Poor Brakes

[Urban350]

Denise @ Dexter told me they were having the most problems with the earlier right side brakes.

I found a self adjusting cable on the ground in front of my house, so I called Dexter and got approval to tear down the brakes to find the issue. Since I had just done the right rear weeks before, it was suspect as was the right front...which it ended up being.

Luckily I own a drivetrain shop, so I got paid to fix it.... and I know it's done the best it can be with the parts supplied.

All this work and we could have had the 7K brake plates on there to start with......

If I knew this turd was going to last for a while, I'd pop for the hydraulic disk brakes, but I'm not putting another dime into this rig till it proves itself.

I do not understand how they can get away with 6k brakes on a trailer with a GVWR of 1600lbs.

 

[Urban350]

There is nothing you can do to electric brakes to compare to disc brakes. Its one of the best upgrades I have done.

I am not going to spend another dollar on my trailer it has cost me enough, have to agree with another comment on here.

 

[dougw]

Already run 10 gauge back there last year. Separate 10 gauge ground at the axle as well...

It was worth doing, but the braking is still inadequate.

Did the voltage change at the magnets? I'd suspect that 12v has to help more than 9v.

Agreed though, disks just have better gripping power.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Yep, like I said...it was worth doing. You can follow my built here: //heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/26013-Took-delivery-of-our-300C-finally!

 

[Urban350]

Tony (CrazyCooter) did you change the size of the brakes or do you know if it is even possible without changing the axles or going to disc brakes. I just do not have the time for a disc brake conversion but would love to do it.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Tony (CrazyCooter) did you change the size of the brakes or do you know if it is even possible without changing the axles or going to disc brakes. I just do not have the time for a disc brake conversion but would love to do it.

I have not done anything mechanically to the brakes except repair what was defective. Just the 10ga wire pin to axles.

I'm not putting $1600 for disk parts and 1-2 days labor into this thing if it's leaving the fleet! It is getting at least the 7K brake backing plates, I'm just trying to find out who is the responsible party and who is paying...... $480 is warranty labor to swap out, and another $320 for the brakes themselves........Hmmmm...half way to disks

The 7K plates are a bolt on affair.....and they only cost about $10 more than a 6K plate.

 

[CrazyCooter]

Dexter warranty claim is approved, 7K brakes on the way and labor paid for the install.

I'll be gone on a trip next week, so it will be a bit. Let you guys know how it turn out.......

 

[bgassie]

Crazy Cooter your post says labor paid. Is Heartland or Dexter paying and are you doing the work?

 

[CrazyCooter]

After discussion with warranty claims at Heartland, apparently an unknown number of 7K axles have left Dexter with less brake rating than the axle is weight rated for...... Dexter has agreed to pick up the tab on this one. Relieved to know it wasn't intentional to save a few bucks....

I will be doing the repairs at my place as we own a repair shop.

If you suspect you have the same issue, I would suggest contacting Dexter first, as this from what I am told, was mistake on their end. Have your axle sticker numbers ready to speed up the process.

I suspect this will easier and quicker as time goes on now that the issue has been identified.

I'll keep you all posted as to how much better it is.

 

[Urban350]

I want to thank all the people who did the leg work on this issue. Dexter is sending me out all the parts to change my breaks from 6K to 7K.

 

[ChopperBill]

Dont forget to burnish them in after they are installed. They wont work good until you do. At least on my last two trailers.

 

[Urban350]

Got all my parts from Dexter and changed all my brakes, noticable difference. Thanks to Dexter no thanks to Heartland.

 

[BarneyFife]

Interesting thread. So all that mess I was going through last year wasn't just a fluke thing with my trailer. RV Outlet swapped my 6K brakes on my 6K axles with 7K brakes and it has made a noticeable improvement. Dexter of course paid for it all. I second Urban. "Thanks to Dexter no thanks to Heartland."

To this day, I can't understand why they took such a flippant attitude over a safety issue such as my brakes. Can you imagine if someone got killed because a 2 month old camper couldn't be stopped in a reasonable distance and then some hotshot lawyer found out inadequate brakes were installed on so many RVs from that particular manufacturer? That's a nightmare waiting to happen right there.

 

[danemayer]

"Thanks to Dexter no thanks to Heartland."

I've taken the plant tour and if I remember correctly, the axles come from Dexter with complete brake assemblies already installed. Heartland mounts that axle/brake assembly to the frame and puts wheels on. At some point later, Heartland and Dexter figure out some assemblies were put together with the wrong brakes.

So Dexter put the assembly together wrong, and Dexter warrants the assembly, and Dexter responded to your phone call and fixed the problem at their expense.

So why aren't you mad at Dexter for causing you this inconvenience and creating a safety issue? Why are you thanking them and taking a shot at Heartland?

 

[BarneyFife]

Perfect question. But my primary complaint in this whole debacle has been the poor treatment from Heartland. Two months after I buy this camper and the brakes go to virtually nothing. Heartland says,"Its Dexter's axles, its Dexter's problem." They didn't want to help, be a middleman, or anything else. They just wanted me to go away.

I bought a Heartland camper. HEARTLAND should have at least tried to help during the three trips to the dealership to figure out what was wrong. But in a nutshell, they didn't care.

Why do RV manufacturers get a pass on this? You buy a new house and something goes wrong after two months, you call the builder and he takes care of the problem with the sub who did the work. You buy a truck and after two months it has issues. You don't try to find who made that part and then have it fixed. But with my Cyclone, whenever something goes wrong, I have to track down who made the part. Brakes go bad, I have to track down Dexter. Water pump goes bad, I have to track down Shur-Flo. Tire blows up, I have to track down TowMaster. Why does my manufacturer (WHO SELECTS these companies for their campers) get to stay out of it all?

 

[danemayer]

The plan for service in the RV industry (not just Heartland) is that you go to a dealer to get the problems fixed. If the dealer does his job correctly, you don't have to know the details about how warranty is fulfilled or who paid for what. It's when the dealer fails and you have to start making phone calls that you see how "the sausage gets made" and it turns your stomach. The dealer is supposed to be the "prime contractor" and work with all the subs. If they fail, or if you don't want to go to the dealer, you end up taking on their responsibility.

Once you get involved, you might initially feel better if Heartland steps into the gap and starts making phone calls (and they sometimes do). But putting someone in the middle can also increase frustration levels. Instead of 2 parties conversing directly, now you've got 3 parties calling, leaving messages, trying to keep things straight and answer new questions that can best be answered by the party not on the phone.

I've worked on quite a few problems and the only time I found it advantageous for Heartland to be in the middle was one time when I was having trouble with Dometic refusing to vary from their standard policies. Heartland persuaded Dometic to make an exception for me. When I had a problem with my water pump, I had a brief phone call with Shurflo to explain the problem and ask what they thought. They just asked for me to mail in the label from the pump and they sent a new pump. If I had done this at a dealer, it might have been easier, but I would have had to take the trailer to the dealer. If I had asked Heartland to take care of it, it probably would have slowed things down. And worse, going to the dealer or to Heartland might have resulted in me paying to replace the pump which was actually out of warranty.

I guess I'm saying that I don't have a problem with the way warranty is fulfilled. Direct contact with the suppliers is usually easy and usually gets good results.

 

[BarneyFife]

I guess I'm saying that I don't have a problem with the way warranty is fulfilled. Direct contact with the suppliers is usually easy and usually gets good results.

In all honesty, I think that's great how your issues have worked out. But just like the brake issue of this thread, it would have been wonderful if we could have gotten just a little help from Heartland. I can't imagine how a company feels they have no role in a major problem on their product two months after the sale. One call to Heartland from us and one from my dealer only got us referrals back to Dexter. Dealing with Dexter actually resolved the problem but it took six separate trips to our dealership (dropping off and picking up three times, 200 miles each round trip) before the issue was ever resolved. Just as Heartland helped you out with the Dometic issue, they wouldn't have anything to do with us.

I'll say it again. I think I must be in the minority here when it comes to dealing with Heartland customer service. Many many others seem to have had positive experiences. But its been the worst RV experience we've ever had in our 8 years of camping. Just a little help would have gone a long way. But instead, no help has gone a long way. We'll never, ever buy another Heartland product again when this one's gone.

 

[Urban350]

My experience was a little different as when I phoned Heartland, when I could get a hold of someone, and I have never had one voicemail returned, they never told me nothing as to there might be something wrong with the brakes or mention that I should contact Dexter. Instead I had to find out on this forum that there was and is a problem. With my previous trailers their was never this poor communication. I feel that with Heartland it is my trailer and my problem not theirs.

 

[CrazyCooter]

I'm installing my new brakes right now...just waiting for the drums to get done machining and bearings to get cleaned up in the washer. Figured I would post this tech tip while I was waiting.

For those who don't know about the break in/burnishing procedures, have a look at this link http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/issue/article.aspx?contentid=40440 It appears there are a few different variations of this procedure, but mainly that enough friction material gets transferred to the drum/rotor for the new shoes to bite into, but not creating excessive heat while breaking them in.

 

[TeJay]

CrazyCooter,
These discussions concerning burnishing have come up often. That is an excellent link and explanation for the correct procedure. I have never seen it expressed in the 30/30/30 terms. That is an excellent and easy way to remember. One other point. When a new year model comes out in the auto industry the brakes must meet certification guidelines. They are very involved and stringent. According to these guidelines full burnishing is not complete until after about 200 proper stops are made. At that point it has been determined that your brakes are generating the greatest amount of friction and therefore the best braking possible for that situation. The 30/30/30 method assures that the burnish process has been properly started and the customer, under normal driving will eventually complete the process. The most critical factor is to never, never perform a panic stop or hard stop to try and speed up the process.

TeJay