LT tires or ST tires???

[scottyb]

Dan, you make a valid point based on you assessment of the sampla size. However, I have to disagree with your 1% of owners changing their tires. I think if you read closely, as I have read nearly every tire related topic for the last two years, I can safely say that the number of people switching to a different tire is much higher than 1%. I'm not sure what % of HL owners this forum represents, but I would be willing to bet that a good 50% or more of it's members have switched to tires other than Towmax.

 

[danemayer]

Hard to say Scotty. We're all guessing about the numbers.

On this forum we have probably seen hundreds of posts about switching to LT, but many of those posts are from 5 or 6 people who post over and over again about how they switched to LT and haven't had a problem since. They're posting to try to help other owners. So I'd guess maybe a couple of hundred owners have switched. But for the sake of discussion let's assume it's a thousand even though forum posts couldn't possibly account for that many.

If Heartland sells forty thousand trailers with ST tires each year, even if a thousand people have switched, the ratio would still be 40:1. And taking a two year view since not all failures happen in a trailer's first year, it would be 80:1.

 

[scottyb]

40,000 / year? That's impressive. I had no idea.

There is also the factor of the ones that do not participate in the forums, but have had blowouts or just simply changed tires preemptively.

 

[Grey Ghost]

Well guys does it really matter how many run what types of tires? We all do what we think is best for your families. Personally over the last 30 years of RVing I've ran all sorts of tires and previous to that I rode with my parents while they pulled across the USA. Dad always ran with Truck tires but still Dad had his share of tire problems. I've ran both ST and LT tires on a number of units. In the last 15 years I've experienced more problems with ST tires than with LT tires. I've changed the last two 5vers over from ST tires to LT tires. I've blown Power Max Tow Master tires, Carlislie Tires and Yokohama LT tires, but have never had a problem with Michelin LT tires. I've used Michelin's RIB tires for a number of years and I'm now giving their 235/85/R16 M/S 2's a shot. I suppose it is all a matter of preference and to each his own. Any future trailers that I will own will either come with or be switched to LT tires and a well know brand with a reputation to maintain. Firestone and others have learned the hard way that costumer opinions do count and the word does get around. Good luck to all no matter which tire you choose to run with. I just hate seeing anyone sitting along side the road with problems. Oh, also remember it is the law to pull over into the left hand lane, if safely possible that is, and afford that poor soul sitting along side the road a little space. I have almost been hit before by someone that just would not get out of the lane they were in and play it safe for both of us!! Be safe out there!

 

[Gary521]

Good grief!! Now we are quibbling about sample size. I guess there is no point in discussing this any farther - some folks will not be convinced no matter what. Wait ... Maybe we should do a double blind study and have the manufacturer obliterate the LT or ST from the tire mold ( assuming we have the correct population size of the study or somebody will have a problem). Or maybe ....

 

[jdfishing]

In two years of full-time Rving, we've had four blow outs....3 with Carlisle tires and one with Powermax. The tires are ST235/80R16/E. The rig is a good 2000# under the maximum weight of 16000#, and the 7K axles we upgraded to have more capacity than we need. Have considered going to the Mitchlin truck tires I use (LT265/75R16) which I love and already have 55k miles on them.

Question: Can one use the LT tires on the Big Country 3555 or must one stay with the ST tires?? No one seems to want to suggest leaving the ST tires; but I wonder what Heartland would say????

Any thoughts???

Well, you wondered and now you know. I think it was about a 50-50 split. I switched to "G" rated and stayed with the ST and no more blowouts. So far anyway.

 

[wyleyrabbit]

It's funny how certain things are like religion or politics to some people. :angel:

All I know is that I am not an expert on everything, so I rely on the real experts out there when this happens...and it happens often. Whether it's "how much truck do I need to legally and safely tow trailer 'x'?" or "what kind of tires do I need on my truck and/or trailer for this application?" and so forth. I know there are people out there towing trailers that are huge and heavy, yet they have a 3/4 ton and they say, "it tows just fine, never had a problem" yet (in my jurisdiction) if they were in an accident, their insurance could be deemed null and void, and highway patrol can and does pull them over and dole out really nasty tickets. Some of these people admit they're overweight on their payload, axles, tires, and whatever else. Maybe it's worth the gamble for some, but definitely not for me.

When it comes to LT vs. ST tires, I talked to my RV dealership, a couple of trusted tire dealerships, a mechanic, a tire manufacturer, and Heartland. All of them have said emphatically that "no, you cannot use LT tires on a trailer. you must have the proper tire for the job." The tire dealer went on to say that he would neither sell nor mount LT tires on a 5er, and if I insisted on going that way I would have to shop elsewhere. Good enough for me. I've never had an issue (thank God) with the tires on our trailer.

As with anything, do your own due diligence. And remember, "the plural of anecdote is not data". Your mileage may vary. And other clichés.

Chris

 

[dbbls59]

I too called Heartland asking about installing 235/85 16 G rated tires instead of 235/80 16 E rated. Was told no, they do not recommend it. At the Rally I talked to people with older rigs and Heartland actually installed them as standard and only recently changed to the cheaper 235/80 16 E rated ones. As far as LT tires not recommended for trailers, many manufactures installed them as standard. My previous unit came with Lt tires on it. Visit a dealership, other than Heartland, and look at the tires on the larger units. Many have LT tires. Manufactures are using ST tires because they are cheaper. LT tires work just fine and your blow out problems will lessen. Mine went away.

 

[Gary521]

That being the case, why does Heartland install LT tires on some of their trailers?? Your are correct in that we should all do our due diligence. However, we should be mindful of where our information is coming from ( politically and legally ) and the expertice behind the mouth that is talking. Most of these "experts" are just mouthing opinions that they heard. I am not denying the fact that ST tires, by design, are more appropriate. The problem is with the manufacturing materials and methods that are currently in use. With the overwhelming evidence that there is an issue and problem here, why deny it? There IS a problem. There does not seem to be any evidence that a properly selected LT tire has the same issues as the current crop of ST tires or is harmful for use. If you remember the TV show "All in the Family", Archie Bunker got his information be overhearing people talk in the toilet.

 

[wyleyrabbit]

Gary, you make some good points. As I say, I know that I know next to nothing about tires. There does seem to be a consensus amongst those I would consider "experts" that only ST tires should be used on trailers, for a number of reasons. I have indeed read many anecdotes here and elsewhere of people who have "upgraded" to LT tires on their trailers, and I literally went to two different competing tire shops here--both of which I respect--and was told identical info from both of them: (paraphrasing) "always use the proper tool for the job and never use light truck tires on a trailer, especially a big one like yours". OK, fine. I don't believe they (the tire dealers) make a lot more profit on ST tires, in fact, I bet their markup is about the same.

But I get your point. It's tough to weed through the conflicting information. I don't know how many of the blowouts people have experienced were caused by tire age, improper inflation (too high or too low), a road hazard (sharp object, pothole/bump, etc), and so forth. I don't know if there is a correlation or a causation with this issue. Like someone else here said, it's tough to figure out. What percentage of trailers have ST vs LT tires and based on that how does one break down the probability that one tire or the other is better or worse? Maybe someone knows, but I don't.

And I love the Archie Bunker quote.

 

[danemayer]

There are some LT tires being installed by Heartland and other manufacturers. Specifically they are the Goodyear G614 tires (load range G). BUT, Goodyear documentation specifically shows that while they carry the LT certification, they have also been designed for and are recommended by Goodyear for trailer use.

These are the exception.

 

[wyleyrabbit]

There are some LT tires being installed by Heartland and other manufacturers. Specifically they are the Goodyear G614 tires (load range G). BUT, Goodyear documentation specifically shows that while they carry the LT certification, they have also been designed for and are recommended by Goodyear for trailer use.

These are the exception.

And yet, one only has to do a quick google search of "goodyear g614 blowout" and there are many people talking about having a serious blowout with these tires. Some say there was a bad batch. Who knows?

 

[danemayer]

And yet, one only has to do a quick google search of "goodyear g614 blowout" and there are many people talking about having a serious blowout with these tires. Some say there was a bad batch. Who knows?

Keep in mind that each post to a thread shows up as a separate search result. Just as on this forum, you may see 20 or 30 listings talking about the same blowout. Then it may get repeated in another thread. Then it may get multiplied further by posting the same issue on multiple forums. I have no doubt that a google search turns up a lot of results. The question is how many actual events underlie those posts.

 

[wyleyrabbit]

The question is how many actual events underlie those posts.

Yes, exactly. And I guess that goes for both sides of the which tire is "safer" question. One guy that has an ST tire go might make 50 posts across different forums warning others, perhaps even with different usernames on the other forums.

I don't know if some government organization actually keeps statistics on tire failures or not. Would be great to get actual data, not just enthusiastic anecdotes.

My $0.02.

 

[caissiel]

I have OEM LT tires on our 2009 RL3500 5er. The main reason I ok the purchase.
Previous unit had STs and had 2 blowouts every return trips to Florida and back 2200 miles trip one way. After 5 years of replacing ST Marathons and Carlyle's I installed 4 cheap LT tires and ran them at 15% overload and 10 psi above the Max rated air pressure and after 7 years they were still on the unit. After 8 return trips to Florida. With no issues. It's the only times I dared to drive in the dark.
Further an LT tire will shread less the a ST due to better safety design.
No way that I will put ST tires on my trailers.
I was also told that I was not be allowed to install on my rims. Last weekend while we were at a bluegrass show we were standing at the rear of a TT unit with a spare attached to the trailer bumper with a black tire cover and it blew throwing the cover about 10 feet missing a passer by, by just inches.
To me they are now junk and IMO to be avoided.

Sent from my U8666-51 using Tapatalk 2

 

[GOTTOYS]

I have heard of other instances of ST tires exploding just while mounted as a spare. Yet people actually swear they are the best thing you can have on a trailer. If that's their opinion, have at it..Don

 

[piet10]

I too called Heartland asking about installing 235/85 16 G rated tires instead of 235/80 16 E rated. Was told no, they do not recommend it. At the Rally I talked to people with older rigs and Heartland actually installed them as standard and only recently changed to the cheaper 235/80 16 E rated ones. As far as LT tires not recommended for trailers, many manufactures installed them as standard. My previous unit came with Lt tires on it. Visit a dealership, other than Heartland, and look at the tires on the larger units. Many have LT tires. Manufactures are using ST tires because they are cheaper. LT tires work just fine and your blow out problems will lessen. Mine went away.

I also called Heartland and was told that LT tires are fine on my Greystone as long as they meet the loading of the axles and trailer load. I went with the XPS RIBS, which on the Michelin site are approved for RV trailer use. This was also confirmed in an email from Michelin. My experience with them so far this summer is that they run about 9-10 degrees over ambient, compared to 15-20 degrees with my previous Towmax. The pressure increase is also lower, and the 4 tires run much more consistent with each other than the Towmax. I'm also towing a lot more relaxed. But the discussion will go on as long as there are trailers and two tire types.

Al

 

[scottyb]

I would say that the majority of people on here do due dilligence and research what tires they want to run. I know I did, and that's precisely why the Towmax never made it further than Discount Tire and are laying in my organized junk yard in my back pasture. Discount Tire had no issues installing the LT's on my rig and even stated several times that I was making the right move. The icing on the cake was when the technician doing my PDI bluntly told me to "get them off of there" as soon as possible. I figured on the way home would be soon enough, but I had to wait until DT brought the XPS Ribs in, a couple days later. I'm not drinking the ST coolaid.

 

[Gary521]

One thing I noticed after installing a TPMS and still with the ST tires, I was continually getting a low pressure warning after a stop. These turned out to be a false positive. I called the TPMS company and they confirmed that this was happening from the heat buildup and cool down. After changing to LT tires, this has never happened.

 

[Jimsryker]

I've been reading all I can on this topic. I have the same concerns and after picking up my new trailer, my first item has been new tires. My old Aljo weighed in @ 7200# loaded and my China Bombs still blew. Always the rear tire and the second time, it destroyed the wheel well. I had fun learning how to repair that! They were E rated and I don't think they came even close to their max load capacities. I have zero faith in China and their safety concerns. 1.4 billion people. The US doesn't even match the .4 portion of that so I can't help but think that people and safety are their top concerns with their most numerous resource.

For every trailer towing with ST tires, they are matched with LT tires on the the TV. Yet it's the ST's that have blown out on me. I've never had a blow out until I started towing trailers. I have a question for the those using the G rated tires. Are you changing out the rims as well? I don't think the rims that came with my Cyclone can take 110 PSI so if I go to the RIB or G16's won't I also have to get new rims? This starts to drive the cost way up.