My Ladder Broke!

[mobilcastle]

I have one that is cracked and I decided not to use it so I carry a collapsible one. I wonder if sunlight weakens the capps-UV problem? I am now using mine to hold my satellite dish when parked.

 

[danemayer]

I also climb my ladder all the time. In the winter, sometimes 2 or 3 times per day. And I weigh 260. If I were worried about the ladder suddenly disintegrating, I wouldn't use it. But I also don't want to have to repair damage caused by cracking endcaps or flexing standoffs. So yes, I have done some mods so that I can use the ladder without damaging it. And yes, I'd be delighted if a future RV came with a ladder that didn't need mods. In the meantime, I still have to get up on the roof on this RV.

I carry an extension ladder that I could use to get on the roof. But it seems to me that it's way more dangerous to transfer from extension ladder to roof and back than to use the RV's ladder. Btw, I use the extension ladder primarily to install and remove slide topper supports in the winter and sometimes for cleaning the front and rear caps.

 

[MTPockets]

Why is it always assumed that when someone has a problem everybody has a problem??

"all the reported problems" how may problems??? Compared to how many thousands sold without problem.

Sure, when something happens to me it's a BIG DEAL but that doesn't necessarily mean it's an industry wide problem.

I just wish when these things are talked about some perspective was used.

The perspective is that those with the problem are ignored! God bless those without the problem. The problem does exist and just because there are many satisfied with the ladder doesn't make the problem a non issue. It's just so curious to me why either Atwood or Heartland can't chime in and tell the flimsey ladder owners what they are doing to come up with a solution. If you don't need a solution, why stir the pot?

 

[jbeletti]

I'm in no position to speak for Heartland Engineering or Purchasing, but I can give my feedback here.

Early on with Heartland, like 2005, 2006 and maybe a bit later, the white two-piece ladder was used. It was very strong. I had one.

Ladder used on early Landmarks

At some point, we moved over to the silver Atwood ladder. I'm a heavy guy and I put a real big vertical load on my ladder. Am I comfortable doing so? No - I am not, but I don't carry another tall ladder, so I have to use the RV ladder.

One thing I can give an update on is the mounts where the ladder is fixed to the coach. Better mounts are now being used in current production. It's a cast round plate with a round collar on it. The ladder standoffs that mount to the coach are round and fit into the collar on the new plate.

Ladder standoff mounts used on current (>August 2014) Landmarks

On any new coach, when I first use my ladder, I notice right away, the flat plates that are screwed to the rear cap begin to distort as the vertical load I put on the ladder gets transferred to the standoffs that are attached to the flat plate.

It's my hope that the new mount translates into a stronger ladder system. If anyone reading this thread has a new coach built in the last month or so, please go check your ladder where the standoffs mount to the rear cap. If you have the newer style mounting system I described above, please give your review of the system.

 

[codycarver]

why stir the pot?

Huh? I thought the point here was an exchange of thoughts and ideas.

You say flimsy and I say mine is fine.

My point is that the number of problems may be minute compared to the numbers in use. I don't know the answer and neither do you. It would just be nice to be able to back up a claim with facts. Seems to me with the number of personal injury lawyers in this country these manufactures would have there collective caboose's armor plated.


I'd like to know the answers with real numbers and sources. That's all I'm asking for.

May GOD bless all of us.

 

[Lynn1130]

JMHO but it seems this thread took a 90 somewhere. The questions were, the weight capacity of the ladder and is there an aftermarket available. It might be nice to see some of the fixes that I have seen mentioned here and on other similar threads put into the area which contains other fixes, ideas and maintenance.

I don't have a problem but then I too am about 100 lbs lighter than those that do. My ladder might fail the next time I use it and some suggestions for beefing it up would be helpful.

 

[campers2]

My ladder has a stamp on it that states 300 lb cap.
I don't have figures but it appears many are over loading the ladder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[danemayer]

Here's a link to my ladder mods.

Perhaps others can come up with better ideas.

 

[travelin2]

I agree. If we all lived in a perfect world we'd have nothing to b--- h about! How dull would that be !!!

Why is it always assumed that when someone has a problem everybody has a problem??

"all the reported problems" how may problems??? Compared to how many thousands sold without problem.

Sure, when something happens to me it's a BIG DEAL but that doesn't necessarily mean it's an industry wide problem.

I just wish when these things are talked about some perspective was used.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gebills]

I’ve been up our ladder less than a dozen times as it wasintended to use (meaning without outside support). I do currently use it at a leaning post orplace to stabilize my extension ladder when I need to go on top. When the ladder was new and I would climbatop, I could see the stabilizer bars attached to the coach stressing downwardand knew its usage would be limited. Currently I let the grandkids under 60 lbs play on it, and as mentioned,use it to stabilize my extension ladder when I go on top. My weight is roughly 240 lbs. and the laddersimply is not intended to handle this much weight without other support such asdanemayer and several others have suggested.

 

[Jim.Allison]

There has been a survey going on for the past couple of weeks of the average age of heartland owners on the HOF. Have you not seen it?

I guess I don't have any sense. I've been going up and down our ladder since we bought or Bighorn without incident weighing in at 225 more or less over the last 4 years. I'd be interested in knowing your source for the average age of a Heartland owner.

 

[codycarver]

I did see it...even participated. It's a small sample of Heartland owners who use this forum. I doubt it's accuracy in overall Heartland sales though.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Its not ludicrous, you just don't like my verbiage, but since you brought it up it is really satire designed to point out how bad the ladder is. Try not to make this a personal discussion, my opinion and verbiage is just as valid as yours is.

Jim.Allison I love my "useless decoration" and use it all the time as I did on my previous four fivers. While I agree that the ladders in the RV industry need to be improved to call them useless decoration is ludicrous.

 

[Jim.Allison]

I wont get on it, especially if I weighed 300 lbs. But since it has been brought it up, if it is rated for 300 lbs, then it should have a service factor to an actual 450 at least. How would you feel if an elevator was rated for 2000 lbs and 12 grown men got on board? Any piece of equipment, especially something that supports a human being has a service factor and a destruct point. The question is would you buy a ladder built like this to use around the house? No you would not. Most step ladders are rated for 250 lbs, a 230 lb man and a full paint bucket or a 30 lb tool belt defeat that rating on a daily basis. Heavy people use them all the time albeit not wise to do so. We have not even spoken about the shock load that occurs when you take that first step from the pavement onto the atwood ladder. Even a 150 lb man can exert 300 lbs on that first step. As far as design is concerned. The ladder on my rig is not designed to take daily use of anyone weighing 300 lbs. It is funny that I use a 250 lb step ladder to access the top of my fiver, refusing to use the 300 lb ladder designed and dedicated for that purpose.

 

[Jim.Allison]

I will jump through your hoop. Your question was "what was the source of my info?" The source of my info is the HOF, the complaints here are HOF complaints so I might say that it is proportional in that regard. But I will acquiesce to your observation and make this statement. A statistic taken from those that answered a poll concerning the average age of a Heartland RV owner, revealed that a wide margin of respondents were above 55 years of age. It is noteworthy that it is not an official poll and that not all the respondents own and Attwood ladder.

Good sams says 60 is average for all RV owners, RV road trips says most owners are over 55.

I did see it...even participated. It's a small sample of Heartland owners who use this forum. I doubt it's accuracy in overall Heartland sales though.

 

[danemayer]

I've spent some time looking at the ladder problems and experimenting with it. Let's see if we can divide this discussion a bit.

The OP in this thread had a failure where the ladder railing broke. I think that's the 2nd one of those I can recall hearing about in 4 years. And whether it's 2 or 3 or 10, it's a very small number. I don't think this is the primary problem about which people are concerned. And if that is your primary concern, I would suggest that your concern is based on very thin evidence.

There was a very frequent problem 3 and 4 years ago where the end caps on the rungs would crack, allowing the supporting screw to bend, which allowed the rung to sag. I seem to recall that Atwood redesigned the end caps at that time because the shape of the head of the screw was stressing the plastic, contributing to the cracking. It's evident from continuing reports, that the cracking still happens, but in my view, the number of complaints has dropped dramatically. And I don't think I ever heard of a catastrophic failure at the rungs - rather it just needed to have an end cap replaced.

The third problem is the flex when weight is put on the ladder. The flex occurs at the first 90 degree bend as the ladder comes up from the roof and turns to the rear. That movement allows flexing of the horizontal standoffs and causes the standoff mounting screws to loosen. Unchecked, it just gets worse and worse and anyone would feel like the ladder was about to fail.

My observations and experimentation argues that the flex is not a "flimsy ladder" problem. If the ladder were stronger and didn't flex, the force would be transferred to the roof mount. The current roof would require a significant reinforcement to permit use of a stronger and less flexible ladder.

The overall problem appears to me to be one of how to distribute the 300 lb loading so that nothing breaks or gets loose.

The change that Jim B. reported in post #24 of this thread, at first appeared to be an attempt to improve the weight distribution by adding more surface area and additional screws to the standoff mounts. I looked at the pictures a 2nd time and noticed that the top section of the ladder curves around and meets the rear cap, and then the vertical section is attached to the top section.

It appears to me that by mounting the top section of the ladder to both the roof and the rear cap, the load will be distributed much better, reducing or eliminating the flex. The improvement in the standoff mounts will probably take care of the rest of the problem.

If this change is introduced across the product line, I predict ladder complaints will start to taper off pretty quickly.

 

[MTPockets]

I've spent some time looking at the ladder problems and experimenting with it. Let's see if we can divide this discussion a bit.

The OP in this thread had a failure where the ladder railing broke. I think that's the 2nd one of those I can recall hearing about in 4 years. And whether it's 2 or 3 or 10, it's a very small number. I don't think this is the primary problem about which people are concerned. And if that is your primary concern, I would suggest that your concern is based on very thin evidence.

There was a very frequent problem 3 and 4 years ago where the end caps on the rungs would crack, allowing the supporting screw to bend, which allowed the rung to sag. I seem to recall that Atwood redesigned the end caps at that time because the shape of the head of the screw was stressing the plastic, contributing to the cracking. It's evident from continuing reports, that the cracking still happens, but in my view, the number of complaints has dropped dramatically. And I don't think I ever heard of a catastrophic failure at the rungs - rather it just needed to have an end cap replaced.

The third problem is the flex when weight is put on the ladder. The flex occurs at the first 90 degree bend as the ladder comes up from the roof and turns to the rear. That movement allows flexing of the horizontal standoffs and causes the standoff mounting screws to loosen. Unchecked, it just gets worse and worse and anyone would feel like the ladder was about to fail.

My observations and experimentation argues that the flex is not a "flimsy ladder" problem. If the ladder were stronger and didn't flex, the force would be transferred to the roof mount. The current roof would require a significant reinforcement to permit use of a stronger and less flexible ladder.

The overall problem appears to me to be one of how to distribute the 300 lb loading so that nothing breaks or gets loose.

The change that Jim B. reported in post #24 of this thread, at first appeared to be an attempt to improve the weight distribution by adding more surface area and additional screws to the standoff mounts. I looked at the pictures a 2nd time and noticed that the top section of the ladder curves around and meets the rear cap, and then the vertical section is attached to the top section.

It appears to me that by mounting the top section of the ladder to both the roof and the rear cap, the load will be distributed much better, reducing or eliminating the flex. The improvement in the standoff mounts will probably take care of the rest of the problem.

If this change is introduced across the product line, I predict ladder complaints will start to taper off pretty quickly.

I believe this is a fair assessment Dan. My ladder, when I reinforced with two additional sets of standoffs cured the flexing problem. I have, over the course of three years now had 9 plastic end caps break, one at a time, which I replaced. Three I had to purchase from Heartland, and then Atwood supplied me with some at N/C. Later threads where people had the same issues, Atwood replaced some at N/C, while others reported they had to buy them. The flexing can be fixed, and possibly as you point out, the end caps are better now. My only issue is that I've never seen or heard any statements from Heartland or Atwood, except when Atwood responded to my letter with the comment that the complaints were not enough to warrant any action. I am, as we speak a Colorado Campout where the ladder discussion for the majority is that nothing is being done to present a cure, so I just don't get involved in the discussion; or, I just gave up.... I believe that most who have had the concern simply live with it and say nothing as it's their nature and consider it the nature of the beast. That doesn't change the fact that there are some mounting configurations where the ladder needs more support. Believe it or not, all my posts on the subject are really intended to be helpful, and to point out a problem as I see it, not argumentative. If you have a sturdy ladder with no problems, ignore the posts. If not, I would think Heartland would be the one to present the fix so this doesn't keep popping up. My opinion.

 

[danemayer]

Terry,

Now that you have updated information, while you're sitting around the campfire at the Colorado rally, you certainly have opportunity to share what you've learned. The pictures of the change are about as official a notification as I think we'll ever see.

JohnD and other frequent forum visitors will also be at the rally and I'm sure they'll see this thread. You still have time to get out in front of them.

 

[MTPockets]

I missed Jim's post with pic and change, sorry. Sounds like this May end the previous issues. Thanks for the info.

 

[danemayer]

Re-read Jim's post. Now I'm thinking the 1st picture is his old rig and the new change is just the 4 screw mount for the standoffs. If that's right, it's not as good as I thought. But time will tell if it's enough.