Newbie to 5th wheel trailer
- Thread starter swburbguy
- Start date
We are full timers in our Landmark and after two years all our furniture was replaced from the bedroom mattress to the recliners.The materials they are made from were not met for continual use.Our living room furniture is now all real leather and the bedroom mattress is a full residential queen.The recliners and sofa also weigh less than the original.
I'm also a newbie to 5th wheels, I have a bumper pull now and I have no real trouble figuring out the max trailer I can pull. The pin/hitch weight has me confused. Looking the the Big Country BC 3650RL specs, I see GVWR of 15,500, Dry Weight (Taken with a large grain of salt) 11,900, Hitch/Pin Weight 2,350 and Cargo Capacity of 3,600. These figures say that the Hitch Weight doesn't count toward the GVW (15500-11900=3600)? Is this so? How do I figure the GVW? Leave the Pin/Hitch weight out? If I don't then by the time I add Water (Fresh, Black, Grey, Hot) + Propane, I only have 100 pounds for other cargo. The 14,000 pounds of Axle rating also concern me for a 15,500 rated trailer. I'm also not real clear on how Truck towing capacity is figured for 5th wheels. I currently have a 2009 Chevy 2500HD Diesel, I'm not seeing many of the luxury fifth wheel that look suitable for towing with this truck. I found a nice spreadsheet @ http://www.klenger.net/RVing/Towing_Weights/index.html
danemayer
Well-known member
Hi wg5jim,
Everyone is confused by weights at the beginning. GVWR of 15,500 is the maximum allowed weight for the trailer. Exceeding this number will exceed the design capabilities. When thinking about this number, picture the trailer fully loaded with all your gear and then some, plus all your tools in the basement, and all the souvenirs you bought during your trips, water in the tanks, propane on board. Picture the trailer sitting on the scale all by itself.
The dry weight spec is perhaps also an engineering number, but without any cargo or water, and I think without propane. It's also without any options, and may not include "forced options" that are included on every trailer but weren't in the basic design. So you're right to take it with a grain of salt. When the trailer rolls out the factory door, it goes on a scale and the actual weight is taken. A yellow sticker is attached to the door frame showing the actual dry weight as built. Locally added options will increase this number. If you buy typical options like 2nd A/C, you'll probably have something closer to 13,000.
When you add your tools, clothes, dishes, silverware, books, electronics, bedding, toiletries, etc., you'll probably add between 500 and 1000. Add 50 gallons of fresh water and that's another 400. It's pretty easy to get up near 15,000.
When you picture the trailer on the scale, part of the weight is sitting on the axles/wheels, and part is sitting on the front landing jacks. If you hitch to the truck, the weight in front is sitting on the hitch, which is over the rear axle of the truck. On fifth wheels, the hitch generally carries 18-20% of the total weight of the trailer. So if your loaded trailer is at 15,000, there's about 3,000 pounds of that 15,000 sitting on the hitch. The remaining 12,000 is sitting on axles/wheels. That's 6,000 per axle and 3,000 per wheel/tire if weight is evenly distributed. Of course, weight is rarely evenly distributed, so it's helpful to get individual wheel weights if you have the opportunity.
As for the truck, you need to be concerned with towing capacity, which is the ability to pull forward, and vertical load, which is the weight on the hitch/rear axle of the truck. 3/4 and 1 Ton diesels from the 3 majors typically share the same engine and transmission, so the towing capacity is usually similar. If the 350/3500 has a towing capacity of 15,500, the 250/2500 usually is about the same. But different truck configurations do vary. Duallies can have a higher number. Bed length, 2 vs 4WD causes differences, and so forth. But many people find that a 250/2500 has enough towing capacity to pull a 15,500 GVWR fifth wheel.
Vertical load is another matter. A 250/2500 will typically have a much lower payload spec than a 350/3500 and will be significantly overloaded by adding 3,000 pounds to the rear axle. Your payload might be around 2,500 which would have to also include passengers and pets, bed liner, bed cover, the weight of the hitch, any tools and gear you've thrown into the truck.
A lot of people tow these rigs with 250/2500s anyway. Some add airbags to level them out. There are 2 schools of thought on overloading. Some people say they won't do it because it introduces excess wear and tear and could create an unsafe condition. Others say that's a bunch of hoohaw and it actually works fine.
If you want to find out more about matching truck to trailer, visit Fifth Wheel Safe Towing.
Everyone is confused by weights at the beginning. GVWR of 15,500 is the maximum allowed weight for the trailer. Exceeding this number will exceed the design capabilities. When thinking about this number, picture the trailer fully loaded with all your gear and then some, plus all your tools in the basement, and all the souvenirs you bought during your trips, water in the tanks, propane on board. Picture the trailer sitting on the scale all by itself.
The dry weight spec is perhaps also an engineering number, but without any cargo or water, and I think without propane. It's also without any options, and may not include "forced options" that are included on every trailer but weren't in the basic design. So you're right to take it with a grain of salt. When the trailer rolls out the factory door, it goes on a scale and the actual weight is taken. A yellow sticker is attached to the door frame showing the actual dry weight as built. Locally added options will increase this number. If you buy typical options like 2nd A/C, you'll probably have something closer to 13,000.
When you add your tools, clothes, dishes, silverware, books, electronics, bedding, toiletries, etc., you'll probably add between 500 and 1000. Add 50 gallons of fresh water and that's another 400. It's pretty easy to get up near 15,000.
When you picture the trailer on the scale, part of the weight is sitting on the axles/wheels, and part is sitting on the front landing jacks. If you hitch to the truck, the weight in front is sitting on the hitch, which is over the rear axle of the truck. On fifth wheels, the hitch generally carries 18-20% of the total weight of the trailer. So if your loaded trailer is at 15,000, there's about 3,000 pounds of that 15,000 sitting on the hitch. The remaining 12,000 is sitting on axles/wheels. That's 6,000 per axle and 3,000 per wheel/tire if weight is evenly distributed. Of course, weight is rarely evenly distributed, so it's helpful to get individual wheel weights if you have the opportunity.
As for the truck, you need to be concerned with towing capacity, which is the ability to pull forward, and vertical load, which is the weight on the hitch/rear axle of the truck. 3/4 and 1 Ton diesels from the 3 majors typically share the same engine and transmission, so the towing capacity is usually similar. If the 350/3500 has a towing capacity of 15,500, the 250/2500 usually is about the same. But different truck configurations do vary. Duallies can have a higher number. Bed length, 2 vs 4WD causes differences, and so forth. But many people find that a 250/2500 has enough towing capacity to pull a 15,500 GVWR fifth wheel.
Vertical load is another matter. A 250/2500 will typically have a much lower payload spec than a 350/3500 and will be significantly overloaded by adding 3,000 pounds to the rear axle. Your payload might be around 2,500 which would have to also include passengers and pets, bed liner, bed cover, the weight of the hitch, any tools and gear you've thrown into the truck.
A lot of people tow these rigs with 250/2500s anyway. Some add airbags to level them out. There are 2 schools of thought on overloading. Some people say they won't do it because it introduces excess wear and tear and could create an unsafe condition. Others say that's a bunch of hoohaw and it actually works fine.
If you want to find out more about matching truck to trailer, visit Fifth Wheel Safe Towing.
Danemayer, thanks for the response. That looks like a very helpful web site. I'm pretty sure I'm going to need a 1 Ton truck. The only question is can I get by with a single rear or need a dual. Depends on the trailer. Going to be a big hit to buy a truck and trailer. I'm in the don't overload school of thought.
Morning wg5jim: Referencing your concerns over whether to buy the 1-ton single or 1-ton dually; I bought a new 2500 Ram in 2010, only one year later to start considering pin-weights etc. I made a mistake buying the 2500. Back to the dealer with $10grand to get the 3500 SRW. My thoughts at the time were, I wanted to go with the SRW, as in Seattle, it's a little difficult to get around some city streets with the DRW. Now closer to retirement, and after buying a third vehicle to commute with (much easier to get around the streets with a Yaris), I wish I'd bought the DRW. With the SRW 3500, I'm always border line with the rear axle weight with the BH3455RL. I'm border line enough that I'll probably upgrade to a higher rated tire when I buy tires for the truck. It's a little like "i'm always lookin' over my shoulder" to make certain I'm not carrying too much junk when we travel with the 5'er. FWIW......
Hi! Another factor that my Bro-in Law and fellow RVer, point out is the stopping distance for different tow vehicles. We have a Heartland Sundance which I tow with a single axle Diesel 2500. Lots of power. In Manitoba we have to upgrade our Licence to a class 3, because our RV is over 10000 lbs. Am I ever glad I had to go thru: Medical; Written Test; Road Test, because amongst many things it emphasises anticipation and alertness to minimize stopping distance issues! Good luck!
