Trailer Brakes and RAM Integrated Brake Controller

[Doublegranch]

Just checked with my Ram dealer and there is no pending flash for the brake controller issue as reported on this thread.
They put my VIN into the system and nothing is showing as of this date.
I will use the Sundance with the brakes as is for the Colo Rally next week and decided what to do after it's first Rally.
At least with the tow haul and EB, the brakes were not heavily required in towing it back from Elkhart and I didn't notice a problem until I did a test after arriving at home. The break away does lock up the brakes when activated and the RV dealer stated I had 10 volts which is standard. Not sure where those 10 volts were measured from, wheels or junction box.

 

[JWalker]

Wow, now I'm scratching my head. I seem to not have much of an issue with the breaking power in my RAM. I'm running the controller about 6.5 and when I do the manual control, it drags the camper to a stop pretty quick. When I break with the footpedal, it seems to be proportional. Now I'm wondering if it should be more??

 

[Titanguy]

I would love to test this idea of new wiring, but not sure how to proceed!!!
There are two wires coming off each brake, black and white, do you splice both or one?
If one, does it matter on the color? Would you run one wire from each wheel or from the two wheels on each side of the axles to the ground? I am up for saving a bunch of money if it really works!

Are you in AZ.? I am in Mesa now and in AZ until late March with one of my installers. I have been seeing more and more posts on all forums re: 2015 and newer Ram brake controller issues with electric brakes and a few with EOH Disc Systems. We have done no installs on 2016 but have 1 scheduled and no 2017's.
We have done 3 on 2015 and I have messages out for those guys to call me. one has responded with no issues and I assume the other 2 will be the same as I have had no calls with problems.

But, I am seeing enough posts that I would like to investigate further. I am considering purchasing a high dollar IBC Testing Unit but don't have enough info that tells me it will diagnose the issues.
I am waiting on they're engineer to call me.

If you are interested, I would like to do some testing on your 2016 Ram IBC. I have a 2014 Ram and a 2015 16,000 lb. trailer with disc brakes that work perfectly.

Give me a call if you are interested. Ron Russell 405-626-7009

- - - Updated - - -

 

[SNOKING]

This thread talks about the issues with the 2015+ IBC. The signal to the brakes as pulse modulated and they shortened up the pulse width. There was an effort deep in RAM to fix it, however it has gone quiet.

http://www.ramforum.com/f119/brake_controller-71708/

Chris

 

[Titanguy]

Ram came out with a Technical Service Bulletin in Oct. 2016 TSB # 08-082-16 ITBM

Evidently a braking problem when the trailer is connected before starting the truck.
Seems that the controller works fine as long as you start the truck then plug in the 7 way.

Odd but that's what they say.

 

[SNOKING]

[FONT=&quot]

Here is the verbiage from the TSB:

Integrated trailer brake control nodule

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:The customer may describe an intermittent condition where the trailer brakes feel as if theyare not working for the first few brake applies. This condition only happens if the trailer hasbeen connected before the vehicle was started.​

[/FONT]

​

 

[Bones]

Here is the verbiage from the TSB:

Integrated trailer brake control nodule

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:The customer may describe an intermittent condition where the trailer brakes feel as if theyare not working for the first few brake applies. This condition only happens if the trailer hasbeen connected before the vehicle was started.​

​

This is stupid

 

[SNOKING]

This is stupid

That's is why they came up with a TSB to correct it. Chris

 

[Hockster]

I converted to Disc Brakes 2 years ago.
Huge, Huge difference.
The 5er now stops when I apply the brakes.
It is well worth the money, and peace of mind to make the change.
No more White Knuckles and Bible Quotes when trying to stop.
The Federal Government mandated the change to at least Front Disc Brakes years ago, because the were 100% better than Hydraulic Drums Brakes.
Today, 4 wheel disc brakes are standard on every car & truck in the U.S.
Motorcycles also have Disc Brakes.
When was the last time you seen a car or truck with Electric Drums Brakes?
Never that I know of.
The average RV today I would guess weights at least 3 times as much as your car, so how does the RV Industry get away using a truly inferior system of braking.
I think you all see where I was headed with this.
Disc Brakes should be standard on every RV produced today.
Heartland should lead the industry in this endeavor.
Hockster

 

[crussian]

I converted to Disc Brakes 2 years ago.
Huge, Huge difference.
The 5er now stops when I apply the brakes.
It is well worth the money, and peace of mind to make the change.
No more White Knuckles and Bible Quotes when trying to stop.
The Federal Government mandated the change to at least Front Disc Brakes years ago, because the were 100% better than Hydraulic Drums Brakes.
Today, 4 wheel disc brakes are standard on every car & truck in the U.S.
Motorcycles also have Disc Brakes.
When was the last time you seen a car or truck with Electric Drums Brakes?
Never that I know of.
The average RV today I would guess weights at least 3 times as much as your car, so how does the RV Industry get away using a truly inferior system of braking.
I think you all see where I was headed with this.
Disc Brakes should be standard on every RV produced today.
Heartland should lead the industry in this endeavor.
Hockster

Hi Hockster, thanks for the enlightening read. If I may intrude, what's the approximate cost of converting my 2015 Oakmont to discs?

Thanks in advance.

 

[danemayer]

I converted to Disc Brakes 2 years ago.
....
Disc Brakes should be standard on every RV produced today.

Heartland should lead the industry in this endeavor.

Most people are paying around $3,000 to get disc brakes. As a Landmark 365 option, they're $3192.

I'm guessing that with a forced $3,000 price difference, dealers would probably stock 1 or 2 Heartland units and then steer you to the lower priced competition. And not knowing what they're missing, most people would buy the competitive product. Could the dealer sell the added value? Sure. Will he? Well, given that's the tougher sale, probably not.

Proof point? How many people do you think order the Landmark 365 option? How many dealers include it for units that go on the lot?

Fortunately, as you found, there are aftermarket options.

 

[Bones]

Hi Hockster, thanks for the enlightening read. If I may intrude, what's the approximate cost of converting my 2015 Oakmont to discs?

Thanks in advance.

Ron the titan guy sells a conversion kit. I think it is somewhere around 1600 bucks for a diy kit. More if you have one of his installers do it.

 

[Hockster]

I did the conversion myself for about $2,000.00
I realize most people can't do them, & I believe the quote from Gary Wheeler at Morryde was $3,000.00, Two years ago.
I know what Heartland's price is for the install, but just like anything else, the price drops on mass production.
Why doesn't Heartland offer this as an option across the board?
There's money to be made if they at least offered this as an option on the Landmark, Big Horn, & Big Country, plus their Toy Haulers.
They already offer it on Landmark.
Big Horn & Big Country are on the same line.
Lippert does the running gear, makes no difference to them if they install axles with Drum Brakes or Disc Brakes, labors the same.
Only difference is the brake lines or wires.
Little more labor running lines vs wires.
Again, mass production realizes lower cost.
I'm considering a 2018 Big Country 3560SS.
The first thing I will do is send it to Morryde for Disc Brakes, possibly I.S. and that new fold down entry step they offer.
This is money that Heartland could be making.
Heartland has been known for innovation, let's be one of the leaders in the industry on this.
Hockster

 

[Hockster]

I spent 41 years working maintenance.
35 years of that as a Journeymen Electrician, 12ys in a Paper Mill & 25yrs in one of the largest Coal Fired Power Plants in Michigan for DTE Energy.
We had a saying that went like this,
"You lose money on the first one, after that it's all profit".
When you do the first one of anything, you learn from your mistakes, and where to economize on your labor and material.
Subsequent ones are were the profit is realized.
"Time is money".
I do believe Heartland can make money on the Disc Brakes Option, instead of their customers having to do this done aftermarket.
Hockster

 

[danemayer]

I do believe Heartland can make money on the Disc Brakes Option

Heartland no doubt makes money on the LM 365 disc brake option at $3,192. The issue isn't whether they make money. The issue they'll face is whether people who don't know better will pay extra for disc brakes or buy a coach that costs less.

 

[Bones]

disc brakes or not I don't know if will really help with the controller issue.

 

[BigGuy82]

Heartland no doubt makes money on the LM 365 disc brake option at $3,192. The issue isn't whether they make money. The issue they'll face is whether people who don't know better will pay extra for disc brakes or buy a coach that costs less.

There is an effective way to get them on every single trailer - legislate it. Why do cars have safety glass, seat belts, disc brakes, warning flashers, etc.? Because these are important safety issues that auto manufacturers wouldn't voluntarily step up to so the government mandated implementation. Consumers who wouldn't pay for safety that protects them and others had the choice removed. I'm not a big government guy, but if this industry won't step up, the government can and should do it for them. Makes me wonder what the RVIA does.

And yes, I have written to my representatives at the state and federal level about this. Not that they'll listen, but you've got to start somewhere.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[farside291]

With my 2016 Ram, the trailer wouldn't lock the wheels with a slow speed test. I have the controller set to 8.5. I had an emergency stop late last year where I slammed on the truck brakes hard. The trailer did lock the wheels and slide to the right. I know because my Mother-in-law saw it sliding. Maybe there is some difference in pulling the manual slide lever to full brake and doing a full hard brake at speed. I know with the 14 inch disks on the Ram and the exhaust brake on Auto I came to a full stop in a very short distance. The car in front of me slammed on there brakes, caught me for just an instant eye balling the gas pumps in the distance at the Bucky's. Won't do that again, I think I took a bite out of the seat, if you know what I mean. I would love to upgrade to disks but as long as the trailer stops I am good.

 

[ksucats]

Have a 2015 Ford with the IBC and I have the same issue at low speed. However, my wife has noticed that if I make a hard stop (light changes suddenly for example) I will smoke tires. So, I believe that the proportional to brake pedal pressure is a true fact. I did own a RAM three vehicles ago with one of the first IBCs. EOH brakes and the IBC would not recognize the EOH Master Cylinder. Fix (per guidance from star) was to add a small light bulb between the wires coming into the controller. It needed that added resistance to recognize that I actually had brakes installed. Worked like a charm.

 

[roundabout]

I have currently a 2015 ram 3500. IBC works great compared to my previous 2010 ram 3500 also with an IBC. I read up on the 2010 problems and concluded it was designed to handle just what the frame receiver hitch was rated for. #5000. I towed a #7000 tag trailer without a problem but when I hooked up my 5th wheel for the first time. It felt like I didn't have any trailer brakes at double the weight.

The 2015 has options other than just gain control like the 2010. I have it set heavey electric and 7 without an issue. If I remember correctly. It is a proportional controller.

As as far as the voltage. I read on a different site that because it's a PWM controller. Rapid cycling of 12 volts. Your voltage meter will indicate an average voltage so you may never see 13 volts which makes sense to me.

Big thing is sorting it out. I think it would be difficult to lock up four tires carrying #14,000 on dry pavement without air brakes. But if you can stop the extra weight of the trailer your doing better than what I've read that extra distance will be required to stop when towing.

I did replace my 2010 IBC as soon as I got the rv home. I really like the 2015 controller. Might be the ground circuit or the 12 v power circuit or even glazed brake shoes. But if it takes replacing the controller or even upgrading to disc brakes. You should feel confident you can stop.



2010 Ram 3500 HD traded in for new 2015 3500 HD DRW mega cab with the 3.42 gears
I haven't hooked up yet, we'll see how it pulls with 17" wheels. (Pulls great !)
2014 Cyclone 3100
G614 Goodyears
Good Sam gps
Trimark keyed alike
Xantex 2000 watt inverter "Inverter Service Center"
Blue Sea System toggle source selector
L.E.D. running lights
Quadra Bigfoot levelers
Dexter wet bolts
Boyo wireless backup camera
EMS-HW50C
TST 507RV
Smittybuilt air compressor
Splendide 2100XC
26k Husky hitch
Mor Ryde pin box
6-volt 240 AH batteries
Added dinette
Replaced L.E.D. tail lights with Leading Edge Trailer light bars (made in the US)