Really Love Our new Landmark San Antonio but Quality Control???

[Eddhuy]

Select forums and then search on "pdi checklist". You should see an entry titled pdi and there will be the attachment that I am using.

 

[SilverRhino]

We love our 2010 BC and have been very pleased with the fit and finish of installed parts. Last week we stopped at two different RV lots and looked at new Landmarks and Big Horns and the workmanship of installation of moldings, fixtures and appliances in those units was at best very poor. There was a definite difference in the quality of workmanship between our coach and the new ones. I would not have left the lot with anyone of them.

We where very surprised and disapointed in what we saw.

 

[kakampers]

That is odd....the great fit and finish in our 2013 Landmark was the first thing that caught our attention. Much better than our 2008 Bigborn.

 

[SilverRhino]

I'm glad that yours was good.......Just saying that what we saw was not even close to r BC and not what we expected to see.......Nothing odd just an unbiased observation.

 

[Theresau]

We just did a tour of the plant that builds the BC, BH and Landmark. Our observation (and we were told such by the guide) was that they did QC along the way and again at the conclusion. They mark areas that need attention with red tape when found - it depends on priority when it would be corrected while going down the line. We observed electric items being turned on when installed (such as the TV), etc.

A real interesting note was that the tanks are filled with water at the start of the line and kept full to be sure no leaks occur during remaining production - no water is expected to drip while the unit is being developed and moved. Right before it is weighed, the tanks are dumped.

Each unit is treated as a project. They keep a paper file attached throughout the production process. This includes the confirmation with decor and options, etc. As these are completed, they are initialed and other details are noted in the file (such as the furnace size).

Theresa

 

[John T Bettencourt]

I just want to say,I am with Cyberdave 100%

 

[JohnDar]

John, you are absolutly correct. But to bad mouth HL everytime a outside vendors product fails is just not right. To me rather that rant at HL, just a plesant call to them and I bet HL will help all they can to get the problem solved.

Bob, I don't think I bad-mouthed HL. But there does appear to be steps they could take to improve their customer relations. Let's just use the cabinet doors as an example. If Heartland is tracking customer complaints, or warranty claims, do they have a point which compels them to do a QC inspection of their supplier(s)? Or maybe look for new suppliers?

On a personal note, we've been very happy with our 2009 BH3670.

 

[Bob&Patty]

John, correction, it was not you that I was refering to. Its the others that bad mouth HL, never take deep breath, step back, calmly deal with what happens. I bet you you money, marbles, or chalk that everyone has bought a new house and has had issues with it and a older home can be even worse. I know we did. When we had two big issues with the down stairs flooding within 2 days of moving in, I was madder than %&*# at the plumber....not the home builder. I have approched all the issues with the Horn that way. I look at what failed and said to myself...WHO built this part that failed. Was it HL or the aftermarket supplier. I think this dicussion is over....I have my ways of dealing with things and some dont agree.....so be it. I have been in the service industry tooooooo long to deal with it any other way. My moto is "life is not fair...so deal with it". Again, John it was not you.

 

[Theresau]

We could be really wrong here but our impression when purchasing a 2014 and having owned/ordered a 2010 is that Heartland does appear to address issues with vendors - some examples are that they no longer use the Half-time microwave, they no longer have the aluminum baggage doors (we really liked those but there had been a great deal of warranty issues) and our dealer indicated that HL may be phasing out the air bed.

And I truly believe that HL listens - note all the models now that have the side aisle larger showers, the bedroom 2nd ac is now ducted, the bedroom closet is very organized - even has drawers and a room for a safe, the BH has outside speakers and radio, there are many paint options, mattress is a pillow top (2010 mattress was pretty horrid...), they are using LED interior lights, BC even has LED lights built into the awning - these are many of the reasons why we purchased a new unit.

Bob, I don't think I bad-mouthed HL. But there does appear to be steps they could take to improve their customer relations. Let's just use the cabinet doors as an example. If Heartland is tracking customer complaints, or warranty claims, do they have a point which compels them to do a QC inspection of their supplier(s)? Or maybe look for new suppliers?

On a personal note, we've been very happy with our 2009 BH3670.

 

[JohnDar]

We could be really wrong here but our impression when purchasing a 2014 and having owned/ordered a 2010 is that Heartland does appear to address issues with vendors - some examples are that they no longer use the Half-time microwave, they no longer have the aluminum baggage doors (we really liked those but there had been a great deal of warranty issues) and our dealer indicated that HL may be phasing out the air bed.

And I truly believe that HL listens - note all the models now that have the side aisle larger showers, the bedroom 2nd ac is now ducted, the bedroom closet is very organized - even has drawers and a room for a safe, the BH has outside speakers and radio, there are many paint options, mattress is a pillow top (2010 mattress was pretty horrid...), they are using LED interior lights, BC even has LED lights built into the awning - these are many of the reasons why we purchased a new unit.

You're probably not wrong, they do appear to address some owner desires regarding options. But I still wonder how they handle things like component failures, such as the cabinet doors or delaminating slide floors. A properly constructed raised panel door should not fall apart, regardless of which state you live in. So I stick to my question of does HL have a QA/QC team or department that investigates these types of things when they occur in the field. It's not the same as doing a QA at the end of the production line.

The analogy I have is from working for a major luxury car company, back in the day. There was a Reliability Dept. that tracked warranty and customer complaints. Based on whatever statistical algorithm they used, a level or severity of complaint triggered an investigation. The Engineering lab I was a part of assisted them. When appropriate, we worked to find root cause and correct a vendor's process. Also, when appropriate, a vendor lost their contract. We also dealt with in-plant problems, as well. And yes, I know the business model for the RV industry is nothing like the automotive industry.

As a side note, there should be no offense taken in any of this. None is intended.

In regards to new home buyers (OK, ours was built new in 1994), if I could find some of the sub-contractors, I'd be arrested.

 

[TravelTiger]

Yes, they listen, Coley Brady said it himself.

What I think folks are upset about is the expectation that they will have a "problem free" unit. I doubt there is such an animal. Just for grins, go visit a SOB forum. You'll hear some of the same issues with the products installed in their trailers, and sometimes much worse!

It would be great if Heartland could spend 4-6 hours doing a walkthrough of every unit before it was delivered to a dealer. Would it set them apart? Absolutely, but at what cost? Staging, staffing, and consequences of problems found would be profound. It would require quite a paradigm shift.

Erika

 

[Bob&Patty]

John, I know exactly what you are talking about. For at least 40 years I dealt with GM high end cars. It was nothing unusual to call in a factory rep if a new year model was having a continuing problem with a component, water leak, fit and finish. They always listened and the problem would be corrected at the plant. GM would send a factory bulletin to all dealers on how to address the problem until it could be addressed in the plant. As you stated, automobiles are not RV's. But I do believe that HL listens and tries to correct things if they can. I had a thought last evening (dont get those very often). Does anyone think that HL would put a faulty fridge or any other sub assembly in coaches they build knowing they are faulty?? HL relies on the the sub contractors to provide a quality product and I'm sure all the other coach builders do also. All I am trying to say, put the blame on the people that built the component....if it is HL, then so be it.

 

[donr827]

Well said Bob.
Don

 

[JohnDar]

We are in agreement on this, Bob. My stance remains that when these things occur, HL should be rubbing the vendor's nose in it. Perhaps they do, out of sight behind closed doors. I'd like to think so because I like being a proud owner of one of their products. Doesn't mean I won't ding them occasionally, though.

 

[Cyberdave]

It's interesting that you think pointing out QA issues is "bashing" HL. Now, I don't know about you but when I paid the big bucks for an upscale, luxury full timers unit, I expect quality not multiple QA issues. You point at the "vendors" being at fault and I shouldn't call out HL for problems with appliances, HVAC, etc, I totally agree, so let's call out the manufacturers that have given me problems........ oops, none, not a single issue with any installed appliances, lighting, or even the ceiling fan.

Every problem we've had has been QA related, ALL of them, end of story.

From someone stomping on the AC covers, to the loose connections (all plumbing and hose joints and the faucet) in the island, to the doors not latching, the hinges being loose, improperly installed emergency exit window and now add an incorrectly hung entry door.

Everyone of these are QA issues and none were caused by anything built by an outside vendor. Someone posted that "HL buys things from outside vendors and installs them in the fiberglass box they (HL) builds." Sorry to disappoint you but HL does not install everything into a "fiberglass box" as you say.

Like other Landmark owners have stated, we expect a higher standard because we pay a **** of a lot more for it.

Some, want to speak as though we are newbies, first rig, expected too much, etc... Wrong on all accounts, third rig, been RV'ing for ten years now. We never expected perfection, but when someone stomps on both AC covers, cracking them and someone doesn't tighten a single fitting under the island and someone doesn't bother to line up the rear emergency window, you would be a bit skeptical would you not?

 

[jnbhobe]

The Landmark, Bighorn, and Big Country all come down the same assembly line, Built by the same people so I would think that QC is the same on all three.

 

[Cyberdave]

Yes, they listen, Coley Brady said it himself.

What I think folks are upset about is the expectation that they will have a "problem free" unit. I doubt there is such an animal. Just for grins, go visit a SOB forum. You'll hear some of the same issues with the products installed in their trailers, and sometimes much worse!

It would be great if Heartland could spend 4-6 hours doing a walkthrough of every unit before it was delivered to a dealer. Would it set them apart? Absolutely, but at what cost? Staging, staffing, and consequences of problems found would be profound. It would require quite a paradigm shift.

Erika

How much does it cost to pay dealers for warranty repairs that could have been caught prior to shipping?

 

[FloridaRVers]

I too have quality control issues with my 2013 Bighorn 3185. It seems like after every trip we take it has to go back in for warranty work, Cabinets doors coming apart, hinges coming off or breaking. Molding coming off . Two new water pumps and a new converter. Now a water leak that no one can find. I can stay 2 weeks at a campground and not see a sign of water leaking but once I get underway and make my first turn the water gushes out of underbelly in the area of the axle or steps. I usually can see it in the rear view mirror. The stain that they used on my cabnets doors is coming off and bare wood is showing. Hopelly all this will be fixed before my warranty expires. Wayne Vann

 

[Westwind]

We have just finished spending the 2nd 3 month snowbird season in our 2012 Bighorn 3070RL, it was a good 3 months, the only cabinet door that I hadn't glued the plastic hinge plug into let go but that is minor. Last year we had molding buckle, hot water heater thermostat fail, and the Kitchen slide not open (Bolt fell off hydraulic in underbelly) and caulking issues and the kitchen sink that is dropping away from the counter so we have a large 1/8 inch gap.
I expected things so we just dealt with them. One thing that impressed me with our Bighorn was the cabinets and wood panels on the sides etc., what has proven to be a disappointment is the finish which is coming off the cabinets, especially drawers we handle with damp hands while cooking or in the bathroom. I have 27 year old cabinets in our house that the finish is holding up better then the Big Horn. I will have to redo the finish on the cabinet doors and that's disappointing.
Do we love our Bighorn? Yes we do. Would I buy another, yes I would. But I would recommend that Heartland address the cabinet finish.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Westwind, hopefully HL is getting on the cabinet manufacturer about this. It seems to be an on going thing with the finish coming off and doors falling off.