Really Love Our new Landmark San Antonio but Quality Control???

[irishrover13]

We have almost completed our maiden voyage to the lower US from Canada with our new Landmark San Antonio and have, for most part, absolutely enjoyed the living experience. This is our first fifth wheel having traded our motor home for this configuration only last Jun. We have been on the road since last October. However, we have had our share of problems - from a broken/shredded axle, converter fire, window hardware to cabinet doors separating (green wood used in manufacturing). So far all these issues we chalk up to experience. Now we are dealing with an hydraulic leak in one of our leveling jacks. We still like to think positive but these happenings make us think seriously about the quality control process at the manufacturing facility. Certainly a unit of this size, luxury and cost should have excellent quality control inspections throughout the manufacturing processes including supplier quality checks (cabinets). We have spent a lot of time on travel delays, transporting cabinet doors to dealer's location and in repairs (weeks and days). We think a visit to Heartland in Indiana would be valuable, should time permit. There we may find answers to what seems to ail the manufacturing of such fine RVs.
Kudos go out to the designers and engineers for what we see in this San Antonio and hopefully for what isn't readily apparent.
We are hoping that our return trip is uneventful with regards to the RV and look forward to the journey north.

Doug and Jean
2013 Landmark San Antonio
2010 Ram 3500 6.7 Cummins Turbo Dually

 

[jimtoo]

Hi Doug and Jean,

Welcome to the posting side of the Heartland Owners Forum and to the family. I'm sure you have seen we have lots of great people on the forum with lots of information.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems, but looks as though you have been able to get things taken care of.

Enjoy the forum and your Landmark.

Jim M

 

[cookie]

Hello Doug and Jean. Welcome to the forum. As you probably already know this forum is a great place to share information about our rigs.
Out sounds like you are enjoying your new Landmark, for the most part.
Failure of some items is not what we want to experience with our RV's. But it does happen.
You have had some issues that could not be predicted no matter what quality control is in place. Converter failure/fire, Heartland does not know or control what Progressive Dynamics does. For the most part, they provide a good product. No one has a crystal ball to predict what will fail.
What is important is that all of your issues have been taken care of by Heartland.

Peace
Dave

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[jbeletti]

Hi Doug and Jean,

Thank you for sharing your story and thank you for being a Heartland product owner.

So sorry to hear of the trouble you are having. While things will happen, some that have happened to you are not that common to Landmark.

I am curious as to the Axle failure. Can you shed any light on what the cause of the failure?

Also, the Converter fire... What caught on fire and was a cause determined?

Thank you,

Jim

 

[irishrover13]

Hi Jim,
Thank you for your note. Sorry so late in getting back to you.
Yes I really think that what happened to us ref the San Antonio was out of the ordinary - hopefully!!! The axles were new axles from Dexter that had replaced the factory installed axles because of a new electric over hydraulic brake installation at the Dexter factory. The Landmark comes with drum brakes and Heartland wouldn't do the upgrade so had it done by dealer with Dexter. I think the axle shredding was a result of dealer negligence when checking the oil levels in the oil bath of the bearings and doing the brake check before hitting the road. The cause being heat build up on the disc and transferring to the axle pinion. Anyway it has all worked fairly well since November except strangely the same wheel and axle had a hub seal leak and it is in the shop now for a new hub. I am more concerned about the quality control on the cabinets which is remarkably horrible. We have now had to order four new doors for the pantry as those doors are cracking and separating as well. Every door in the unit is made to sub-standard with green wood and poor finishing. Not impressed when one considers the cost of this unit. Still haven't got the rear window replaced as Heartland sent the wrong window this time around. Seems impossible to get a mere rivet for the small window which forms part of the big rear window in the living room. All has to do with the fire exit there. So, must replace entire window for small rivet.

 

[irishrover13]

Hi Dave,
Yes some things are just going to happen as part of ownership of an RV. Had some issues with the Motor Home I had for five years before getting the San Antonio last summer. However, Heartland needs to make note of the quality control issues especially in the cabinetry where we have had to replace all cabinet doors now because of splitting and separating. Hopefully we will have it all completed in the next few weeks. Thanks again for the note.

cheers Doug
Landmark San Antonio

 

[Cyberdave]

It's just a shame that Heartland doesn't realize what a terrific selling point a dedicated QA team would be. How much more incentive would it give a prospective Landmark owner when they see a letter glued inside a door with all three inspectors actual signatures not a copy but real on each one. For example "I inspected and tested the complete electrical system including the AC / DC and battery. I am responsible for ensuring the Landmark you have purchased is built to Heartlands high standards"

If I were to see a letter like this prominently displayed and actually signed and dated by inspectors responsible for all water systems, electrical systems and fit and finish. Wouldn't that be an additional enticement?

 

[Rottiesmom]

I agreed a good QA team will put heartland way on top of the rv community (not that they aren't one of the top). We had a 2012 3185 Bighorn and on our first trip out with it our cabinets had split. We were quite upset since our SOB we had for 6 years we never had any issues with it and it was never back to the dealership until it was hit by lighting. We recently purchased a 2013 Landmark Key Largo and absolutely love it. However, when we first looked at it and decided to purchase it we notice that one of the slides was way out of alignment, the cabinets were not evenly stained, hinge doors on the cabinets outside were not secure when locking, bedroom and bathroom doors are not closing and latching and several other issues. The sales person at the dealership prior to us seeing the unit stated that our unit had gone through a QA inspection so we thought the PDI would go without anymore issues but we did find more items that would need to be repaired or taken care of. I feel especailly for the money you spend on these models there should be more time taken by the factory to do a complete inspection prior to rolling out the door. I know that time is money for business but it certainly would cut down on the number of complaints people would have if it was taken care of before releasing their unit from the factory. I love my key largo now that we have addressed the issues but I would be willing to wait longer for my unit knowing when I receive it I'm not going to have to bring it back to the dealership especially since our dealership is over 3 1/2 hours from where we keep our camper.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Dave your point is well taken...except for one thing. HL does not make the cabinets, refrigerators, stoves, sinks, faucets, frames. brakes, tires, furniture, carpet, slides, roof material, front and rear landing gear, windows, A/C and heater units, etc...etc..etc...in fact they dont even make the baggage doors or locks. HL buys things from outside vendors and installs them in the fiberglass box they (HL) builds. So i guess they need to sign off on the walls, floor, wiring, and plumbing. So how would the person that installs the cabinets know if the doors are going to fail or what they are made of?? That sounds like that should fall under the cabinet makers warranty.

 

[JohnDar]

Granted, Heartland does not manufacture the appliances and other components, but they install them in an expensive trailer with their name plastered on it. The auto companies do the same, but when a component goes bad, it's not up to the owner to chase down the vendor. Us, as individual owners have little clout to get the vendors to act. Heartland, as the buyer of many parts, does. Do they have a warranty claims group that tracks problems so they can tell (statistically or severity) when an item needs to be corrected, or a vendor needs to be taken out to the wood shed?

 

[Eddhuy]

I think a lot of this should be placed on the dealers shoulders as well. If they notice something, if the even look, do they fix it or ignore it. We are getting a new Gateway from La Mesa RV in Davis, CA. The PDI is this coming Thursday, tomorrow. They called us yesterday and told us they found some wood that needed to be replaced. The wood was on order and we could pick it up after it comes in or bring it back. We opted to bring it back. They also stated that they could find no other problems at this time and that everything else checked out OK. This is a total different experience from Camping World where you had to find the problem and then they may or may not fix. When they did fix it it was good work though. We'll see how the PDI goes tomorrow, I think and hope it will be good, I have printed out the check list and am ready.

 

[klindgren]

I think a lot of this should be placed on the dealers shoulders as well. If they notice something, if the even look, do they fix it or ignore it. We are getting a new Gateway from La Mesa RV in Davis, CA. The PDI is this coming Thursday, tomorrow. They called us yesterday and told us they found some wood that needed to be replaced. The wood was on order and we could pick it up after it comes in or bring it back. We opted to bring it back. They also stated that they could find no other problems at this time and that everything else checked out OK. This is a total different experience from Camping World where you had to find the problem and then they may or may not fix. When they did fix it it was good work though. We'll see how the PDI goes tomorrow, I think and hope it will be good, I have printed out the check list and am ready.

Well said. I can't even begin to tell you the difference from my PDI when I purchased my 2010 Pinehurst from RV Solutions and my "orientation" when I purchased this 2014 San Antonio from Camping World. My PDI took as long as I needed to understand and follow-up with questions I had after I left the lot. My "orientation" was scheduled for 1 hour and I felt rushed. I found out there were several questions that I didn't even know enough to ask at the time of the "orientation" and I have no one to ask once I left the lot. I left Camping World feeling "now we've sold you this rig, don't bother us."

I have to admit a lot of that feeling comes from a whole series of problems just getting the trailer to the dealership that left me in a "foul" mood right from the beginning, but even with my negative attitude, I don't think Camping World did enough to make sure I had a "as pleasurable experience as possible" with the purchase of my rig.

 

[Eddhuy]

Granted, Heartland does not manufacture the appliances and other components, but they install them in an expensive trailer with their name plastered on it. The auto companies do the same, but when a component goes bad, it's not up to the owner to chase down the vendor. Us, as individual owners have little clout to get the vendors to act. Heartland, as the buyer of many parts, does. Do they have a warranty claims group that tracks problems so they can tell (statistically or severity) when an item needs to be corrected, or a vendor needs to be taken out to the wood shed?

I wonder how many manufacturers of cabinets there are that can provide the needed quantity of cabinets at a reasonable cost? When it comes to appliances there does not seem to be that many choices and I am certain that weight must play a roll in what is used. I am really not sure but I do wonder how many choices they really have and still be able to provide the product at the cost and quantity they currently do.

 

[Bob&Patty]

John, you are absolutly correct. But to bad mouth HL everytime a outside vendors product fails is just not right. To me rather that rant at HL, just a plesant call to them and I bet HL will help all they can to get the problem solved.

 

[Cyberdave]

Dave your point is well taken...except for one thing. HL does not make the cabinets, refrigerators, stoves, sinks, faucets, frames. brakes, tires, furniture, carpet, slides, roof material, front and rear landing gear, windows, A/C and heater units, etc...etc..etc...in fact they dont even make the baggage doors or locks. HL buys things from outside vendors and installs them in the fiberglass box they (HL) builds. So i guess they need to sign off on the walls, floor, wiring, and plumbing. So how would the person that installs the cabinets know if the doors are going to fail or what they are made of?? That sounds like that should fall under the cabinet makers warranty.

Bob,

Look at it from another perspective. My Dodge has a very large number of outside vendor parts also. Electronics, harnesses, hoses, engine, rear end, etc, etc, etc

Using your logic, why would Dodge be responsible for a defective shock or a bad radio or a vibrating drive shaft?

Unless things are very, very different than other factories we toured, the cabinets are either made in house or under contract to Heartland making HL the default manufacturer. Other items such as appliances, AC and heaters are off the shelf items and warrantied by the manufacturer and like my Dodge, the manufacturers warranty should cover it if the HL warranty is in effect.

Further, using your logic, if a radio in your new vehicle is bad who is responsible?

No one is assaulting HL, there is always room for improvement and having a good QA program like Northwoods would make an excellent selling point.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Dave, your are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, the car companies have "sub contractors" build parts for them. The difference is they build the parts to their specs and most of the time they own the sub contractors. Just like Delco was owned by GM at one time. HL buys things that are not made by them and not built to HL specs. They just buy them and make places to install them. Now how much influence they (HL) have when there is a problem....who knows. This no difference than you buying a new fridge for your home. If it fails...who do you call?? The home builder? Yes, if you have an issue with a new coach. Then the 1st place to call is your dealer. Then if they are no help, then the people that made the product. If that does not work.....then call HL. In my book, there is a chain of events that should happen with any consumer product. But to just have a fit and fall in it is just not right. Let me ask you this again. How would a person installing cabinets or any other outside vendors products know if they are good or bad would fail in 3-4 weeks or maybe longer. Just ask Ford about the GY tires that failed and hurt people....whos fault was that?? You have your thoughts and I have mine. But working in the automobile industry for 47 years...I know how this works.

 

[danemayer]

I suspect if you had a problem on your Ford truck and called Ford HQ about getting it fixed, they would nicely tell you to go to a dealer. And if you explained that it was inconvenient to do so, they would probably tell you again to go to a dealer. Telling them that you want it work differently probably will not change their answer.

Heartland's intent is the same. If something goes wrong, you're supposed to take the trailer to a dealer to get it fixed. The dealer is supposed to shield you from the details of how the warranty is fulfilled. You don't need to know that the dealer went to Dometic to get parts for the refrigerator, or to Dexter to replace faulty brakes.

The problem starts when we call Heartland Customer Service instead of going to the dealer. We put ourselves in the middle of the warranty fulfillment process and start finding out the details of how it works. It's like going to the hot dog factory and finding out how hot dogs are made. Suddenly we don't find them as tasty as they used to be.

So in my view of the world, if you want to put yourself in the middle, that's ok, but you should accept what comes with that decision.

 

[Cyberdave]

Dave, your are comparing apples to oranges. Yes, the car companies have "sub contractors" build parts for them. The difference is they build the parts to their specs and most of the time they own the sub contractors. Just like Delco was owned by GM at one time. HL buys things that are not made by them and not built to HL specs. They just buy them and make places to install them. Now how much influence they (HL) have when there is a problem....who knows. This no difference than you buying a new fridge for your home. If it fails...who do you call?? The home builder? Yes, if you have an issue with a new coach. Then the 1st place to call is your dealer. Then if they are no help, then the people that made the product. If that does not work.....then call HL. In my book, there is a chain of events that should happen with any consumer product. But to just have a fit and fall in it is just not right. Let me ask you this again. How would a person installing cabinets or any other outside vendors products know if they are good or bad would fail in 3-4 weeks or maybe longer. Just ask Ford about the GY tires that failed and hurt people....whos fault was that?? You have your thoughts and I have mine. But working in the automobile industry for 47 years...I know how this works.

Where did I say anything even close to calling HL direct for warranty issues??? I am speaking of quality and the manufacturers responsibilities. Please don't assume I am insulting HL at all. If you were to read my posts, you would find that I am comparing apples to apples in regard to what I said. Let me restate it more clearly. If you buy a new truck and the radio goes bad, you go to the dealer to get it fixed and it is shipped from the manufacturer not Jim Bobs used radios. If HL builds a unit and the AC goes out, the dealer contacts HL for the claim and whether it ships from HL or Dometic, does it really matter? It boils down to responsibility doesn't it?

What is the point in how long you worked in the auto industry? Should I list my experiences?

My point is and still remains that HL has an opportunity to create a marketing coup.

Have you read a single post where I have said HL sucks or CS is bad or I hate my rig?

 

[tmcran]

Some folks seem very defensive about any comment that they may think is negative toward HL products. I'm just not a brand loyal person. However, my feeling is if a product has a name on it then that name gets the good and bad that goes with it. I have had brands that I will never own again because of various reasons. I can't think of one case where I would not buy a product due to the components in the product.

 

[Geaux_Tigers]

. ...... We'll see how the PDI goes tomorrow, I think and hope it will be good, I have printed out the check list and am ready.

I have my walk through tomorrow also on my BC 3691. What checklist?!?