Is it normal for the shower to drain to a black tank?

[farfromdunn]

2021 Milestone 377MB. We had both our black tanks pumped out for the first time 7 days ago. We were in the camper for 3 days after that, then gone for 4 days. So after just 3 days of use, the black tank backed up into the shower last night. I pulled the wall between the basement storage and the utility area to get a look at the plumbing, and the shower drains into the forward black tank. There are supposed to be two 40 gallon black tanks.

After much head scratching and troubleshooting, here's how the plumbing appears to be run:
The forward grey is the full bath sink and the washing machine hookup drain.
The rear grey is only the kitchen sink.
The forward black is the full bath toilet, the shower, and the half bath sink.
The rear black is only the half bath toilet.

The reason I think the half bath sink is plumbed to the same black tank as the shower and full bath toilet is that the half bath sink stinks, and when I broke the seal on the shower p-trap, the water smelled awful, and both the shower and half bath sink immediately drained.

After just three days, both black tanks appear to the be almost full based on looking down the toilet hole. I've already given up on the tank sensors. We aren't hooked up to city water. Is it possible that the black tanks are smaller than 40 gallons as advertised? Could the black tanks be connected somehow? Should the shower be plumbed into a black tank and not a grey tank?

I called Heartland last week with a few other concerns including a plumbing leak, and the very empathetic person on the phone promised to get back to me by the end of the day. That was a week ago and I've heard nothing. I asked for an appointment to have it looked at and was told that even for warranty issues they couldn't get it in for 9 weeks. What would you do?

 

[danemayer]

Hi farfromdunn,

With 2 gray and 2 black tanks, I'd think the shower would be draining into the same gray tank as the washer. If you have a clear twist-on adapter on the end of the sewer outlet, a little food dye in the shower drain would let you know whether that water is going into the gray tank or not.

Going by smell alone is not always reliable as gray tanks can stink pretty bad.

Something else you can do is call Heartland back and ask for a plumbing diagram for your model. That'll show you how the engineers intended the plumbing to be. If yours is different from the diagram, corrective action would be covered under warranty.

If that's the case, Heartland is pretty good about authorizing mobile servicers to do warranty work. You need prior approval and you'll have to pay the travel charge. Depending on the servicer, you might have to pay out of pocket and have Heartland reimburse you for labor and materials. But that would avoid the delay, moving the rig, and leaving it at the dealer for weeks or longer.

If you go that route, just be sure to get prior approval.

 

[farfromdunn]

Something else you can do is call Heartland back and ask for a plumbing diagram for your model. That'll show you how the engineers intended the plumbing to be.

I spoke with Heartland yesterday. This morning they emailed me both the electrical and plumbing diagrams for the 2019+ Milestone. The plumbing diagram confirmed that
1) my two forward tanks are mislabeled
2) the engineers intended to run the full bath toilet, the half bath sink, and the shower all into the same black tank while each of the 40 gal grey tanks are connected only to one sink each (plus the optional clothes washer)
3) the second black tank is only a single toilet.

Is there somewhere on this site that I should post the diagrams so others can take advantage of them? I think they're pretty useful. -Matt

 

[danemayer]

Email the diagrams to manuals@heartlandowners.org

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[CDN]

My Landmark had the shower plumbed to the Black Tank. I replumbed this while camping to have the shower into the front grey tank with the lab sink. Back grey is kitchen only. This make a lot for sense for boon docking being able to use both grey tanks together for shower and dishes and th black tank for just toilet lasting us 2 full weeks.

 

[Roxykimba]

our black tank on. our 2019 Louisville was plumbed to our grey tank.. Wrong.. It was fixed

 

[taskswap]

I spoke with Heartland yesterday. This morning they emailed me both the electrical and plumbing diagrams for the 2019+ Milestone. The plumbing diagram confirmed that...

What did you say to them that made them give those to you? I asked for exactly the same thing for a new Milestone a few days ago and they said (direct quote) "Heartland does not send out any CAD or whole blueprints per company policy. Please call and troubleshoot with a rep. 877.262.8032 & have the last 6 digits of your VIN available."

I was really hoping to get some for mine. I had the same questions about plumbing - I have a forward tank and dump valve labeled "Grey Tank #1" that is absolutely a black tank as well, I've watched the toilet paper flush out. I've had several cables plain not hooked up, and two mystery wires (black with white stripe anyone?) with a fuse holder with no fuse installed. And I want to add solar panels and was all set (I've done this before) to put in an entry gland when I looked at the skimpy little 20W unit these come with now, and realized that while the panel wire is tiny, the entry gland IT goes through has 10AWG coming out of it and into an adapter. I want to find where those go to maybe save some wiring run.

Maybe it's just because mine was their lower end brand? Don't get me wrong we love it, but it's made out of tissue paper and dreams...

 

[farfromdunn]

I have a forward tank and dump valve labeled "Grey Tank #1" that is absolutely a black tank as well, I've watched the toilet paper flush out. I've had several cables plain not hooked up, and two mystery wires (black with white stripe anyone?) with a fuse holder with no fuse installed.

I've emailed the diagrams Heartland sent me to the mods, so hopefully they'll be posted here for everyone. I'm happy to email them to you if you want to DM an address. According to the wiring map, the black wire with a white stripe is the power supply for the LCD touch screen control panel. You described your camper as "their lower end brand". If your camper doesn't have the LCD touch screen control panel, that would explain why there was no fuse in the fuse holder.

 

[taskswap]

No, we have the LCD. I just meant that it was pretty clear Heartland was working hard to make the Milestone 386BH hit a $50k base price point. There were a ton of corners cut in its design. I don't want to steal the thread, I'll post a separate one with everything I've found/fixed/improved so far once we're done "making it our own".

 

[RIDGELYB]

I spoke with Heartland yesterday. This morning they emailed me both the electrical and plumbing diagrams for the 2019+ Milestone. The plumbing diagram confirmed that
1) my two forward tanks are mislabeled
2) the engineers intended to run the full bath toilet, the half bath sink, and the shower all into the same black tank while each of the 40 gal grey tanks are connected only to one sink each (plus the optional clothes washer)
3) the second black tank is only a single toilet.

Is there somewhere on this site that I should post the diagrams so others can take advantage of them? I think they're pretty useful. -Matt

I’m having same issues with 2021 Big Country would like to see those diagrams.

 

[marknewbill]

What did you say to them that made them give those to you? I asked for exactly the same thing for a new Milestone a few days ago and they said (direct quote) "Heartland does not send out any CAD or whole blueprints per company policy. Please call and troubleshoot with a rep. 877.262.8032 & have the last 6 digits of your VIN available."

I was really hoping to get some for mine. I had the same questions about plumbing - I have a forward tank and dump valve labeled "Grey Tank #1" that is absolutely a black tank as well, I've watched the toilet paper flush out. I've had several cables plain not hooked up, and two mystery wires (black with white stripe anyone?) with a fuse holder with no fuse installed. And I want to add solar panels and was all set (I've done this before) to put in an entry gland when I looked at the skimpy little 20W unit these come with now, and realized that while the panel wire is tiny, the entry gland IT goes through has 10AWG coming out of it and into an adapter. I want to find where those go to maybe save some wiring run.

Maybe it's just because mine was their lower end brand? Don't get me wrong we love it, but it's made out of tissue paper and dreams...

Maybe luck of getting the right person on the phone with a helpful attitude.

 

[NoCents]

The Dealer AND Heartland advised me that they don’t have FRAMING, WIRING, PLUMBING, & HYDRAULIC SCHEMATICS.
For any 2021 39RK Bighorn Traveler!
I call that BS!!!
Every time I called (6 plus times) I ask for assistance on different problems it’s the same answer.
Question is How can they trouble shoot anything if they use no drawings.

I just want schematic’s, I can fix it my self.

 

[taskswap]

I've heard two opinions on this, one is that they don't actually even have such schematics, that everything is point-to-point and done so quickly that they don't really have a use for them - that's why you see so many access panels just roto-zipped roughly out of the luan and wires and pipes stuffed in there any which way. The other theory is that they do have them but don't disclose them because it's competitive advantange.

I'm inclined to believe the first story but it doesn't matter. I don't think this is a uniquely Heartland thing. I've owned campers branded Travel Lite, Sunset Trail, Rockwood, and Forest River and none of them had schematics available. For the most part you just have to roll with it. In fact I have yet to hear of a single manufacturer on the market that provides them - I would actually love to know if somebody knows of one. I have a friend with a Grand Design and they wouldn't provide this either. So without defending Heartland here, IMO it's tilting at windmills.

Although it would be helpful to have these diagrams you can often work around it so you don't need them. The #1 thing I recommend is a digital USB borescope/endscope, they're like $40 on Amazon. Most are pretty compact and can pair with your phone so you can take pictures as you go. The one I have has LED lighting at the tip so it works well in dark spaces, and I've used it to poke through even very small openings to trace out wires and plumbing.

 

[Lcc1993]

What did you say to them that made them give those to you? I asked for exactly the same thing for a new Milestone a few days ago and they said (direct quote) "Heartland does not send out any CAD or whole blueprints per company policy. Please call and troubleshoot with a rep. 877.262.8032 & have the last 6 digits of your VIN available."

I was really hoping to get some for mine. I had the same questions about plumbing - I have a forward tank and dump valve labeled "Grey Tank #1" that is absolutely a black tank as well, I've watched the toilet paper flush out. I've had several cables plain not hooked up, and two mystery wires (black with white stripe anyone?) with a fuse holder with no fuse installed. And I want to add solar panels and was all set (I've done this before) to put in an entry gland when I looked at the skimpy little 20W unit these come with now, and realized that while the panel wire is tiny, the entry gland IT goes through has 10AWG coming out of it and into an adapter. I want to find where those go to maybe save some wiring run.

Maybe it's just because mine was their lower end brand? Don't get me wrong we love it, but it's made out of tissue paper and dreams...

So we just bought a Cruiser South Fork 3780MB, which is manufactured by Heartland but serviced thru Cruiser, and it's the exact same layout as the Milestone 377MB. We took it out for our first trip this past weekend. We couldn't understand why our black tank filled up soooo fast and when I went to dump, I noticed the crazy tank series (have to dump both black to get to grey, which has never been the case in our previous rigs). So first thing Tuesday I called Cruiser then Heartland and this morning got the tank design (image attached) via email. Nothing we can do about it now but had I known this crazy tank design(dump layout), I think we would've gone with a different model. We don't always do full hookup like we did this past weekend as we love to RV at different state parks so we'll have to figure out how to work around this design.
Any of you that may have this same layout have suggestions? My husband thinks we should only use the 1/2 bath toilet (which drains to it's own black tank) on non full hook up trips, which leaves the grey tank and 1st blank tank for only grey water. Kinda defeats the purpose of purchasing a rig with 2 toilets if we're only using one. Makes me wonder if the people who design these things actually RV????

 

[farfromdunn]

Not sure if it's an option for you without knowing the pass-through space constraints in your 3780MB, but here's what I did in my 377MB. I cut the shower drain line close to the vent stack and capped the stack side. Then I rotated the shower p-trap and added a coupling and a length of pipe to reach the forward gray tank vent stack and tied it in there with a sanitary tee. Next, I cut the half bath sink drain a few inches from the pass-through side of the wall and tied it into the new shower drain arm with a 45º wye, making sure that I had adequate pitch for drainage. Now the only thing going into my black tanks is the toilets. The shower, washer, and both bathroom sinks go into the forward gray tank. It was a bit of work, but it's solved our plumbing problems. Good luck.

 

[Hollandt]

So we just bought a Cruiser South Fork 3780MB, which is manufactured by Heartland but serviced thru Cruiser, and it's the exact same layout as the Milestone 377MB. We took it out for our first trip this past weekend. We couldn't understand why our black tank filled up soooo fast and when I went to dump, I noticed the crazy tank series (have to dump both black to get to grey, which has never been the case in our previous rigs). So first thing Tuesday I called Cruiser then Heartland and this morning got the tank design (image attached) via email. Nothing we can do about it now but had I known this crazy tank design(dump layout), I think we would've gone with a different model. We don't always do full hookup like we did this past weekend as we love to RV at different state parks so we'll have to figure out how to work around this design.
Any of you that may have this same layout have suggestions? My husband thinks we should only use the 1/2 bath toilet (which drains to it's own black tank) on non full hook up trips, which leaves the grey tank and 1st blank tank for only grey water. Kinda defeats the purpose of purchasing a rig with 2 toilets if we're only using one. Makes me wonder if the people who design these things actually RV????

I must be missing something in the drawing regarding the dumping process. You should be able to dump any of the three tanks at any time individually? You have a separate valve for each tank? I do agree that the shower should dump into a grey tank not the blank tank however.

 

[farfromdunn]

You should be able to dump any of the three tanks at any time individually

Yeah, on my 377MB all three tanks can be dumped separately. I don't get what LCC means about a tank series.

 

[Lcc1993]

I must be missing something in the drawing regarding the dumping process. You should be able to dump any of the three tanks at any time individually? You have a separate valve for each tank? I do agree that the shower should dump into a grey tank not the blank tank however.

Should being the key word. 😫 The tanks run in a series and although each has a separate valve, the front 3 tanks all empty/dump from ONE outlet. From front to back is Grey Tank 1, Black Tank 1, Black Tank 2. The outlet is AFTER Black Tank 2. If I open Grey tank 1, the closed valve from black tank 1 stops it from reaching the outlet to empty as does the closed valve in black tank 2. The only one in the series that can drain independently is black tank 2 as it's the furthest back and closest to the outlet to dump with no other valves in the way. Hope this explain it a bit further. Sorry if I can't describe it better.

 

[Lcc1993]

Yeah, on my 377MB all three tanks can be dumped separately. I don't get what LCC means about a tank series.

I'd love to see what your valve set up is as well as where your outlet is to dump, if you've got a pic. I wish i had taken a pic of ours this past weekend before we put it back in storage. On ours, the cut off valves for the 2 black tanks run along the pipe that leads to the outlet, stopping the grey tank water from reaching the sewer hose.

 

[Hollandt]

Should being the key word. 😫 The tanks run in a series and although each has a separate valve, the front 3 tanks all empty/dump from ONE outlet. From front to back is Grey Tank 1, Black Tank 1, Black Tank 2. The outlet is AFTER Black Tank 2. If I open Grey tank 1, the closed valve from black tank 1 stops it from reaching the outlet to empty as does the closed valve in black tank 2. The only one in the series that can drain independently is black tank 2 as it's the furthest back and closest to the outlet to dump with no other valves in the way. Hope this explain it a bit further. Sorry if I can't describe it better.

What you are describing is not what is in the drawing you sent. It appears the dealer needs re pipe your system as per the drawing?