New guy with tire questions

fritzwell

Active Member
Hello, I'm new to the forum and expecting delivery of a 2016 Sundance 3270. I have been reading the stories related here on the faulty tires and damage caused by them. My first question being as a soon to be new owner, is simply replace the factory trash and with what ? From my reading I see a lot of positive & negative on LT tires, so where do we stand ? I've seen the Michelin name mentioned several times, but not much input from anyone running them.

So many questions and so little time.

Fritzwell
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Hi fritzwell,

Congratulations on the new Sundance and welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum. As you've already found, there's lots of useful information here along with a great bunch of friendly and helpful people.

I believe the Sundance 3270 comes with 15" wheels. Most of what you've read about with respect to tire issues is on larger, heavier 5th wheels with 16" wheels. So some of the recommendations that are commonly made may not apply to your trailer.

I'm sure you'll get some helpful advice from other Sundance owners shortly.
 

ncc1701e

Well-known member
Hello, I'm new to the forum and expecting delivery of a 2016 Sundance 3270. I have been reading the stories related here on the faulty tires and damage caused by them. My first question being as a soon to be new owner, is simply replace the factory trash and with what ? From my reading I see a lot of positive & negative on LT tires, so where do we stand ? I've seen the Michelin name mentioned several times, but not much input from anyone running them.

So many questions and so little time.

Fritzwell

First, congratulations on you new coach. Secondly, we pulled our Sundance just over 7500 miles on the original tires. When I took them off in the fall if it was not for all the hype here I could not have found a reason to replace them. I replaced the factory tires with Maxxis 8008 tires. They are several hundred dollars cheaper than the Michelin or G614s. We just got back from Myrtle Beach (750 miles each way) and trailer pulled great with the Maxxis tires.
 

JanAndBill

Well-known member
As Dan pointed out if it has 15" rims, any good Light Truck tire will do a good job, or as the previous poster said the Maxxis is a good choice. The G614 only comes in the 16" I believe.
 

iawoody2

Well-known member
Unless something changed my 2013 Sundance has 16 in wheels. I went with BFG Commercial TAs in LTs. Have about 9000 miles with no problems and no noticeable wear. By the way BFGroodrich is owned by Michelin.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
The 2015 Heartland Sundance, Elkridge and Prowler 5th-wheel trailers we've been looking at all not only have 16 inch tires on them . . . but all of them also have BlowMax's on them!

So much for the rumor that Heartland is no longer using BlowMax tires . . .

If we do get one of them, you can bet good money that we won't pull it out of the dealer's lot with those BlowMax's still on it!
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Looks like some Sundance models have 16" rims. Others may have 15". You should be able to find out about your 3270 by calling Heartland Customer Service at 877-262-8032 / 574-262-8030.

If you want to change out the tires, I'd suggest discussing with your dealer before taking delivery. Perhaps you can work out a deal.
 

JanAndBill

Well-known member
  • GVWR
    13,800 lbs​
  • Dry Weight
    10,715 lbs​
  • Hitch Weight Capacity
    2,265 lbs​
  • Width
    8' 0"​
  • Height
    12' 4"​
  • Length
    36' 11"​
  • Sleeping Capacity
    3-4 People​
  • Axle Count
    (2) 6,000 lbs​
  • Wheels
    ST235/80R16-E​
The 3270 is a lot heavier than I thought, and comes with a 16" rim with an ST trailer tire. Depending on the brand of tire, you might want to change.
 

ncc1701e

Well-known member
  • GVWR
    13,800 lbs​
  • Dry Weight
    10,715 lbs​
  • Hitch Weight Capacity
    2,265 lbs​
  • Width
    8' 0"​
  • Height
    12' 4"​
  • Length
    36' 11"​
  • Sleeping Capacity
    3-4 People​
  • Axle Count
    (2) 6,000 lbs​
  • Wheels
    ST235/80R16-E​
The 3270 is a lot heavier than I thought, and comes with a 16" rim with an ST trailer tire. Depending on the brand of tire, you might want to change.

Almost identical numbers as our Sundance. Watch your tire pressure, have tires balanced, and align the axles, after that enjoy.
 

DocFather

Well-known member
  • GVWR
    13,800 lbs​
  • Dry Weight
    10,715 lbs​
  • Hitch Weight Capacity
    2,265 lbs​
  • Width
    8' 0"​
  • Height
    12' 4"​
  • Length
    36' 11"​
  • Sleeping Capacity
    3-4 People​
  • Axle Count
    (2) 6,000 lbs​
  • Wheels
    ST235/80R16-E​
The 3270 is a lot heavier than I thought, and comes with a 16" rim with an ST trailer tire. Depending on the brand of tire, you might want to change.

Wondering if the axles are underrated. Is this usual? Or are all Heartland rigs rated for the dry weight? Someone advise.
 

ncc1701e

Well-known member
Wondering if the axles are underrated. Is this usual? Or are all Heartland rigs rated for the dry weight? Someone advise.
Depends if you agree with how the engineers figure load weights. Subtract the 12,000# for the axles and the truck gets the rest. If you expect to see enough axles to hold the GVWR, talk to the engineers. I happen to disagree and believe the axles should be 14,000# minimum.
 

JohnD

Moved on to the next thing...
Wondering if the axles are underrated. Is this usual? Or are all Heartland rigs rated for the dry weight? Someone advise.

Well . . . Lippert has sent to our repair shop a brand new set of upgraded axles for our 2 1/2 year old Trail Runner with around 4000 miles on it from us as the originals didn't last.

They will be installed next week!

No charge for the axles, but I do have to pay the labor charges, plus new wheel bearings all around.

Might hold off on the upgraded tires and wheels as we've been looking around and may trade it in for a new trailer (still Heartland, of course).

This is the Elkridge E292 we've been looking at, although we found a Prowler P292 with the exact same layout that we are going to look at this weekend:

2015ElkridgeE292small-IMG_20150424_161502185.jpg

I'm not sure if I want to make the jump to a 5th-wheel . . . yet! :eek:
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Depends if you agree with how the engineers figure load weights. Subtract the 12,000# for the axles and the truck gets the rest. If you expect to see enough axles to hold the GVWR, talk to the engineers. I happen to disagree and believe the axles should be 14,000# minimum.

A larger axle might be better able to withstand the damage that comes from a large pothole or from running over a curb. Maybe. But if you lose camber because of a batch of bad steel, or you burn up a bearing because you don't think the manufacturer's maintenance recommendations are reasonable, a bigger axle won't help.

Engineers select materials that are intended to satisfy the design requirement - and on RVs that means supporting the weight that is actually on the axles, without adding unnecessary weight or cost that would accompany an oversized axle.

So if your trailer has a GVWR of 16,000, you can expect about 20% or 3,200 lbs of that to be pin weight, resting on the truck. The remaining 80%, or 12,800 lbs. rests on the trailer axles. That would mean each axle has to support 6,400 lbs. So on a 16,000 lb trailer, you'll likely see 7,000 lb axles carrying around 6,400 lbs each.

If you don't believe that only 12,800 of the 16,000 lbs is on the axles, try a simple experiment.

Stand on your bathroom scale and see how much you weigh. Then put both hands on a counter and push down. Check your weight while pushing down on the counter. Do you still have the same amount of weight on the scale? Of course not.

Your hands pushing down on the counter are like the pin box pushing down on the truck.

Heartland does offer axle upgrades on many models. So if you're ordering a 16,000 lb trailer that comes with 7,000 lb axles, you can probably upgrade to 8,000 lb axles.
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
John, it's not a rumor. They are phasing them out. But that also means it doesn't happen overnight. I am sure you can negotiate better tires for whatever you decide to purchase. And if you order one built, you can ask for upgraded axles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

fritzwell

Active Member
Thanks to all for the input on my question. The unit has arrived at the dealer in Springfield MO. I had my sister-in- law to a little recon for me today and it in fact has ST23585R16 Power King Tow Max tires. So, my plan for tomorrow will be to contact the salesman and see what options I have at this point. Don't really want to take delivery until something is ironed out. Will keep you updated, thanks again for all your help.
 

DocFather

Well-known member
Thanks to all for the input on my question. The unit has arrived at the dealer in Springfield MO. I had my sister-in- law to a little recon for me today and it in fact has ST23585R16 Power King Tow Max tires. So, my plan for tomorrow will be to contact the salesman and see what options I have at this point. Don't really want to take delivery until something is ironed out. Will keep you updated, thanks again for all your help.

Stand your ground!
 

JanAndBill

Well-known member
If you don't believe that only 12,800 of the 16,000 lbs is on the axles, try a simple experiment.

Stand on your bathroom scale and see how much you weigh. Then put both hands on a counter and push down. Check your weight while pushing down on the counter. Do you still have the same amount of weight on the scale? Of course not.

Your hands pushing down on the counter are like the pin box pushing down on the truck.

You are usually right on but you missed the mark just a little on this one Dan. Pushing down with your hands while standing on a scale is not the same as the loading on a trailer axle/axles. The load on the axles and the load on the king pin, are dependent on the load to either side of the center line of the axles. Move the axles closer to the front of the trailer and more of the load is carried by the axles, move them back and more load goes on the king pin. A more accurate "experiment" would be to hold a 10' board weighing 10 lbs in the center and step on the scale. Your weight would increase by 10lbs, but if you rest one end of the board on the counter and hold the other end while standing on the scale, your weight would only increase 5lbs.
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
And just because you upgrade the axles does not mean it's OK to carry more weight. It just means you will have a greater margin of safety. When we upgraded our axles due to flattening springs and alignment issues, just past our 1 year warranty, we were not overloaded. But in most things RV, if it's not up to the task, I choose to upgrade it (if I can) if I have to replace it.

We've had no issues with alignment, springs or axles bending since we upgraded. We did, however have to replace shackles and our equalizers in 2014 (so they were about 3 years old). One might argue that the stiffer axles/springs + no shocks = a rougher ride for the shackles and equalizers, but who knows? We feel safer with the heavier-duty parts.

Erika
 

BLHFUN

Well-known member
Thanks to all for the input on my question. The unit has arrived at the dealer in Springfield MO. I had my sister-in- law to a little recon for me today and it in fact has ST23585R16 Power King Tow Max tires. So, my plan for tomorrow will be to contact the salesman and see what options I have at this point. Don't really want to take delivery until something is ironed out. Will keep you updated, thanks again for all your help.

RECON! I assume you're dealing with Reliable? Any Recon help you need, just let me know. I'm two miles from these guys and have bought 2 new units from them. Happy to drive over and smack the GM any time you want him smacked. Lol. Also know the finance director pretty well. Find another service department when the times comes.
 
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