Trailer Towing – ST Tires vs. LT Tires

[JohnD]

Re: Heartland . . . Quit giving us cheap tires!

" I don't think the Heartland Owners website is the right place to start an RV owners movement on an issue involving a number of RV brands. I would go to some general RV website like RVNet, IRV2 or Good Sam. "



Because the freedom to criticize on this forum is a gift from Hearland not found on other RV owner's forums. Because Heartland supports their owners to such a large financial degree in their monetary and service support at Heartland National Rallies, Heartland Regional Rallies and Heartland Chapter Rallies. Because Heartland has gone above and beyond their written warranty responsibilities in repairing 5 year old rigs like mine with frame flex, with a week's service in their factory repair facility - FREE.

No, I'm not a mindless Heartland cheerleader, but I am grateful for all the positive things that Heartland has done, and don't think their owners website is the proper place to start a towable RV wide complaint movement. BTW, how many Cameo, Montana, HR or other owners will you attract to your cause on the Heartland owners website???

**Moderator Edit**

However, what will it take to get the trailer manufactures' to do something about using these cheap tires?

Perhaps somebody getting killed?

One day it will happen . . . that is all I am saying . . .

 

[jimtoo]

Re: Heartland . . . Quit giving us cheap tires!

OK.. everyone take a deep breath,,, relax.

 

[JanAndBill]

If there is a product affecting vehicle safety then your complaints should be filed with the NHTSA. Here is the link https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/online.cfm Last time I checked there were very few complaints regarding ST tires, and definately not enough to trigger action for recalls. If you really believe something should be done, then this is the place to start not this forum.

 

[priorguy]

If there is a product affecting vehicle safety then your complaints should be filed with the NHTSA. Here is the link https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/online.cfm Last time I checked there were very few complaints regarding ST tires, and definately not enough to trigger action for recalls. If you really believe something should be done, then this is the place to start not this forum.

Well put. Internet forums only go so far. Government agencies are the ones to take **** action. ************ Everybody remembers the Toyota gas pedal fiasco. I think there were only a handful of incidents but the NHTSA made them retrofit every vehicle to prevent the same issue.



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[tireman9]

Re: Heartland . . . Quit giving us cheap tires!

**Moderator Edit**

However, what will it take to get the trailer manufactures' to do something about using these cheap tires?

snip. . .

I would suggest that demanding better tires with at least 15% reserve load i.e. capacity above GAWR or you will not buy would get attention if a big enough number of owners made the demand.

The downside is that you will need to pay more for the trailer and a good many buyers are really shopping on price not quality & durability.

 

[tireman9]

Y'all take this for what it is worth but I read this on the Tire Rack's website

However Goodyear Marathon and Power King Towmax STR tires featuring the ST size designation may be used at speeds between 66 and 75 mph (106 and 121 km/h) by increasing their cold inflation pressure by 10 psi (69 kPa) above the recommended pressure for the rated maximum load.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=219


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 3 HD

That is true. It is also true that you can exceed the engine red line. The question is do you expect there to be no negative consequences to either action. There is also the assumption you have never operated the tire at less than the inflation molded on the tire sidewall and never exceeded the tire's maximum load capacity. With over half of RVs having overloaded tires based on actual individual tire scale weights by RVSEF.

 

[tireman9]

I note a number of rather heated comments in this thread. As a retired Tire Design and Quality Engineer with 40 years experience I feel it is necessary to provide some facts.
1. Over half of the thousands of RVs that have had their actual tire loads measured were found to have at least one and many times all of their tires overloaded.
2. It is not unusual to find one or more tires on trailers to be inflated below the inflation shown on the tire placard
3. Finite Element analysis shows that multi axle applications have inter-ply shear forces (the ones that try to tear the tire apart) about 24% higher than would be seen in normal vehicle (tires at the corners) application.

All of this points to the major reasons trailer tires fail at an apparent higher rate than tires not in trailer application.

 

[kowAlski631]

Here are some real world facts. Tires on RV trailers fail. I have experienced it. Others have experienced it.

What tires DO YOU have on your Coachman?


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

 

[JohnD]

Luckily, I haven't experienced tire failure on my trailer . . . yet!

And I hope I never do!

I will be replacing my all five of my BlowMax's (with less than 3000 miles on them) this spring before we venture off on our summer travels!

 

[kowAlski631]

We believed that with keeping our trailer at safe weight, monitoring our tires with our TPMS, and checking tire pressure & condition at least once a day, we'd be without issues. We weren't. Had we been advised of the opportunity to do an upgrade at time of purchase, we would have done so. We weren't, we didn't, rest is history.

Safe travels.


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

 

[JohnD]

We believed that with keeping our trailer at safe weight, monitoring our tires with our TPMS, and checking tire pressure & condition at least once a day, we'd be without issues. We weren't. Had we been advised of the opportunity to do an upgrade at time of purchase, we would have done so. We weren't, we didn't, rest is history.

Exactly . . . !

 

[dave10a]

Tireman9-- I commend you on your posts. They are great. My trailer tires on the rear axle are scuffing because the axle is slightly out of align with the front axle. The center to center axle measurement is 1.25 inches different side to side when sitting level connected to the truck. I beleive this is caused by the uneven weight distribution (side-side) of the trailer because of the uneven weight distribution of the basic trailer design (slides and washer/dryer). The rear right tire runs 10 deg hotter than the other tires because of this I think. All tires are inflated to 110 psi cold. I don't know if this is a concern or not. The tires have 12,000 miles and I rotated front to rear at 10,000 miles. No signs of problems other than slight scuffing of the tread. Also the overall trailer weight is well below mfg. specs when traveling at my usual 62mph.
Do you think I need to be concerned?

 

[JohnDar]

Watching from the sidelines and curious about ST vs. LT, is there an ST tire that has the G-load rating? Can't say I've found one searching the internet. And since my rig came with G's, I refuse to put anything less on it.

And based on the 2011 RVSEF weighing, I'm not overweight on any tire. Since then, I've probably taken stuff out of the trailer, rather than adding anything.

 

[wdk450]

Tireman9-- I commend you on your posts. They are great. My trailer tires on the rear axle are scuffing because the axle is slightly out of align with the front axle. The center to center axle measurement is 1.25 inches different side to side when sitting level connected to the truck. I beleive this is caused by the uneven weight distribution (side-side) of the trailer because of the uneven weight distribution of the basic trailer design (slides and washer/dryer). The rear right tire runs 10 deg hotter than the other tires because of this I think. All tires are inflated to 110 psi cold. I don't know if this is a concern or not. The tires have 12,000 miles and I rotated front to rear at 10,000 miles. No signs of problems other than slight scuffing of the tread. Also the overall trailer weight is well below mfg. specs when traveling at my usual 62mph.
Do you think I need to be concerned?

Dave:
I would seriously think about going to a large vehicle alignment shop. I did this on the advice of another Bighorn owner in Nebraska on my way back to California from the Goshen Rally last summer. As I recall it took about an hour and a half and cost about $300 ($150 an axle ?). The guy had a computerized laser device with sensors on the wheels and had to get 4 adjustments within spec on each wheel. Yes, he used a 1 ton air bottle jack with a U - shaped hangar frame over the axle to accomplish these alignments.

 

[tireman9]

Here are some real world facts. Tires on RV trailers fail. I have experienced it. Others have experienced it.

What tires DO YOU have on your Coachman?


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

Previously answered your question.
Firestone Transforce HT 235/85R16 LR-E with 15 to 25% reserve load capacity as confirmed with 4 corner scale weights by RVSEF

 

[wdk450]

Watching from the sidelines and curious about ST vs. LT, is there an ST tire that has the G-load rating? Can't say I've found one searching the internet. And since my rig came with G's, I refuse to put anything less on it.

John: Did you mean to say "Is there an LT tire that has the G-Load rating"? My Bighorn CAME new with ST235-85R16 LR-G Freestar tires which developed sidewall bubbles.

 

[JohnDar]

No, I was asking if there is a ST tire with a G-rating. Just out of curiosity. My OEM Freestars still look like new. No blisters, weather checking, or warts. But then, I don't pull it around as much as most of you do. And if they're not rolling, they're covered. Mold date is 5207, so they're getting a little long in the tooth, regardless.

No way I'll put anything less than a G-rated tire on it.

 

[wdk450]

No, I was asking if there is a ST tire with a G-rating. Just out of curiosity. My OEM Freestars still look like new. No blisters, weather checking, or warts. But then, I don't pull it around as much as most of you do. And if they're not rolling, they're covered. Mold date is 5207, so they're getting a little long in the tooth, regardless.

No way I'll put anything less than a G-rated tire on it.

John:
ST235-85R 16 LRG (14 ply) tires I know of: Freestar, Geostar, Goodyear, Gladiator, Vanguard, Samson, Pro Meter (4080 lb. load rating!). I got most of these brands with an E-Bay search.

Upon edit: I came across several posts on the IRV2 forum saying that no radial tire REALLY has 14 plies any more. Now I don't know what to believe about this. Here is a quote of one of those IRV2 posts:

"All tire brands sold in the US use the same weight carrying nomenclature. The 14 ply rated tires are Load Range G. The Michelins do not actually have 14 plies any more than the Yokohamas. Look on the side walls and you will see molded into the tire the actual #'s of plies. The Michelin will say " 1 sidewall ply; 4 tread plies. The ply rating dates back to the 1950's and is calculated from the Load Rating."

 

[JohnDar]

I think those tire are LT's, not ST. My Freestars are LT's. I was just curious with all the hype about ST'a being recommended by some in this thread if they are made in anything higher than an E-rating.

 

[danemayer]

The Goodyear G614 tires are LTs, but that's a certification and marketing decision by Goodyear. The Goodyear documents show that the tire is specifically designed for regional trailer applications. Because they choose to test/certify to the tougher LT standard, it goes out the door with an LT designation and can be used in LT applications as well as ST.

I don't know how the others are tested/labeled/marketed.