My Saga Continues

[BarneyFife]

First, let me say this is not a "bash" post. But I always like to post when things go well and likewise, when things don't. That's a big reason we have these forums, isn't it? So here goes.

We bought our new 2011 370C one year ago from RV Outlet in Ringgold, Va. Ever since then, its been the biggest love/hate relationship we've had in our 8 years of RVing. In the first year of ownership, we've been to RV Outlet four times (200 miles per round-trip) for service. The brakes have been the biggest disappointment but in addition, two water pumps, countless interior trim molding coming undone, door molding popping out, interior and exterior doors getting way out of alignment, wallpaper peeling, winterization hose installed improperly, and the black tank flush connection flooded the pass-through storage compartment the first time we used it. All in all, this has been the worst camper we've ever owned when it comes to initial quality. Ironically, it was twice as expensive as any camper we've ever owned.

On the other hand, we've had some good times. We race ATVs as a family and as we all know, RVing is far better than staying at hotels. Its also a beautiful camper and when hooked up to the 450, we always get the nods and "thumbs up" both at the track and on the interstates.

A month ago, I posted a response to someone's thread titled "Considering purchasing a Cyclone 3712CK vs a Fuzion". My response was this:

We bought a new 370C last May from RV Outlet. Great group of folks if that's where you're shopping.

After about a month or so, our 370C's brakes went almost completely dead. The best description I can give is the brakes performed like the controller was set on 2 while it was set on maximum in the truck. Took the dealer three separate attempts to find the solution. I spoke with Heartland twice on the phone and their attitude was "Its Dexter's axles, its Dexter's problem". I was extremely unimpressed with Heartland's "we don't care" attitude; especially over an issue as big as failing brakes on a 15,000 lb, $55,000 brand new camper.

Fortunately, the people at Dexter were top notch and they finally helped RV Outlet replace the defective parts to an upgrade and all is well. We like our 370C and use it often. But with some other small "quality issues" and Heartland's poor customer service with us, we'll definitely look more at the Fuzions, Raptors, and Voltages next time around.

 

[BarneyFife]

After that posting, AJ from Heartland responded with this:

I am sorry if you have had a bad experience, but I an assure you that it is not the norm. We pride our selves on great quality and service. I would like to know about the issues that you have had if you don't mind private massaging me or contacting me at the factory, just ask for AJ.

Thanks,

Aj Jones

So I'm thinking "Wow". Someone from Heartland who actually cares. Let me take the time to tell him how our initial Heartland experience has gone. So I send him a private message.

 

[BarneyFife]

Here's my private message:

Hey AJ,

Hey. Thanks for responding. As you can tell for us, having someone from Heartland hasn't been our typical experience but I also see far more people have been well pleased when they had issues. Thanks for your concern about our first year of ownership with our 370C.

We bought our 370C from RV Outlet in Ringgold, Va. back in early May, 2011. We've been RVing since 2004 but this was our first toy hauler and our first fifth wheel. I have a class A CDL license but have never had a fifth wheel camper.

On our third camping trip (we race ATVs) about two months after our purchase, our brakes quickly became virtually non-existent. We had recently bought a new F450 so I wondered if it was the truck. But after being checked twice by Ford, we were getting proper power out of the Ford controller. I called BJ at RV Outlet and he said bring it up there because he felt fairly confident what it was. Our Cyclone was delivered to the dealership during the winter and it was so nasty from salt and road grime, I hesitated buying that particular one. But John at RV Outlet had assured me they'd clean it up with an acid treatment and we'd have no problems. But BJ believed our brakes had grime and rust in the springs and if they were cleaned up well and lubricated, it would work as good as new.

A week after we dropped it off, it was ready to come back to NC. Our our way home, I realized this first trip for service was a failure. Again, my brake controller was on ten yet the brakes of the Cyclone could barely be felt. This is when I first called Heartland. I spoke with a young lady and although she certainly wasn't rude, it was clear she felt this was not a Heartland problem and she gave me the phone number to Dexter and Lippert.

I called BJ back and we scheduled a time to bring it back again. BJ had said they saw during that first service, our backing plates on the brakes were coated in grease and he was now thinking the cleaning did not sufficiently do the job. They were going to replace the pads and make sure the brakes were properly adjusted. I took the camper up to Va. again and this is what they planned. The following week, I went back to pick it up and we tested it before leaving. Fortunately I was able to keep my cool because the brakes still were pretty much useless. By this time, they wouldn't even lock up the wheels in their gravel lot while the camper was completely empty.

So, I told him I'd bring it back in November after the race season ended and they could keep it for an extended period of time since we had no trips planned for awhile. I figured I'd just be sure to leave LOTS of braking room during our trips. In November, I called and BJ asked if we could wait until December because they were swamped with RVs on the lot for repair. We agreed and on December 1, I drove back to Va. to leave the Cyclone for awhile. Before this third trip to Va., I called you folks again and a young gentleman pretty much told me the same thing: "You need to contact Dexter because the axles are covered under their warranty."

BJ had talked with Dexter Axles and a lady there told him they had had some similar experiences with other larger toy haulers and on one customer's Raptor, they swapped the three 6K axles for three 7K axles. Once they did that, the customer said the brakes worked great. BJ said he called Heartland to see if you folks would pay to have this done and Heartland told him "No". Again, "this was a Dexter problem." He called Dexter back and a gentleman at Dexter offered to send him the entire braking setup for the 7,000 lb. axles. Supposedly, they fit the 6K axles but are made up entirely of different materials for the heavier braking. He also tested the wiring to make sure the proper amperage was getting to the axles. If you in put the wiring gauge, the distance traveled, the volts required, and the amount of brakes into a proper electrical calculation, it "says" our braking systems should be using 8 gauge wire instead of the traditional 12 and 14 gauge most often used.

In late January after seven weeks, we went back to Va. to pick up the Cyclone. The new brakes worked far better before. BJ said he even pulled it 36 miles doing the proper burnishing procedure specifically recommended by Dexter. He was really trying hard to make this work after all we had been through. He did say they were also getting the proper amperage to the brakes. And so far, they're much better. Although not nearly as good as the brakes on our past travel trailers, at least now I don't feel like the Cyclone is trying its best to push us through intersections and in harder stops, its giving the F450 some help and not making the truck do all the work.

During these three trips for service, we've also had them do some "punch work" repairs. Doors not lined up properly so they wouldn't stay closed and the outside doors wouldn't deadbolt. Trim work around both outside doors coming off due to the staples not holding. Wallpaper peeling off in various places. Our winterization hose was installed incorrectly so it couldn't be pulled out to suck RV antifreeze from a jug. Our black tank flush connection wasn't hooked up so when we first used it, water started flooding the pass-through storage compartment. Our Shur-Flo water pump failed at one of our races.

I do realize some of these issues are not Heartland products: Dexter axles, Shur-Flo pumps, etc. But when I called Heartland and although nobody was rude, I was definitely given the impression I needed to quit bugging Heartland with this and just deal with Dexter. I understand it was Dexter's warranty but Heartland wouldn't even act as a middleman to help us after these repeated attempts to get it fixed. I don't really blame RV Outlet. Although it did take them three attempts and believe me, that drive back and forth costing me over $100 in fuel and wasting a whole day each time was getting really old. But BJ and the guys I feel really tried their best and it was just confusing everyone as to what was the problem.

We really like our 370C. Its a beautiful unit with a great floorplan. It always turns heads and gets the stares and points when we pull up to the races. I also understand any manufacturer of any product will just have one of those units that some mysterious problem pops up that seems to stump most everyone as to what is wrong. But when I'm doing everything I can including spending excessive money and time, my dealer's doing everything they can think of, but the manufacturer just wants me go away, I hope you can understand my feelings. Its good to see others have had positive results when they've had problems.

Maybe I just got really unlucky multiple times. Maybe I got a unit built on Friday afternoon when everyone was just ready to go home. Maybe both times I called Heartland, it was just a bad day and nobody was in a good mood. Who knows?

Thanks for your concern. I wish you and I would have met on the forums back around July, 2011.

James XXXXXXX
Garner, NC 27529





Here's AJ's response.

I will contact service right away to see if there is anything we can do.

 

[BarneyFife]

Well, tomorrow makes one month since that PM and response. As you can guess, I have received no word from anyone at Heartland. Maybe they realized my warranty expired last week so I'm out of their hair. I always felt that's what they wanted and now they've put me off long enough, they made it.

Again, I'm not going to sit here and bash anyone, slander or name call, or anything like that. But I'm just going to post the facts and let the readers be the judge.

I read a few posts of folks really happy with their experience with Heartland and I think that's fantastic. We all love RVing and when your manufacturer takes care of you, it makes it that much better.

But I stand behind my earlier posting: When its time to let this camper go, Raptors, Fuzions, Voltages, etc. will be the only things we look to purchase.

No manufacturer can make a perfect product every single time but when they seem to not care one bit about a customer and their manufacturing problems, that bad taste lasts a mighty long time. What's worse, what do you think I tell those folks who want to come look at our "cool" toy hauler at the races. I have to tell them the truth and they quickly stop thinking its such a "cool" toy hauler then.

 

[71stang99]

Your trailer is not the only one on here to have issues with the brakes. Ive had to have my 09 F350 integrated brake controller up to 9.5 to feel any sort of braking power and I am not alone. There are at least two others who reported the same problems and one even replaced the wires to 10 gauge (I think) and this was after dealing with the dealer. Do a search for 300c and braking it should populate. Its sad as I had issues with my 300c and Heartland has been responsive but I did not address the brakes as the trailer sat for 10 months while on military activation so its now out of warranty.

 

[Wharton]

I have read about the brake problems several times and, it seems to me, to be trucks with the integrated brake controller. I'm not saying that is the problem but it might be. Except for magnets going unexpectedly trailer brakes have always functioned fine and we have been trailering for 40 years. We have always had a separate brake controller, none of our trucks has ever come with a brake controller.

 

[BarneyFife]

I have read about the brake problems several times and, it seems to me, to be trucks with the integrated brake controller. I'm not saying that is the problem but it might be. Except for magnets going unexpectedly trailer brakes have always functioned fine and we have been trailering for 40 years. We have always had a separate brake controller, none of our trucks has ever come with a brake controller.

I was definitely looking at the integrated controller in my earlier attempts to find the problem. But three things ruled that out.

1. The truck was checked for proper voltage at the 7-pin connector.

2. RV Outlet used their old Chevrolet 3500 work truck with its aftermarket controller to test the brakes. Same result.

3. One time I pulled the Cyclone down my driveway around 15 mph and had my son yank out the breakaway cable. This would put the camper's battery powering the brakes to full. Same result. At 15 mph, it probably took 75-100 feet to come to a stop.

As I said in my PM to AJ Jones, the brakes are much better now, thanks to Dexter and RV Outlet. They had to be upgraded but at least for now, they're functional. My whole point with this thread is Heartland's attitude toward me as a customer. From the first phone call to this latest "private message", its felt like they just want me to go away and quit bothering them.

 

[danemayer]

Hi Barneyfife,

On this issue of Heartland pointing you to Dexter: there's been some prior discussion on the general topic of dealer fulfillment of warranty, and who does what, and how much the owner gets caught in the middle. I think my conclusion is that on RVs across the industry, the agreements between manufacturers and dealers is much weaker than in the auto industry. We're all used to the idea that we can take our Ford to any Ford dealer and expect and get good warranty service. In contrast, RV dealers may say no to us. On cars, we are used to the idea that the dealer/manufacturer stand behind all of the subassemblies, no matter who made them. But in the RV industry, some parts of the warranty go through the subassembly manufacturer. No owner likes this arrangement.

From the manufactuer point of view, if you take your rig to your dealer for warranty service, the dealer should hide all the complexity. If Heartland provides the warranty, the dealer gets authorization and file the claim with Heartland. But if the Dexter brakes are the problem, the dealer gets authorization from and files the claim with Dexter. If things go well, you never know the details.

When the dealer doesn't solve the problem, the owner has to take a next step which is usally to call Heartland. I've done that a few times myself. In fact, I had a problem with Dexter's brakes and called Heartland because in the middle of a long trip, the brakes got so bad I was afraid to take the unit anywhere. Yes, Heartland told me to call Dexter. After a few minutes on the phone with Dexter, they agreed to send a nearby truck repair outfit to us to fix the brakes. That wasn't the end of it, but because I wasn't using a dealer to manage the process, I was in the middle, managing both Dexter and the repair shop.

Could Heartland have done this for me. Sure. But since I wasn't using a dealer, would that have made things go faster? I don't see how - just more people in the loop trying to connect with one another. Would it have avoided some of the problems? I don't see how - more people in the loop creates more opportunity for miscommunication. Would it have made me feel better - not in this situation, although I can see some where it would have.

Nevertheless, I think we all would like to see the industry strengthen the dealer agreements so they become more like what the auto industry has. Where we can get warranty service from any Heartland dealer regardless of where we bought. Where we have a single point of contact for all repair work. We know it can be done because the auto industry does it that way.

Maybe one day Thor (Heartland's parent company) will have enough market share to be able to move vendors and dealers in this direction. In the meantime, while we hope the dealer makes the complexity invisible, we sometimes have to jump in with both feet.

 

[rick_debbie_gallant]

What a great time for Heartland and Thor to become the industry leaders in this whole product satisfaction arena. Yes, the folks at Heartland have made a start with Jim B. AND THE OWNERS FORUM, and the quality check lane, but now I believe it is time to take it up another notch! They could take care of the problems asap by contacting customers using the forum as a sort of warningnthat there is a nproblem.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Xparent Red Tapatalk

 

[Jimmy]

So can we here from Heartland on this issue, lets be fair to Heartland, come on Heartland, step up to the plate...

 

[BarneyFife]

So can we here from Heartland on this issue, lets be fair to Heartland, come on Heartland, step up to the plate...

Agree 100%.

 

[djlogan]

I am a Thor product owner (Dutchmen Infinity) and happy former owner of a Bighorn 3610 RE. I wish Dutchmen had the involvement of Heartland owners, especially the incomparable Jim Biletti. I'm still an avid reader of the forum here (several topics are "cross Platform). Heartland is great. (Dutchmen is pretty good too!)

 

[JohnDar]

For Heartland to contact owners via the forum, or any other media. that there is a "problem" would be tantamount to them issuing a recall or service bulletin. To do so would require them to have all HL dealers and authorized mobile repair techs available to remedy the problem at no cost to the owner. None of the "we only service what we sell" bull droppings.

 

[TJfromFL]

Barney, I sure feel for you and can relate. I was supposed to buy a new Rockwood trailer in May 2011 from RV Wholesalers. Traveled from Florida to Ohio to pick it up only to find it was severly damaged on delivery to RVW. After months of negotiation the deal fell thru and I was out several thousand dollars. In Sept 2011 we bought a new North Trail 31RLSS. After the first trip it was returned for a water heater issue and also had the fresh water holding tank replaced. After the second trip it was returned to have the furnace replaced. After the third trip it was returned to have the water pump replaced and after the fourth trip it was returned to have a "leak" fixed in the front of the trailer. The front cap has been replaced, and the flooring removed and replaced in the front. We took it out for the first time since repair last week, and it leaked again from the emergency exit window and some other yet to be identified area. It is now back again getting repair. All this said, Heartland CS has been great to work with so far, you need to keep an active communication going with them. Lets hope things work out well for both of us.

 

[jbeletti]

I am a Thor product owner (Dutchmen Infinity) and happy former owner of a Bighorn 3610 RE. I wish Dutchmen had the involvement of Heartland owners, especially the incomparable Jim Biletti. I'm still an avid reader of the forum here (several topics are "cross Platform). Heartland is great. (Dutchmen is pretty good too!)

We miss you! Thank you for the compliment. Though we're not perfect, we try hard. Enjoy your Infinity and happy camping.

Jim

 

[BarneyFife]

Barney, I sure feel for you and can relate. I was supposed to buy a new Rockwood trailer in May 2011 from RV Wholesalers. Traveled from Florida to Ohio to pick it up only to find it was severly damaged on delivery to RVW. After months of negotiation the deal fell thru and I was out several thousand dollars. In Sept 2011 we bought a new North Trail 31RLSS. After the first trip it was returned for a water heater issue and also had the fresh water holding tank replaced. After the second trip it was returned to have the furnace replaced. After the third trip it was returned to have the water pump replaced and after the fourth trip it was returned to have a "leak" fixed in the front of the trailer. The front cap has been replaced, and the flooring removed and replaced in the front. We took it out for the first time since repair last week, and it leaked again from the emergency exit window and some other yet to be identified area. It is now back again getting repair. All this said, Heartland CS has been great to work with so far, you need to keep an active communication going with them. Lets hope things work out well for both of us.

Wow. I feel your pain. Best of luck with your RV repairs and hopefully, things will get much better. Great to hear you're getting good service.

 

[BarneyFife]

We miss you! Thank you for the compliment. Though we're not perfect, we try hard. Enjoy your Infinity and happy camping.

Jim

Did I just miss something here? Does anyone see the irony with this posting?

 

[JohnDar]

Did I just miss something here? Does anyone see the irony with this posting?

No, why don't you point it out.

 

[BarneyFife]

The "Director of Owners Interests" just posted a "we miss you" and a "thank you" to a poster in this thread. I guess my initial posts didn't warrant any attention from the "Director of Owners Interests".

I swear I haven't done anything to make them mad at me. Maybe I have b o or something.

 

[jayc]

Barney, if you notice, the "Director of Owner Interests" was replying to the djlogan post where he says he is a former owner of a Bighorn and now owns a Thor Dutchmen trailer.