Temp in the teens overnight, kitchen hw froze

[linuxkidd]

Ya.. my T connectors were inside the foam, but not covered by it..

Jim: Definitely gonna look into some heat wrap solutions. Anyone have suggestions on short run, cost effective heat solutions? Also, check out my weather site: http://weather.linuxkidd.com .. I use weather.com data but Add Free and IMO, in a better format.

There's a LONG todo list for Sunday... believe me! Including washing / polishing the Charger.. Right now it looks like a giant salt lick.

LK

 

[aquiring signal]

Success! It's still 14 degrees outside but the hot water in the kitchen is running again.

The second 15 minutes of hair dryer on the drain lines did the trick we think. The only other thing we changed was cover a few heat vents in hopes that more heat might be forced into the basement. Either way, it's fixed (for now) and we will be looking for a long term solution to insulating and/or heating the drain lines. If anyone comes up with a good way to do this, please post a description and pictures if possible.

Thanks again to all, and especially to linuxkidd!

 

[jpmorgan37]

linuxkidd;

I got my heat tape at Home Depot. Ace hardware also carries them. They both had them in different lengths. On my water hose, I ran it straight and used wire ties then covered it with foam water pipe insulation. Other stuff, I used bubble wrap over the heat tape. So far, no freeze ups.

John

 

[linuxkidd]

Congrats aquiring signal... I'll definitely keep everyone posted on what I do..

jpm: I looked at a few heat tape products at Lowes the other day.. Just seems like they are all too long for what I need. Great tip with the bubble wrap... I'm guessing the small bubble type works best.

For the record: On my water line coming in, I have a heat tape spiral wrapped with about 4" of spacing between spirals and then the split foam water line insulation around that with zip ties holding it all together.

My desires with the heat tape is to have something I can trim to length, or ... heck, I dunno... I just need such short runs in the following places: Low point drains, Dump valves, and exterior Dump ( If I do the cross connect mod that was discussed in the other frozen lines thread ).

An idea I just had... Maybe some sort of heat pipe setup... ( Used a lot in computer cooling ). Basically, I'd end up with a run of flexible tubing filled with a non-freezing solution... Pass it through a heated compartment, and have it flow out and around the parts that need to be kept warm. I could have it thermostatically controlled based on outside temp... A little pump, low flow rate... It could work...

Now, to find the parts..
LK

 

[snuffy]

Congrats aquiring signal... I'll definitely keep everyone posted on what I do..

jpm: I looked at a few heat tape products at Lowes the other day.. Just seems like they are all too long for what I need. Great tip with the bubble wrap... I'm guessing the small bubble type works best.

For the record: On my water line coming in, I have a heat tape spiral wrapped with about 4" of spacing between spirals and then the split foam water line insulation around that with zip ties holding it all together.

My desires with the heat tape is to have something I can trim to length, or ... heck, I dunno... I just need such short runs in the following places: Low point drains, Dump valves, and exterior Dump ( If I do the cross connect mod that was discussed in the other frozen lines thread )


An idea I just had... Maybe some sort of heat pipe setup... ( Used a lot in computer cooling ). Basically, I'd end up with a run of flexible tubing filled with a non-freezing solution... Pass it through a heated compartment, and have it flow out and around the parts that need to be kept warm. I could have it thermostatically controlled based on outside temp... A little pump, low flow rate... It could work...

Now, to find the parts..
LK

Sounds like the cure is worse than the disease.

 

[NWTFHunter]

water line freeze

When we picked up our Bighorn we spent the first night at the dealer and the temps were in the teens. We had a water line freeze even though we ran the furnace to heat the underbelly. The service team checked it the next morning and found that a water line was in contact with metal frame. That transfered the cold temp. They evelvated the water line and put insulation between it and the frame. Think that has solved the problem.

 

[sailorand]

This year I am very happy to report that on the wet (west) coast, sometimes called the left coast of Canada, we ahev not yet had any real cold weather. Last year we really had a cold time. Today the forecast is for 45 degrees 1-2 inches of rain and winds of 50 mph with higher gusts to 70 mph.
I think it is time to dewinterize the Bighorn!! We leave here Jan 15 for Quartzsite an other very warm places. Heat it up for us folks, we are on the way soon.
Rand

 

[aquiring signal]

found the weak point

Okay, here we go again. 13 degrees this morning and no water in the kitchen. This time both the hot & cold are frozen. But from we learned last time we were able to go right to the problem and had quick resolution.

You may remember last time we put a hair dryer to the low point drain points and also covered some floor heat vents in hopes of forcing more warm air into the underbelly. One of those two actions fixed the problem, but I wasn’t sure which until now.

It was definitely the low point drains! We put the hair dryer on them and 5 minutes later had cold water running, 5 more minutes and we had hot water, too. We did nothing with the vents this time so this is definitely the weak point.

Another interesting point – since I last had this freezing problem we’ve moved about 1500 miles west and have had the unit in for service along the way. They opened the bottom of the trailer & rerouted a water line or two and added foam. We were thinking maybe a water line against a frame member might have contributed to it freezing. Though that may have helped, it did not solve the problem.

So, now I need to insulate and/or heat those drain points. If anyone comes up with an effective and easy way to do this, I’d love to see pics.

 

[aquiring signal]

Temperatures in the teens forecast again for tonight. I slid 1" ID foam pipe insulation over each of the two low point drain lines and wrapped them both with some fiberglass insulation batting. We'll know in the morning if it works.

 

[jbeletti]

How about wrapping the lines with an electric heat cable. Maybe a short one for each of these low-drain point lines. These ones are thermostatically controlled and seem pretty affordable.

Jim

 

[sjrellis]

AS, I think wrapping them will work. I believe that is what dh did to ours when it froze a couple of weeks ago. (I do know he did not use an electric heat cable, tho). The water line was sitting on the metal frame, like you said, and so he got it off there and then wrapped it. I'll make sure tomorrow that is what he did.

 

[aquiring signal]

How about wrapping the lines with an electric heat cable. Maybe a short one for each of these low-drain point lines. These ones are thermostatically controlled and seem pretty affordable.

Jim

Jim, If they froze again my plan was to add heat, like on our incoming city water line. Thanks for the link, I was wondering about shorter lengths than I've found at Home Depot and Lowes. A 3' length would do it. All I seem to find at the stores is 12' or 25'.

This morning it was much warmer (26 degree) than yesterday morning (13 degrees) so nothing froze. Next time we are in the teens or single digits I'll know if we're good. Maybe I should ad the heat tape as a precaution and not test the insulation job alone.

 

[jpmorgan37]

An easy way out would be to put a short lamp base with a 75 watt flood light pointing at the drains. That would give plenty of heat to keep them from freezing. I used to do that with an outside water pump and it worked down to zero with no problem. If you want to go with the heat tape, check with Ace Hardware. They have them down to 3 foot lengths.

 

[jbeletti]

High of 4 degrees here for tomorrow. I would not want to be living in any RV in those temps. Not by choice anyway.

 

[aquiring signal]

High of 4 degrees here for tomorrow. I would not want to be living in any RV in those temps. Not by choice anyway.

This will be our third winter in an RV, but the first in the Bighorn. I have to say I enjoy the adventure. If you are prepared and take all the cold weather precautions, it's not a huge problem and is very gratifying. It's plenty warm inside, that's never been an issue. The water freezing thing is manageable, but with each coach there is some "testing" to find the weak points of your rig. (In our case, these low point drains). Once you know the weak points and address them it's smooth sailing.

 

[aquiring signal]

An easy way out would be to put a short lamp base with a 75 watt flood light pointing at the drains. That would give plenty of heat to keep them from freezing. I used to do that with an outside water pump and it worked down to zero with no problem. If you want to go with the heat tape, check with Ace Hardware. They have them down to 3 foot lengths.

Thanks, I'll try to find an Ace Hardware store this weekend. That'll save me $11 in shipping.

 

[aquiring signal]

Single digit temps this morning and the kitchen water is frozen again. Looks like the insulation alone on the low point drains isn't enough. I bought a 3' heat cable at Ace and am ready to install it.

But first, I want to get the water flowing again. I removed my insulation from the drains and added the hair dryer. This didn't work, maybe because the outside air is so cold. I lowered the corragated belly cover a bit and put the hair dryer closer to the tees and bingo, 10 minutes later we have hot water in the kitchen. But still no cold water. Ran it longer and still nothing. While I was down there I noticed another drain line on the drivers side.

The drain point valves I've been dealing with are on entry door side and is two lines coming out from the bottom and are surrounded by sprayed in foam insulation. The one on the other (drivers) side is a singe line and no sign of any insulation. I wonder if that one is a problem, too. Anyone know where that goes?

 

[jpmorgan37]

If it's like mine, it's the drain for the fresh water tank.

 

[aquiring signal]

If it's like mine, it's the drain for the fresh water tank.

Well, if that's what it is, it's probably not my problem. But I think I'll add some insulation around where is penetrates the bottom of the trailer. Cold air may be getting in there.

Back to the other side of the trailer, I partially opened the bottom and added the heat strip to the water lines leading to the door side low point drains. I added a little insulation and buttoned it back up & plugged it in. We'll see if this helps.

 

[linuxkidd]

I added bubble wrap to my Low point drains. It's been down in the mid twenties at night, and not over the freezing mark for about the last 5 or 6 days with no problems on the Kitchen water.

Tonight however... It's supposed to be down to 8 Degrees F. SO.. We shall see.

On a lower note.. It would seem that my ice maker water line has indeed busted. I walked outside to see ice down the side of the slide out starting at the bottom vent area for the fridge. So.. another trip into the belly of the beast to turn off the supply valve ( should have done that several days ago obviously ). I'm not worried really about winterizing that line since it's already ruptured. I'll just wait for the cold weather to be over and replace it with new line... Also will look into insulating / heat taping that line to protect against future episodes.

LK