Temp in the teens overnight, kitchen hw froze

[jbeletti]

LK,

My guess is that you actually froze and broke the water solenoid. I did this when I forgot to winterize the ice maker season one.

On mine, the solenoid is wrapped with foil tape and under the tape was an insulated heat wire. That heat wire continued up the back of the refer with the ice maker water line. There was no heat wire on the line from the T-tap to the input of the solenoid.

This is how mine was, yours may be different. The part ws fairly inexpensive. I think I ordered it from Dometic's service department. Easy to install too.

By the way, the solenoid runs on 110 VAC and the heat wire runs on 12 VDC. Of no particular value perhaps - just things I have learned. There are also some glass type DC fuses in black fuse holders in the back of the refer. One is for the heat wire, another for the fans.

Here's a link to a thread with the Dometic winterization steps for the ice maker.

Here's a link to a thread with pictures of the solenoid and steps on how to replace it if needed.

Jim

 

[linuxkidd]

Morning Jim,
When I saw the ice, that was the first thing I checked. I'd seen another post you made about the solenoid so that was fresh on my mind. The strange thing is... I can't actually pin point exactly what has ruptured. The solenoid seems fine.. All the visible parts of the water line seem ok.. But there's water coming from somewhere. Oh well. When it warms up, I'll dive into that one a bit more. It's isolated for now, so I'm not terribly worried about it.

But, 4 degrees outside with a wind chill of -8, and there's one place water is NOT flowing.. That'd be the kitchen. I guess I will have to add some heat wrap to my LPD's as well. I must say though.. The bubble wrap did quite well down to say the low 20's.

One other note: I've got a heater in the basement behind the wall ( in with the furnace / water heater, etc.. ) and that didn't help either. On my unit, the T's for the LPD's are right at the skin of the belly, so nothing up top is gonna help much it seems.

LK

**Edit: After reading the winterization instructions for the icemaker system.. It seems I have more work to do. It's supposed to be up to 39 degrees F tomorrow, so I think that's when I'll strike. Somehow I don't think the 25 degree high today is gonna help.

 

[jbeletti]

LK,

What you are going through now is a pain in the butt for you but it's great info for others. You're sort of a cold chamber in the lab for others.

What it you put that wrap around insulation on all the piping you could reach? Ideally in the summer with the underbelly off. I wonder if that on it's own would be enough to guard against freezing? If not, the maybe heat taping the lines that are lowest in the underbelly or locating them higher in the underbelly.

Just sort of talking out loud here and being glad I am not in your shoes. Hopefully you won't have to live in the trailer next winter.

Going out to start my truck. Hasn't been started in weeks. Need to use it today to help someone move (brrr). Found the block heater plug and have it plugged in. Hope I have enough juice in the starting batts.

Jim

 

[aquiring signal]

Hot water flowing, cold is still frozen

17 degrees this morning with a wind chill of around 4. It looks like the 3' heated cable I added just inside the belly (to the pipes leading to the low point drains) keeps the kitchen hot water flowing.

But I still have no cold water running in the kitchen. Everywhere else in the coach the water works fine. My guess is somewhere along the cold water line run it rests against the metal frame. This may be a bigger project than I am willing to take on myself. I just don't want to get in over my head or spend too many hours and not have success. I might have to make an appointment with the local Heartland dealer and have them do it.

Once we get above freezing and the kitchen cold water is flowing again I guess I'll find out if anything leaks. If no water is coming from the bottom of the coach, then I guess all is well. If it is, I can trickle the cold on nights the temps are forecast to be below freezing. I know the overflow risks of doing this, but I plan to be careful.

 

[sjrellis]

Kitchen cold water did not want to run yesterday morning. It finally started running and dh dripped it into the morning and then bought a 3' heat tape yesterday. He is going to put it on today. We let it drip overnight again last night and all is good. It was -10 here last night. We have NO complaints about trying to stay warm. All we are using is the propane and one space heater in the living room. Hopefully, this is the end of "hard" winter in Wisconsin. We'll be going to Illinois in about 6 weeks. Ain't it warmer in IL? It is SOUTH!

 

[aquiring signal]

running water!

Temperature finally went above freezing and eureka! We have water again!! Overnight lows for the next week are forecast to be below freezing so we may trickle the kitchen cold water as a precaution. The winter camping experiment continues!

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

Kitchen cold water did not want to run yesterday morning. It finally started running and dh dripped it into the morning and then bought a 3' heat tape yesterday. He is going to put it on today. We let it drip overnight again last night and all is good. It was -10 here last night. We have NO complaints about trying to stay warm. All we are using is the propane and one space heater in the living room. Hopefully, this is the end of "hard" winter in Wisconsin. We'll be going to Illinois in about 6 weeks. Ain't it warmer in IL? It is SOUTH!

Sandra, It's good to hear you'll be in a bit warmer climate in a few weeks. I was hoping we would have a chance to meet your other half when we returned to Wisconsin. Maybe some other time. Stay warm and have safe travels.

 

[Rickhansen]

Another 3670 freeze problem

As another new owner of an '09 3670 I've been reading your sagas with anticipation. I have been worried about this because I've noticed that the water from the sink is "refreshingly" cold. Certainly indicates a lack of insulation. Here in NC the overnight low was 18 degrees and the cold water line to my sink was frozen.

I probably helped to aggravate my own problem by using a programmable night setback thermostat and by relying heavily on electric space heaters and the fireplace to curb the Bighorns' voracious appetite for propane. Electric is un-metered included in our monthly site fees.

I turned the thermostat up, opened the undersink cupboard doors, and slowly ran the hot water intermittently. After about an hour I got a few drips followed by a trickle, followed by normal flow. I've found no apparent signs of leaks, this time.

Since I've not ventured into the "belly of the beast" but once, and only briefly, can anyone give me an idea of the path of the kitchen sink water lines? I am guessing that they run straight back to the sink somewhere toward the off-door-side of the main heat duct. I've heard of the suspicion that they run via the low point drains, but have a hard time buying that without seeing it.

My previous RV had all the water lines run above the floor in heated spaces, but the island kitchen and kitchen slide makes that impossible in the 3670. I know from full-timing for two years in the old Prowler, that as long as I had heat my water lines were protected.

My wife and I are full-time, so I know this will require some field investigation, re-engineering, and re-work. Luckily, spring is coming soon and the freezing threat should subside and I attack this in the shade of the beast.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[aquiring signal]

3670 plumbing schematic

Rick,
I have pdf files of the plumbing schematics. They don't show exact routing, but may help you. Reply to the email I sent you & I'll send them to you.
Jon

 

[sidney dreyfus]

acquiring signal,
We had the same problem this weekend. We were in the pennsyvania Pocono's and the temperature went down to zero. I decided not to take a chance so I winterized the camper Saturday afternoon. It cleared up after adding antifreeze to the system.

 

[aquiring signal]

acquiring signal,
We had the same problem this weekend. We were in the pennsyvania Pocono's and the temperature went down to zero. I decided not to take a chance so I winterized the camper Saturday afternoon. It cleared up after adding antifreeze to the system.

Thanks for your input. We're using our Bighorn this winter so antifreeze and winterizing is not an option for us.

 

[linuxkidd]

aquiring signal: I think that pipe diagram would be great to have. Could you post it as an attachment to the forum? (Or is it not a publicly postable file?)

Thanks,
LK

 

[jpmorgan37]

That would be a great idea to post it and it is perfectly acceptable.

John

Forum Moderator

 

[aquiring signal]

aquiring signal: I think that pipe diagram would be great to have. Could you post it as an attachment to the forum? (Or is it not a publicly postable file?)

Thanks,
LK

I've never attached something to a post. Let's see if this works....

 

[sjrellis]

Could ya'll sticky that?

 

[Rickhansen]

Thoughts

Thanks for the schematics. Understanding that these are diagrammatic and not to scale, the problem I see in accessing the kitchen faucet water lines is that they route directly over the freshwater tank. Can anyone confirm that?

I'm also thinking that keeping the fresh water tank full might offer some freeze protection. It won't provide any real insulation value, but the thermal mass may get it through the overnight lows.

I know our tank was pretty much empty (<20%) the other night. The forecast is for another very cold night Thursday (1/24), so I plan to fill 'er up before then - can't hurt.

 

[aquiring signal]

Thanks for the schematics. Understanding that these are diagrammatic and not to scale, the problem I see in accessing the kitchen faucet water lines is that they route directly over the freshwater tank. Can anyone confirm that?

I'm also thinking that keeping the fresh water tank full might offer some freeze protection. It won't provide any real insulation value, but the thermal mass may get it through the overnight lows.

I know our tank was pretty much empty (<20%) the other night. The forecast is for another very cold night Thursday (1/24), so I plan to fill 'er up before then - can't hurt.

These schematics do not show actual routing, so I don't think you can be sure the lines go over the tanks. (unless you are concluding that they must if the tanks are the full width of the trialer) I am pretty sure the line routing varries from trailer to trailer. But these schematics may be useful in trouble shooting. For example if something is frozen, and you know where you do have water flow and where you don't, you may be able to narrow down the problem line.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Split Tank

Rickhansen, Im not sure if filling up the tank is a good idea. If the tank froze it could split the tank. Just my 2 cts worth. Bob

 

[jpmorgan37]

Rickhansen;

Just a little information for you and how I do it in below freezing weather. We use heaters to supplement the heat as well as having heat pumps. When the temperature drops down in the lower twenties, I do keep the furnace on so that it is pumping heat into the underbelly. So far, I have had no freeze up problems doing it this way and I use a minimal amout of propane. The furnace might run two or three times during the night but it seems to be enough to keep the lines from freezing in the underbelly. I've thought about closing off the valves to my gray water tanks and keeping warm (shower and dish washing) water in them, but I've never done it. Just some of my thoughts.

John

 

[sjrellis]

"Sandra, It's good to hear you'll be in a bit warmer climate in a few weeks. I was hoping we would have a chance to meet your other half when we returned to Wisconsin. Maybe some other time. Stay warm and have safe travels."

Ray, In this line of work, who knows. We could still be here. Nothing is ever definite! I'll let you know. When are ya'll headed back up this way? Don't get in a hurry...tomorrow night the wind chill is expected to be -35!!