great, way better than my '07 but he did take it to get the transmission beefed up more almost right after he bought it and he's been running EFI Live tuner on it since he bought it as well as changing the exhaust and shocks. Rides and runs like a champ.


The Duramax is an Izuzu diesel "Americanized"
Also affectionately known as Durajap
 

mmomega

AnyTimer
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Either way, I'm hoping this new Ford engine lasts longer than the last one before it craps out.

This weekend will be the deciding factor whether or not mods get ordered sooner rather than later.
 

porthole

Retired
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

What mods? I am happy with the way the truck runs and the clean tailpipe. Although mileage could be better.
Unless there is guaranteed performance improvements everything stays stock, at least until the end of warranty. When it comes time to change the DPF, then I will consider changes.

I did all the stuff to my 06 GMC. After intakes, exhaust (turbo back) tuner, fuel system improvements, gauges, left side exhaust manifold and more I saw no change. Other then the "fun factor" on level 6.
 

Peteandsharon

Well-known member
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Ouch. Seeing that cab lifted completely off the truck brought back very bad memories. My '08 6.4L never made it home on the initial 80 mile trip from the dealer. It had a broken rocker arm and bent push rods by the time it got to my garage. It ended up in at the dealer with the cab off and the engine in a few hundred pieces. Tech claimed it had sat too long at a dealership without being started or something to that effect.

Anyway, ommega. That TSB you pointed to earlier in the thread was for the 6.0. Does this issue with the coolant also impact the 6.4??

Thanks,

Pete
 

ricatic

Well-known member
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Seeing that my name was mentioned a few times I will jump in here. Have all the Ford haters finished getting their licks in? It never ceases to amaze me how they feel a need to pile onto a guy with truck problems...

The first dealer to look at the OP's truck was a classic example of what dealer ignorance did to the 6.0 reputation. The oil cooler clogging issue has been well documented over the last 3 years. A combination of leftover casting sand in the block and high temps created by the diminished coolant flow is the number one issue with the 6.0. The oil cooler is first in line in this part of the coolant flow circuit. It receives the debris before the EGR cooler. It is also more stoutly constructed than the DGR cooler. It has been demonstrated by some owners, with lousy dealers, that the oil cooler will outlive multiple EGR coolers. Therein lies the problem.

Here is the chain of events: coolant flow diminishes through an escalation of debris contamination within the oil cooler, eventually the lack of coolant flow causes the next component downstream to over heat. This would be the EGR cooler. The EGR cooler overheats, flash boils the coolant and internal pressures rise due to steam production. The pressure has to vent someplace and the overflow/degas bottle cap is where it starts. Multiple cascading flashboiling events eventually rupture the EGR cooler's internals. This allows coolant to leak into the intake plenum. Heavy white smoke is an indicator of this event. Eventually condensed steam(coolant mix) finds it's way into a combustion chamber and there go the head gaskets.

Some owners have blamed this on the Ford Gold Coolant. I am not in that camp. If an owner decides to switch coolant types, a complete flush to pure distilled water is required. Do not mix coolant types. Adding a coolant filter to your system is a better solution. When I added the coolant filter to my 2004 truck, it clogged solid in 400 miles. The second one made it another 1000. The third was still in it when I traded for my 2011 Ford.

Fortunately, there is a simple and not too costly way to avoid all of the calamity except for the clogged oil cooler. A method of measuring coolant temperatures and oil temperatures is the solution. Ford has determined the maximum difference in oil temp/coolant temp is 15 degrees F at operating temperatures. If you have a larger delta, you have an oil cooler that is on it's way to failure. Replace the $225 oil cooler before it causes the EGR cooler to fail and you are way ahead of the game. A good shadetree mechanic can change the oil cooler in 4 hours or less. I used an Edge Insight for my monitoring. Scan Gauge also makes a neat tool. The Edge Insight is about $350 and plugs into the OB2 port under the dash. It does a lot of monitoring for the money. It is NOT a tuner.

Bulletproof Diesel was mentioned earlier in the thread. If I was replacing a failed EGR cooler, I would spend the money for their modified Ford EGR cooler. It is not much more than the OEM. I would not replace an EGR cooler that passes a pressure test. The OEM works well until it has been well over stressed. I would not spend the money for their expensive to buy and expensive to install remote oil cooler modification. While it likely works well, the OEM cooler is very stout when the contaminants are kept out of the system...think coolant filter. Although a second oil cooler failure after a coolant filter installation may be out there, I have not heard of one.

One other area of importance regarding the 6.0 Ford is fuel pressure monitoring. This is so important. The fuel injectors require proper fuel pressure. They dislike either high or low pressures. Too low and the injector starves for fuel and hammers the internals to pieces. Too high, the o rings that seal the injector body in the cylinder head well fail and non-metered fuel enters the combustion chamber. Hydro lock can occur. 45 psi under heavy acceleration is the minimum. 75 psi is the maximum. A separate fuel pressure gauge is necessary. They can be purchased with a mounting pod for $100 to $200 and it is a relatively easy install.

While we all might agree that having to do these things to keep an engine running well should not be an owners job, the fact is that those with no remaining warranty have to be proactive. Not everyone can just dump their truck and get a new one.

I hope this helps.

Regards
 
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HarleyRyder

Retired Gunslinger
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Very informative post. Would you recommend a coolant filter for any diesel?
 

ricatic

Well-known member
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Very informative post. Would you recommend a coolant filter for any diesel?

It can never hurt but statistically they have not been used much elsewhere. The unique situation of poor block cleaning at Navistar and a design that placed the weaker link in the system last created an issue for the 6.0. Navistar began doing a better job later in the production run of 6.0's. The 6.4 Navistar's have not shown this tendency. I do not have a coolant filter on my 2011 and have no intention of adding one at this time.
 

caissiel

Senior Member
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

As my signiture reads I have listened to all the Ford forums ideas and did the coolant flush to late. The GM I had before was perfect after 100K and I assume that my Ford was great so I did do the flush at 100K.
What I found in the system realy scared me and I have a feeling I plugged my oil cooler with the sludge that was flushed out. It realy scared me to see all the solids that came out of my engine, radiator and core. The sludge is actually silicate deposits from the coolant that Ford has claimed were left in the engine at casting cleanup. I have a feeling its just excuses for not recalling all the trucks with the light Duty Gold G05 coolant.
If they had to they would surely go bankupt.
So after I flushed I filled it with Cat-1 approved Heavy Duty ELC coolant and after 2 weeks of operation I removed the filter and it was perfectly clean and replaced it with a new one. One thing I noticed the hoses that were filled with sludge had been completly cleaned. So I removed the 2nd filter after 3K miles again noticed the filter was perfectly clean, again everything was perfectly clean including the degas tank. Where did all the sludge that was left in the hoses went, I know where it is now the new ELC has absorbed the sludge and it is now being recirculated in the coolant as fine solution that does not even get cought in the coolant filter. I know this is unbelievable but its a fact that the ELC has completly cleaned my truck.
I have flushed a few of my friends 6.0L's and without additional flushing agent, and refilled with ELC, so far it has been a real successfull experience. The ELC can absorb up to 25% conventional coolant and in the same time it has to only be flushed at 600K, I know I will do mine earlier, maybe 100K, and take care of the Gold Ford Sludge that was remained in my engine.

Every Ford that I check has a sludge being deposited in the Degas tank. I know because everytime I show the sludge collected on my finger by the coolant cap in the Degas tank, and tell them that the same thing is all over the engine, heater and Radiator, and most important the Oil cooler. You don't need a gauge to know the cooler is plugging just look inside the degas tank. Then I tell them to do a flush like I usualy do, It only take 3 1/2 Gallons of coolant and one day of work. I do it for less then $100 of coolant and usualy change the thermostat, and the reward of a smiling happy friend.
 

mmomega

AnyTimer
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

What mods? I am happy with the way the truck runs and the clean tailpipe. Although mileage could be better.
Unless there is guaranteed performance improvements everything stays stock, at least until the end of warranty. When it comes time to change the DPF, then I will consider changes.

I did all the stuff to my 06 GMC. After intakes, exhaust (turbo back) tuner, fuel system improvements, gauges, left side exhaust manifold and more I saw no change. Other then the "fun factor" on level 6.

I'll start with the short list of planned mods which are basically a 5" exhaust all the way and an H&S Mini Maxx programmer.
Many of the guys running it say fuel mileage does increase slightly but its anywhere from 2-5mpg depending on your right foot, I don't expect a full 5 over what I am getting now but it would be nice. Also an extra 150hp and I get back that turbo whistle I like so much. Now it will be minimum 2-3 months before I plan on doing this if I don't change my mind and just wait til way later.

Rest of the mods that WILL make it to the truck soon"
Bilstein 5100 series shocks
Firestone Air Bags - because the rear does sag a bit more than I thought it would with the 5'ver on it.
--or neither of the above and go with the Firestone r4tech rear suspension---
retrofit some HID projectors + HID foglights - don't understand why Ford doesn't offer them as an option by now.
19.5" or 22.5" Alcoa classics
paint the nose ring, front rear bumpers body color

Picked up the '07 today and so far so good. The 5'ver is already hooked up to the dually so I didn't feel like switching and going for a ride tonight, leaving in the morning for New Braunfels for some tubing. We'll give it a tow test next week but I'm sure it got fixed right this time.
 

porthole

Retired
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

I did MOR/ryde's spring hangers while out in Elkhart. Helps the unloaded ride quite a bit.
Also don't like the drop with the trailer on. Planning on either air bags or the R4. That system really has my curiosity piqued.
 

mmomega

AnyTimer
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

The r4 has me curious as well. I can't find a good real world review of the system from a real person. I want more than just a magazine review.
 

porthole

Retired
Re: Hey why's my truck in pieces?!

Well I was going to give you the link for the Ford Forum, but I see you are already there.
 
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