Plumbing nightmare

[2010augusta]

Sure hope someone at the factory is reading this one. I am going to check out "behind the walls" tomorrow and see what is up with the jumble of wire and hoses. Perhaps someone was having a bad when this unit went through the final stages of "QC" Hoping that I find everything shipshape on my unit....

Rick and debbie; I'm not saying that is is good but the plumbing and electrical like Jarheads is the norm. I have fix areas of mine, but now that it all works, I'm okay with "the nest" in the basement. It would be nice if it looked good too, but that is just my thoughts

 

[kakampers]

I hate to tell ya'll this, but unless you're prepared to spend 30-40 thousand more than what the Heartland's cost, virtually every brand of trailer out there has somewhat the same "mess" of wiring and plumbing connections. This isn't the norm for Heartland...it's the norm for most of the RV Industry...until you get up into the real high-end units. Then you paying for all the extra time they spend on each individual unit. JMHO

 

[Delaine and Lindy]

Plumbing & PDI's ???

When we had the Landmark (Augusta) we had some water leaks within the first 24 hrs. And of course you have to remove several wood screws, there should be sliding panels??? After removing the screws I was shocked to see the Nest as its being called. And learned that the water connections used P-Nex fitings, I"m sure you have a P-nex tool, I now have one and extra fitings. I had already bought the materials etc to make panels that would slide. Because it wouldn't be long before the wood screws wouldn't hold very much. I had also began to tidy up all those wires and also I think there should be a water manifold in all RV's. As for the PDI, most dealerships we have used didn't do a proper PDI. Out of 6 new 5th wheel we have had to good PDI's done by the dealerships. The 2010 we just pick-up was properly PDIed. On all water sytems they used Air pressure to locate any leaks, after there was no leaks, they then filled up the water system and pressure checked it again. We got to Elkhart on Monday afternoon done the paper work and we were hooked up to a 50 amp site and we did have a problem with the Whirlpool washer that night and had to get it repaired Tuesday morning. We departed Elkhart Tuesday at 11:45 am. And the 5er was Clean. I would suggest that you ask your dealership to pressure check your RV while your are there. There really is no excuse to have a water leak when you pick up a new RV. All these checks are suppose to be done at the factory also. Its really up to the buyer to hold their feet to the fire. The Wow factor is the problem for a buyer, buyers tend to not look behind the panels and in the basement area. We are very pleased with our PDI. The main reason is the PDI was done by the factory and the dealership. GBY....

 

[rick_debbie_gallant]

Nor am I. A quality coach (which the Big Horn is) should present quality even behind the walls. My 2cents is: that it is much easier for the next craftsman doing his or her work to do a good job if the previous craftsman "neatens" his or her work, and so on down the line. Just a thought.

we love our Big Horn 3670RL.

 

[rick_debbie_gallant]

I hate to tell ya'll this, but unless you're prepared to spend 30-40 thousand more than what the Heartland's cost, virtually every brand of trailer out there has somewhat the same "mess" of wiring and plumbing connections. This isn't the norm for Heartland...it's the norm for most of the RV Industry...until you get up into the real high-end units. Then you paying for all the extra time they spend on each individual unit. JMHO[/quote

Huh, 30k to 40k to make sure things are "neat, right and tight"? I just can't wrap my head around your last post. Why is there "always time to do things over (the customer who corrects the builders messes) but never enough time to do it right the first time?!

 

[kakampers]

The difference is 1-2 or 3 units per day, compared to probably 12-14 units per day...you pay the difference!

There is nothing wrong with the way Heartland's or other mid-to-upper level units are put together...they just don't "look" as neat. If you want a company to takes all day to place every wire, every line, every little thing in nice neat rows...you can have it, you're just gonna have to pay big bucks for that. It's VERY time consuming. You don't think the manufacturer can afford to eat that cost..do you?

Me...I'd rather, pay a good price, for a well built unit! If I have to straighten a few things up...so be it! Everything works just as well as the high-priced units. And besides, once we get in there an "straighten things up"...we have a much better idea of how everything works...JMHO!

 

[jmgratz]

Just have to put in my 2 cents worth. Part of the problem could be the transport. I have personally witnessed units coming out the factory door after their final check. You can see water dripping from the sewer pipes and holding tank drains where they have been "water tested". This leads me to believe they are testing the units for leaks. However after the transport company bounces the unit down the road to the selling dealer, the dealer needs to hook everything up and check for leaks and loose connections. Then tighten what needs to be tightened. Me personally, I put the problem right back on the dealer who is more interested in selling the unit than making sure the unit is properly prepared for the walkthrough. The "make-ready" folks are the ones that are really "dropping the ball". TMTCW

 

[Bob&Patty]

Jim, I totaly agree with you. When you buy a new home you do walk through. Every thing is noted and repaired before you move in. Right?? You dont want to know what a nightmare our home was for a year and a 1/2. 1 water leak took out the whole down stairs. This where we live..not go camping in. So unless you have done any work on your new home and been inside any walls or attic. The mess is just as bad in your home as your coach. Believe me. BTW, this home cost 500K....not 50K. Yes I was kinda disappointed at some things. Had the dealer fix some and I fixed some...no big deal. I now know where everything is and how it operates. Just my 5cts (inflation) Bob

 

[Jarhead]

The difference is 1-2 or 3 units per day, compared to probably 12-14 units per day...you pay the difference!

There is nothing wrong with the way Heartland's or other mid-to-upper level units are put together...they just don't "look" as neat. If you want a company to takes all day to place every wire, every line, every little thing in nice neat rows...you can have it, you're just gonna have to pay big bucks for that. It's VERY time consuming. You don't think the manufacturer can afford to eat that cost..do you?

Me...I'd rather, pay a good price, for a well built unit! If I have to straighten a few things up...so be it! Everything works just as well as the high-priced units. And besides, once we get in there an "straighten things up"...we have a much better idea of how everything works...JMHO!

Well, I have to disagree with you kakampers. I paid big bucks for a unit that wasn't constructed according to Heartland "Bighorn" construction book. There is the possibility that it's a Friday afternoon, end of line unit and when Monday morning came around everyone thought the unit had undergone the plumbing test. That being said here's what the book says;
"BIGHORN constructs the plumbing network with top grade materials and methods similar to residential housing. The water lines are capped and tested for leaks using air at 100 P.S.I. for minutes, before final hookup. The system is then hooked up and re-tested again, using water for 15 minutes, assuring the consumer a trouble free plumbing system. The whole system, including water lines, pipes and tanks, are tested several times for defects or leaks. This assures the BIGHORN owner the most trouble free plumbing system available."
Every threaded water connection and drain was loose and leaked in my unit.
What makes it even worse, is the dealer charged me for a PDI that obviously wasn't done.
And talking about the wiring mess, as shown in the picture, here's what that same Heartland "Bighorn" construction book had to say on electrical;

"All BIGHORN electrical wiring is color coded to make service diagnosis easy. The connections and fuses are labeled and interior wiring is loomed for added safety and protection."
Our unit was not loomed. One of the reasons we bought this product was because it appeared that Heartland really did do a great job in building it, at least according to their construction manual and brochures. That may still be the case, only time will tell. We love our new toy, and expect to be able to use it for a long time.
We still have other issues that are under warrenty and we are waiting on our dealer to keep us informed on the repair schedule.​

 

[kakampers]

Well, I have to disagree with you kakampers. I paid big bucks for a unit that wasn't constructed according to Heartland "Bighorn" construction book. There is the possibility that it's a Friday afternoon, end of line unit and when Monday morning came around, and everyone thought the unit had undergone the plumbing test. That being said here's what the book says;
"BIGHORN constructs the plumbing network with top grade materials and methods similar to residential housing. The water lines are capped and tested for leaks using air at 100 P.S.I. for minutes, before final hookup. The system is then hooked up and re-tested again, using water for 15 minutes, assuring the consumer a trouble free plumbing system. The whole system, including water lines, pipes and tanks, are tested several times for defects or leaks. This assures the BIGHORN owner the most trouble free plumbing system available."
Every threaded water connection and drain was loose and leaked in my unit.
What makes it even worse, is the dealer charged me for a PDI that obviously wasn't done.
And talking about the wiring mess, as shown in the picture, here's what that same Heartland "Bighorn" construction book had to say on electrical;

"All BIGHORN electrical wiring is color coded to make service diagnosis easy. The connections and fuses are labeled and interior wiring is loomed for added safety and protection."
Our unit was not loomed. One of the reasons we bought this product was because it appeared that Heartland really did do a great job in building it, at least according to their construction manual and that may still be the case. Time will tell.
We still have other issues that are under warrenty and we are waiting on our dealer to keep us informed on the repair schedule.​

I'm sorry about your problems with the plumbing leaks, however, my comments were referring to the "mess" behind the walls others were talking about. As stated earlier, I think most of the plumbing leaks stem mainly from lack of a good PDI by the dealer. We had two small leaks when we took possess of our unit...both we loose threaded connections...hand tightened and they were fixed.

As for the wire loom, yes they do use it, just not on the end connections that are visible behind the access panel. It is used in the underbelly to prevent chafing of the wiring in areas that cannot be reached easily. It's something you won't usually see unless you remove the underbelly, which we've done, and it is there.

 

[2010augusta]

Just have to put in my 2 cents worth. Part of the problem could be the transport.

I have to agree that transportation is a cause for most of this grief. I pick-up and do a DPI in Elkhart, 10 miles from the factory the day it came off line. It showed no signs of leaks anywhere. But by the time I hauled it back to Colorado and then to Central Texas (the first time we put water in it since PDI) it had been almost 2 months and 2,400 miles, We had a lot of leaks. I re-tightened the fitting and no more leaks. I know with car and trucks, after new parts are installed it is important to re-torque bolt shortly after the first couple uses to make sure everything stays tight, so the same logic should apply to the fittings in the trailers. They had to be re-tightened after all the initial "shake down" to make sure they seat properly. My .02

 

[Delaine and Lindy]

Pressure check .....

I know that our manufactor did PDI everything before it left the factory. I also know when the dealership got the 5th wheel they first use air pressure to check for any leak, I had rather have air leaking out of the water lines than to have water leaking out. Our dealership always changes out the connections for the Washer at the inside connection and the out side connection. According to the Tech thats the only leak they are finding on the 2009/2010 units. As we all know water is the major problem with RV's water will do a lot of damage. As for the wiring nest, I think it could be better. I certainly don't have that issue. I also agree when your building lots of RV vs less RV's per week you should have a better built RV. We had 2 issue's with out last 5th wheel, the night before we picked up the 2010 a bulb burned out and the day we got the 2009 it had a bubble in the lino. I also haven't ever had to pay for a PDI. When you drive on the lot with the new 5th wheel it should have had at the very least 3 PDI's. It took us less than a hour to do our PDI last week. Good Luck to all. GBY.....

 

[kakampers]

Delaine and Lindy wrote..."As for the wiring nest, I think it could be better. I certainly don't have that issue."

This proves my point...DRV builds alot less units per day than Heartland and other manufacturers...and you paid ALOT more for the Mobile Suite! We know, we spec'd one out...just couldn't justify the almost $35,000 extra in cost for "neat" plumbling, wiring, etc.

By the way, you do realize, that the Mobile Suite uses PEX (no such thing as P-NEX) plumbing too?? The only difference, the MS terminates at a manifold system...again, this type of equipment can greatly increase the cost of a unit.

Anybody can have these things...you're gonna have to pay for them though. It's like comparing a Cadillac to a Rolls Royce...

 

[htneighbors]

My Cyclone IS the Rolls Royce!

 

[jmgratz]

I am currently attending a Certified Walk-Through Technician class. That is the way things are moving i.e. having a Certified w/t Tech do the PDI or walk-through. This may help with some of the issues as many dealers have a salesperson or non-qualified person do the PDI. FYI

 

[kakampers]

My Cyclone IS the Rolls Royce!

I know what you mean HT...my Bighorn is a Rolls Royce too...messy wiring and all!!

 

[ChopperBill]

Just wondered if anyone has found any of these corner bend supports in theirs?

My old construction manual show them but the new ones dont. Never found any in mine but I see where they really would clean up a plumbing nest.

 

[Empty Pockets]

yes retired4fun I have seen them I have those in my sob and they really do make a difference. and as i stated before my sob cost 30 thousand less and i havent had all the issues that i see here on the heartland line.do i like heartland yes but its just like the big three auto giants they didnt think they had a QC issue either, and look at them now.

 

[jhead100]

I don't understand how any product gets out of the factory with loose fittings. Our 2009 Landmark had loose fittings and hoses that were not even connected. I make 2 trips to Elkhart to take it to a dealer to get it worked on. It actually filled up my enclosed botton and screwed up the insulation. Heartland has a good marketing dept for sure.

 

[Boca_Shuffles]

yes retired4fun I have seen them I have those in my sob and they really do make a difference. and as i stated before my sob cost 30 thousand less and i havent had all the issues that i see here on the heartland line.do i like heartland yes but its just like the big three auto giants they didnt think they had a QC issue either, and look at them now.

I got a great deal on my fully loaded 2010 Bighorn 3055RL from Gillette's Interstate in Lansing, MI. If your new SOB (it is fairly new isn't it?) cost $30K less, then you need to upgrade from your pop-up trailer or change dealers.