Dan - you're re-read is correct. 1st pic is an older (classic) Landmark with what I felt was a superior ladder. 2nd pic is the new mounting plates being used.
Sorry for the confusion. I went back and added image captions
My Ladder Broke!
- Thread starter Georgia_Biker
- Start date
Dan - you're re-read is correct. 1st pic is an older (classic) Landmark with what I felt was a superior ladder. 2nd pic is the new mounting plates being used.
Sorry for the confusion. I went back and added image captions
Georgia_Biker
Well-known member
I contacted Atwood about my breakage. A quick reply informed me the unit only has a 1 year warranty and I could buy a new ladder for $176. plus shipping. Not surprised-
I replied that I have contact them because had I fell from stepping on the rung from it breaking I could have been seriously injured. No reply yet.
I replied that I have contact them because had I fell from stepping on the rung from it breaking I could have been seriously injured. No reply yet.
porthole
Retired
Cyclone ladders mount a little differently. They "hook" to a roof mount, which appears to be sturdy enough. The standoffs are mounted on the side walls and I assume screwed into aluminum structural members. The ladder does flex some, but not as much as many of the rear cap mounted ladders. Personally, I think the ladder on my Cyclone is better then the conventional 5th wheels.
That said, I have repaired broken end caps several times and just recently had a screw holding a standoff break (standoff to ladder).
I'm about 165 and am very careful when climbing it. When at home I usually use a collapsable ladder.
The ladder has a lot of room for improvement. And if I was to order a new trailer today I would order it with a "ladder delete" option.
Recently when introducing myself to HL team member, I was referred to as "oh your that ladder guy"
That didn't sit well as did another comment, but at least someone may be listening.
That said, I have repaired broken end caps several times and just recently had a screw holding a standoff break (standoff to ladder).
I'm about 165 and am very careful when climbing it. When at home I usually use a collapsable ladder.
The ladder has a lot of room for improvement. And if I was to order a new trailer today I would order it with a "ladder delete" option.
Recently when introducing myself to HL team member, I was referred to as "oh your that ladder guy"
That didn't sit well as did another comment, but at least someone may be listening.
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
Thats like the letter I received from Towmax that told me my rig was over loaded. I weighed my rig the other day and found out that wheel position had about 2700 lbs on the ground, nowhere near being overloaded. LOL. The ladder is designed to last one year and to be used about 6 times or not at all in that one year. After that they say they have no obligation to you. ********************
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RoadJunkie
Well-known member
in my experience, Atwood is a tough company to rattle and probably won't respond to hypothetical (what if) scieneros. They will listen to your issue, respond with short answers, essentially won't engage in discussion, and offer you their solution with a quoted price. They are exceptionally trained at this type of interaction.
Check out out this company for a possible replacement: http://www.toplinemfg.com/html/rv-universalrvladder.html
I saw their ladder on a well-built truck camper recently. Sorry, can't remember the brand.
TandT
Founding Utah Chapter Leaders-Retired
I'm a buck sixty five and mine flexes very little when I climb it.
That said, I feel these ladders were designed for occasional access to the roof and not constant traffic.
They certainly don't "over build" these ladders and I feel it is done in part, to keep weight down IMHO.
As Len said, I have only replaced a couple of the plastic inserts after they cracked, mostly from the sun. Trace
That said, I feel these ladders were designed for occasional access to the roof and not constant traffic.
They certainly don't "over build" these ladders and I feel it is done in part, to keep weight down IMHO.
As Len said, I have only replaced a couple of the plastic inserts after they cracked, mostly from the sun. Trace
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Jim.Allison
Well-known member
My satire was edited because it failed to pass muster. Satire is just that, and represent no particular matter or any threat of action. That having been said, what I meant to say is this; is there an organization that we can join so that we can interface collectively with manufactures of rv products so that we consumers, and the manufacturers can come together in the spirit of providing a better and more useful product, that would remain profitable and yet useful to the rving community? I realize that it is difficult for manufacturers to understand real world problems with their products, despite all their testing and efforts to provide a quality product. Without feedback from the consumer, they can never know how they can improve, unless they are presented with the real world problems.
For20hunter
Pacific Region Directors-Retired
Jim,
I think what you just described is what Heartland and the Heartland Owners Club does. If you think that they do not pay attention or make changes to their product lines based on this forum and the feedback they get from their owners you are greatly mistaken. Not every issue that each owner has can be fixed or the product lines altered in a timely manner. After having had 6 RV's from 4 different product lines, I can honestly say that this forum and Heartland RV's has the best customer service I have come across in this industry, bar none! On top of that, this owners forum is the best in the market as well. Sure there are a lot of individuals here that are loyal to the brand, myself included, but that loyalty is well deserved in my opinion!
The reality is that the entire RV Industry and their quality control could definitely use some improvement, but understand that in doing so that creates more cost per unit. Heartland is always improving their lines and I think listening to the customer. They truly want repeat customers and it shows when you talk to them.
Heartland can not control their dealers and the service they provide as they are independent owners and are able to run their own dealerships and repair facilities they way they see fit.
In this case, there are some people that have complained about issues with the ladder, and the 300 pound weight rating is probably overrated, however Heartland RV's does not set that weight rating, that is set by the manufacturer. In addition, Heartland is and has been making changes to try and improve the ladder and make it more stable.
Like other have said in this thread, there are FAR more people that do not have problems with their ladders than do, and Heartland and Atwood have to evaluate that when considering changes to their product lines.
This entire thread has gone way off course and should probably be redirected back to the original questions and the nature of his ladders failure, which was not the issues that are causing most of the complaints about the ladders to begin with.
I contacted Heartland and they said that they do sell the new Landmark mounting plates, which they claim make a big difference in the stability of the ladders.
Good luck all and safe travels!
I think what you just described is what Heartland and the Heartland Owners Club does. If you think that they do not pay attention or make changes to their product lines based on this forum and the feedback they get from their owners you are greatly mistaken. Not every issue that each owner has can be fixed or the product lines altered in a timely manner. After having had 6 RV's from 4 different product lines, I can honestly say that this forum and Heartland RV's has the best customer service I have come across in this industry, bar none! On top of that, this owners forum is the best in the market as well. Sure there are a lot of individuals here that are loyal to the brand, myself included, but that loyalty is well deserved in my opinion!
The reality is that the entire RV Industry and their quality control could definitely use some improvement, but understand that in doing so that creates more cost per unit. Heartland is always improving their lines and I think listening to the customer. They truly want repeat customers and it shows when you talk to them.
Heartland can not control their dealers and the service they provide as they are independent owners and are able to run their own dealerships and repair facilities they way they see fit.
In this case, there are some people that have complained about issues with the ladder, and the 300 pound weight rating is probably overrated, however Heartland RV's does not set that weight rating, that is set by the manufacturer. In addition, Heartland is and has been making changes to try and improve the ladder and make it more stable.
Like other have said in this thread, there are FAR more people that do not have problems with their ladders than do, and Heartland and Atwood have to evaluate that when considering changes to their product lines.
This entire thread has gone way off course and should probably be redirected back to the original questions and the nature of his ladders failure, which was not the issues that are causing most of the complaints about the ladders to begin with.
I contacted Heartland and they said that they do sell the new Landmark mounting plates, which they claim make a big difference in the stability of the ladders.
Good luck all and safe travels!
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
Like I said that whole comment was satirical and still is. I researched my rig before I bought it and Im happy with it. but it is funny that the only two real problems that I have had with it are the ladder and the blowmax tires, which seem to be the chief complaint on the forum.
As far a making mistakes about Heartlands intentions, you can rest assured that I am not mistaken about any of Heartlands motivations to be in business building and selling RVs. It is a profit making business and they are in it for money, they provide a product and where the value of their product meets the price I'm willing to pay the sale is made. They are not over there eking out a living building these rigs. They build a good one and I paid good money for it, but they could have gone the extra step and demanded that their ladder and tires supplier provide them with a little better product. And from that standpoint they are in the same boat we are, the industry provides only so much variety/product. Otherwise there would be a bolt up aftermarket replacement for the ladder or a kit to fix it. That does not seem to be the case.
As far a making mistakes about Heartlands intentions, you can rest assured that I am not mistaken about any of Heartlands motivations to be in business building and selling RVs. It is a profit making business and they are in it for money, they provide a product and where the value of their product meets the price I'm willing to pay the sale is made. They are not over there eking out a living building these rigs. They build a good one and I paid good money for it, but they could have gone the extra step and demanded that their ladder and tires supplier provide them with a little better product. And from that standpoint they are in the same boat we are, the industry provides only so much variety/product. Otherwise there would be a bolt up aftermarket replacement for the ladder or a kit to fix it. That does not seem to be the case.
jimtoo
Moderator
Re: Asptsman
Hi Asptsman,
Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and to the family. We have a great bunch of folks here with lots of information and all willing to share their knowledge when needed.
Thanks for your solution to the ladder discussion. I think several others have done the same,, but with other materials. When you get a chance you might post a picture of your cure.
Jim M
Hi Asptsman,
Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and to the family. We have a great bunch of folks here with lots of information and all willing to share their knowledge when needed.
Thanks for your solution to the ladder discussion. I think several others have done the same,, but with other materials. When you get a chance you might post a picture of your cure.
Jim M
For20hunter
Pacific Region Directors-Retired
And they have. It is my understanding that they now put Carlyle tires on them and have made changes and upgrades to stiffen up the ladder. We talk, they listen. Even though far less of us are talking and expressing our dislike for the ladder and tires than who aren't.
Don't get me wrong, those tires were terrible and I swapped them out as soon as I got both of our Heartland fivers with 17.5's and G114's. I have personally not had any issues with the ladder yet on either the Bighorn or now the Landmark, but I weigh 180 so I might not have an issue with it.
Again, safe travels all!
porthole
Retired
Just got home from my bike trip and looked at my ladder. The Cyclone was built in July 2009. The ladder has 4 stand off brackets mounted to the side, all with four screws. I always thought at least back then that the Cyclone plant turned out a better product overall then the other plants.
So, along with 4 standoffs, the Cyclone ladder is made removable because it mounts on the side. The top of the ladder hooks to a single rung that transfer the main load of the ladder vertically, directly to the roof. The standoff legs still flex some, but no where near as much as they do on the conventional ladders.
The aftermarket ladder linked to above has rungs that are held in place with a screw through the rung and the ladder tube. That has to be a superior design to attaching a rung with a screw through a plastic insert.
Not sure what brand ladder is on the Cyclone, but the free caps Atwood was giving away at Goshen last year do not fit my ladder.
Re: Asptsman
i have a 2014 big horn and i weigh #280…i saw this discussion right after i got my rig. i walked around are park of 350 sites and checked every heartland product found 27 trailers and everyone had the issue of the bent down standoffs as well as many other brands with the same attwood ladder. i knew at that time not to use the ladder for anything more than a rack to hang my towel drying rack to. can't believe everyone of those rigs have guys my size using them …as far as the crappy tires and ladder being a price point saver , how about getting rid of the FORCED OPTION …$639 remote and apply it to some quality upgrades?
i have a 2014 big horn and i weigh #280…i saw this discussion right after i got my rig. i walked around are park of 350 sites and checked every heartland product found 27 trailers and everyone had the issue of the bent down standoffs as well as many other brands with the same attwood ladder. i knew at that time not to use the ladder for anything more than a rack to hang my towel drying rack to. can't believe everyone of those rigs have guys my size using them …as far as the crappy tires and ladder being a price point saver , how about getting rid of the FORCED OPTION …$639 remote and apply it to some quality upgrades?
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
SeattleLion
Well-known member
Re: Asptsman
There are two different threads here:
One is the issue with the ladder being too flimsy to safely use. I have to agree. I bought a folding ladder after I put one foot on the one on our Bighorn. Sorry, just not safe as far as I am concerned. It surprises me that this particular item is so weak. ***
The second issue is quality. First of all, adding better QC wouldn't add cost to the unit. If every unit needs warranty work, something Heartland customer service admitted to me, then I can assure you that Heartland is spending hundreds of dollars per unit for dealer quality fixes. On my unit alone, the bill must be in the thousands by now. How much does it cost to do better QC? My experience in other industries is that it would cost less than $300/unit. The value in marketing alone would more than pay for that. The real cost to Heartland is the reduced throughput as defective coaches get fixed. That should be incentive to do the work right the first time.
The biggest quality question has to do with why Heartland sources that Atwood ladder. My guess is that there aren't that many customer complaints that reach Heartland customer service. So, from Heartland's view, the ladder is fine. ******
There are two different threads here:
One is the issue with the ladder being too flimsy to safely use. I have to agree. I bought a folding ladder after I put one foot on the one on our Bighorn. Sorry, just not safe as far as I am concerned. It surprises me that this particular item is so weak. ***
The second issue is quality. First of all, adding better QC wouldn't add cost to the unit. If every unit needs warranty work, something Heartland customer service admitted to me, then I can assure you that Heartland is spending hundreds of dollars per unit for dealer quality fixes. On my unit alone, the bill must be in the thousands by now. How much does it cost to do better QC? My experience in other industries is that it would cost less than $300/unit. The value in marketing alone would more than pay for that. The real cost to Heartland is the reduced throughput as defective coaches get fixed. That should be incentive to do the work right the first time.
The biggest quality question has to do with why Heartland sources that Atwood ladder. My guess is that there aren't that many customer complaints that reach Heartland customer service. So, from Heartland's view, the ladder is fine. ******
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Re: Asptsman
like i said in my post ….27 heartland products thats 100% of the ladders in our park were bent . i tend to think they are ignoring it as they are with the tires….seems criminal to me
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
I dont think that they are providing different tires at this point. Nor different ladders.
MTPockets
Well-known member
If you look at Jim Biletti's response with pics on this thread, he does state that Heartland changed the ladder mount.
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
Terry,
Now that you have updated information, while you're sitting around the campfire at the Colorado rally, you certainly have opportunity to share what you've learned. The pictures of the change are about as official a notification as I think we'll ever see.
JohnD and other frequent forum visitors will also be at the rally and I'm sure they'll see this thread. You still have time to get out in front of them.
Yes!
Terry was our neighbor at the rally!
In the pic below . . . that is Terry's truck in the background!
I seem to recall a conversation at one of the campfires about the ladders, although since we don't have a ladder on our Trail Runner I didn't sit in on that one.
I've contemplated having a ladder installed, but since we have the rear bumper bike rack, it would have to be on the side of the trailer, and I don't want to add any more width to the trailer.
Plus, after reading all of the bad press around here about them, I think I'll just start carrying my 8-foot step ladder on the bike rack instead.
