Questions on Possible Purchase of 2012 Landmark

[FLGatorgirl]

Hello Forum Members,

Due to some lifestyle and business changes, we have decided it makes sense for us to sell our class A diesel pusher and purchase a fifth wheel. We are focused on the Landmark and Mobile Suites. It is very possible that we will not be able to stay at our desired price point on a Mobile Suites unless we buy one that is older than what I prefer in terms of dated interiors. We are looking at primarily 2012 Key Largo and San Antonio plans in the Landmark.

We currently own a Monaco coach and are involved in a very active internet owner's group that is a wonderful resource for mods, repairs,etc. It has saved us a small fortune with minor issues that we were able to fix ourselves with forum member's advice. Part of what is drawing me to the Landmark is what I see in your forums as I know what a great resource helpful fellow owners can be. I am also impressed with what I have read so far regarding Heartland's customer service.

A few initial questions, although I am sure more will come up. Is the dual pane window option still a frameless window? All of the coaches we have looked at have frameless windows and the dealer's seem confused as to if they are dual pane or not. I was told today frameless cannot be dual pane. We currently have dual pane (framed) windows on our A and I believe it makes a big difference from our first coach that was not dual pane. If you have the frameless and they are not dual pane, how do you like them in terms of noise and insulation? The dark tint has to help, but on our first coach we never opened the blinds because it was so hot in the summer.

Next question, has anyone triple towed a small trailer or used an Idaho tote or similar behind their coach? Were frame mods needed? Just thinking about our golf cart or potentially a motocross type bike.

We are going to want a generator. Our current diesel gen is much quieter than our first coach which was gas. We will be driving a diesel tow vehicle and also like not worrying about ethanol. Thoughts on diesel vs. gas vs. propane? The generator probably will not get a huge amount of use, but when we need it, we really need it!

Last question for now. We are very hot natured and concerned about the coach being unbearable camping in hot weather as we arrive at a campsite. What should we expect in terms of ambient temps vs. inside temps and how long to cool down? We currently run the generator in travel so the coach is cool when we arrive. Any reason we cannot do that in the fifth wheel?

Thank you and we hope to be joining your ranks soon.

 

[danemayer]

Hi FLGatorgirl,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and hopefully to the family.

While I think dual pane is available in frameless, I'm not 100% sure, so I'll let someone else comment. One complication: I'm not sure when the frameless windows were introduced. It was after our 2011 Landmark was built, so if you're looking at 2012 model year builds, it's possible that dual pane windows might come in both window types.

On triple towing, many states prohibit triple towing or exceeding 65' of combined length. Some people do it anyway and the risk of getting pulled over and having to drop the trailer is probably low. But you should check it out in the states where you plan to tow. On frame mods, Lippert, the frame manufacturer doesn't support any mods. This also might be low risk, especially if you're a 2nd owner.

The on-board Onan generator for Landmark is propane. It's reasonably quiet, even in the bedroom which is adjacent to the genny. There's no provision for a fuel cell on the Landmark to support diesel or gas. The alternative would be something you carry in the tow vehicle, which many people do.

Landmarks changed their air conditioning design beginning on 2012 models if I remember correctly. The "Whisper Quiet" air conditioning has different A/C units that work cooperatively with a ducted system that runs from bedroom to living room. On older models, the bedroom A/C dumps cold air into the bedroom. The new system allows you to run both units to maximum benefit for faster cooling after you set up camp. Then once the temp is comfortable, you adjust the thermostats so most of the cooling comes from the bedroom unit. That lowers the noise level in the living room. At bedtime, you re-adjust the thermostats so the living room unit does most of the work, leaving the bedroom cool and quiet. You can read more about this and get other tips in our owner-written Heating and Cooling Guide.

 

[kakampers]

First, frameless windows can be dual pane...we have them. If you are looking at a 2012 on a lot, they may not be, most dealers don't order them that way. The dark tint helps, but we ordered our 2013 with MCD shades and the solar shade really helps keep it cool inside.

Second, I have seen several people tow behind their Heartland rigs...not sure if they needed beefing up, but I would assume that it would be necessary.

We have never found it to be overly hot when we arrive at our campsite, but we do have dual a/c and the two quickly bring even the hottest temps down quickly.

 

[jmgratz]

We have a 2013 Landmark San Antonio and have framless dual pane windows. Also the air conditioners keep the coach very comfortable. We do have a generator prep but no generator. Since we do not boondock we saw no need for one since we have a portable 7.5 kw one at home. We also looked at the DRV Mobile Suites and they are a great coach too but stayed with Heartland because of the great customer service we have experienced. Good luck in your search.

 

[FLGatorgirl]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Would love to hear from someone if possible who currently has the frameless windows that are not dual pane and how they are working out for you, particularly in very hot or very cold weather. In looking at the window manufacturer's site (Hehr, correct?) it makes it seem like they are somewhat insulated.

Danemyer- Regarding the generator, is the gen prep set up only going to run a propane generator? Is there no room for a fuel cell? Could you use a portable but still hook into the prepped wiring to allow start from inside the coach? We would much prefer an onboard set up. Can anyone comment on propane usage with an LP generator? Thanks for the info on the change in 2012 on the AC, sounds like it is more efficient.

 

[danemayer]

Regarding the generator, is the gen prep set up only going to run a propane generator? Is there no room for a fuel cell? Could you use a portable but still hook into the prepped wiring to allow start from inside the coach? We would much prefer an onboard set up. Can anyone comment on propane usage with an LP generator? Thanks for the info on the change in 2012 on the AC, sounds like it is more efficient.

There have been a couple of owners who looked into diesel as an alternative. I think someone was going to try to put a small fuel cell in the front compartment next to the generator but I don't know if he was successful. I don't recall anyone successfully installing an Onan diesel or gas model in the front compartment of a Landmark.

The Onan spec sheets show that their propane models use about .8 gal/hour at half load. The gasoline model uses .6 gal/hour. Diesel is probably close to the gasoline usage. On the upside, the propane model doesn't suffer from stale fuel and varnishing problems.

The generator prep includes compartment prep and electrical prep and I don't think it's specific to propane. If you wanted to you could wire a receptacle to the transfer switch generator input and connect your outboard generator to that receptacle. But it's probably a lot easier to just plug the trailer cord into the generator, even if you need to buy a suitable extension cord.

 

[kakampers]

Our frameless windows are made by Kinro...

 

[Allen.Hyde]

I have a 2013 Key Largo that has the generator installed in the nose. Camping World added it when I bought it. The generator is a gas generator, and they installed a fuel cell in the compartment next to the generator, where the batteries are. The negative to mine is that they only installed a 6 gallon fuel cell. I would prefer a larger fuel cell for longer running times, but outside of that, we have been very pleased with the set up.


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[danemayer]

The generator is a gas generator, and they installed a fuel cell in the compartment next to the generator, where the batteries are.

Gasoline storage and fill next to electrical components? Sounds a bit dangerous.

 

[Allen.Hyde]

I've had the same thoughts, but that's where it was installed, and now problems the first year of use. Not sure where else a fuel cell could be put on the Landmark. Any suggestions?


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[danemayer]

I've had the same thoughts, but that's where it was installed, and now problems the first year of use. Not sure where else a fuel cell could be put on the Landmark. Any suggestions?

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- Good ventilation away from the electrical components. If I remember correctly, gasoline vapor travels low to the ground.
- Some type of barrier to separate the two areas.
- Extreme care when working on the battery or other electrical components nearby.

 

[jmgratz]

There is a metal wall between the generator compartment and the battery compartment. There are several vent holes in the compartment floors..

 

[guyc66]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Would love to hear from someone if possible who currently has the frameless windows that are not dual pane and how they are working out for you, particularly in very hot or very cold weather. In looking at the window manufacturer's site (Hehr, correct?) it makes it seem like they are somewhat insulated.

Danemyer- Regarding the generator, is the gen prep set up only going to run a propane generator? Is there no room for a fuel cell? Could you use a portable but still hook into the prepped wiring to allow start from inside the coach? We would much prefer an onboard set up. Can anyone comment on propane usage with an LP generator? Thanks for the info on the change in 2012 on the AC, sounds like it is more efficient.

Our 2011 Landmark Grand Canyon has frameless windows that are not dual pane. We full-timed for 2 years in Valdosta, GA where you get to enjoy mid '90s and high humidity every summer (sometimes 100+ F). With two air conditioners it was quite comfortable but they ran nearly non-stop during the day till after sunset to keep it cool inside. I'm sure dual pane windows would have helped, but don't know how much diffence they make. We didn't order our coach (bought off dealer lot) so I'm not sure if I would have opted for the dual panes or not. Now that we are living in Colorado we haven't stayed in our 5er so I can't speak to how well the single pane frameless windows do during extremely cold temps, but I can handle the cold better than the heat so I don't think it would make much difference to me.

 

[toolmaker]

We need to talk. I'm interested in your coach and have a 2011 San Antonio. jon@twojbs.com

 

[doxiecouple]

We ordered a 2013 San Antonio without the double pane windows and opted for the paneless style window. One typically humid and hot Alabama summer behind us, and now in some extremely cold ( a few single digits days/mornings) winter weather. AC handled the heat and humidity just fine and cycled on and off as programmed. To date, very pleased with the performance of windows as far as keeping heat steady. We are convinced we made the right choice by not ordering the double pane windows.

 

[FLGatorgirl]

Doxiecouple,

That is good to hear on the windows as I have a feeling I will be hard pressed to find a used unit that checks every other box and has dual pane windows. What temperature did y'all keep it at during the hot Alabama summer? My husband needs it to be like an icebox. Do you feel like your unit is quiet inside?

Toolmaker,
Sent you an email.

Thanks for all of the responses, this has been very helpful!

 

[wildwolfproducts]

Our 2012 Key Largo has the single pane windows. Only time it had issues cooling down, it was 109 and in the sun. But it got cool but not cold. I keep ours around 68 degrees when its hot. 68 when its cold. And have been in it when the high was 112 and low was 9 degrees. Did well in both, but have to keep the shades closed or heat will come in.
Ours was built in Oct 2011, and does not have the whisperquite air. But I like how it works now and wonder if I would have liked the other one. We have the Generator but thinking it has 4 hours on it. Wish it was not even in the unit. The bunch that put it in the unit. Did not do the job right, and it sets off the allarm in the bedroom if you run it for long. Most times we only use it when on the road and need to use the power for something fast. Will go throught 40 lb propane tank fast and not sure I would want to use it for a weekend.
Will be putting a hitch on the back of ours before spring. As a few trips we make to Ms to fish, we can be 90 ft long. And its 4 hours one way. Not going to turn around to drive 4 hours back to pull the boat down to fish. My wife will tow it back as she will show up a few days after me. Had a Certified welder look at mine and he told me to just pick up the hitch kit and it would work. Frame was heavy enough as it was. Here's a link to the one I will be mounting http://www.etrailer.com/Specialty-Trailer-Hitches/Curt/13703.html and will be around 83 ft with the boat behind me.
Pete