Water, water everywhere!

[SueJean]

Hi Ya!

Today we planned to hit the road early (for us!) and things did not go as usual. In fact, things went horribly wrong and I'm not sure how to explain this fully. I'm hoping for some direction on this, but I fear that this means another trip back to the shop again.

DH went out to dump the black tank and was planning on doing some flushing of the tank to make sure the sewer line was clear before packing it up. He hooked up his water hose to the flushing connection as he's done many times in the past and turned on the water. (We did notice that the water pressure in this park was VERY HIGH as our water hose burst a couple of days before that and had to be replaced. Some kind of strange on/off thing that didn't allow us to control how open or closed it was.)

I was inside packing things away when I hear the sound of water spraying against the bathroom wall (or so it seems). The water sounds stop as DH turns it off because he has nothing coming out. I'm not paying attention to any of this.

Next thing I notice is the sound of dripping water coming from the electrical cabinet. I open it to find water dripping from the upper edge of the cabinet. I start pulling everything out and mopping up water. I found some water on the bathroom floor and water soaked the bottom edge of the carpeting on the stairs and on the kitchen floor around the stairs.

I went outside to find water dripping from the bottom frame and from the covering underneath.

Our solar monitors are going haywire so I had DH shut off all external power and everything else that I could think of. Then we opened and pulled apart everything with screws in the area of the electrical panel.

All of the cabling and breaker boxes had water dripping or pooling from them. We cleaned up all the water that we could get to and then left everything apart all over the floor hoping that our drive would dry things out.

The solar monitor and inverter panel are now working normally and things are dried out, but I'm not sure where the leak/break has occurred so I'm scared to hook up any water or external power at this point.

Anybody got any really good ideas about this??? We're on the road with a "broken wing" here and it's just the wrong weekend!

Blessings,

SueJean

 

[Bobby A]

Sounds like the check valve thats located in the shower access panel went bad, I had the same thing happen to me. The good news it was clean water right ???

 

[jbeletti]

SueJean,

Sorry to hear of this trouble. Since it sounds like a leak occurred when you were flushing the black tank, I would suspect that plumbing circuit. To my understanding, the line goes from the back of the connection port in the UDC, to a check valve that is likely in an interior wall. From that check valve, the line goes back down the wall and under the floor into the sprayer in the black tank.

It's my "guess" that the issue is at the check valve. At some point, Heartland moved the check valve to a more accessible location, behind the round inspection port in the shower stall, below the faucet. Spin that cover out and look into that hole. If you see 4 lines, not 2, then 2 of them connect to the check valve. If you see 2 lines only, then the check valve is likely inside an interior wall.

Others here who have torn into such things will chime in with better information.

Jim

 

[Tankie]

suejean, on our 3670RL the black water flush connects to the tank on the door side of the coach. It sounds to me like the high water pressure blew that connection. If you open up your access panel in the basement you should be able to follow the line from the connection over to the tank and see if its loose. If it did blow off, do not hook up the water to the black tank flush and it should not leak because its an seperate line. Good luck tankie

 

[SueJean]

Hmmm.....the things I've had to learn in this last year.

Okay. I don't know what a UDC is and I didn't know there was a round inspection port in the shower stall as my "body scrubbies" have been hanging down right in front of it since we moved in.

But now I do! and when I opened it (all by myself!), I saw two lines - a red one and a blue one.

However, our shower is on the opposite side from the bathroom/toilet and the water was spraying out behind the electrical panel that is just inside the main door or back wall of the toilet room. I think the problem has occurred there somewhere behind the toilet.

I don't see how to access the area behind the electrical panel which is full of cables and plumbing lines. I've pulled out all of the panels that have screws and have only a small view of what's going on back there.

And yes and no, Bobby A. It wasn't exactly "black water", but I wouldn't say it was smelling perfectly clean either.

Anyway, you guys are the coolest! :angel: Thanks!

P.S. Thanks Tankie! We don't have an access panel to that area in our basement. I do know that cause our converter burned up the first week we had our unit and the guy had to work it out through the panel that holds the fire extinguisher. We have a 3400RL (we think).

 

[Tankie]

The black water tank is right below the toilet and if your elec. panel is at the bottom of stairs thats where the line hooks into the tank within a few feet.

 

[jbeletti]

Okay SueJean - you are closing in on it and learning some stuff along the way. So, the access port you found under your scrubbies is for servicing or replacing the shower faucet. Make sure it is put back in tight and make sure there is sealant around the flange of it where it meets the shower.

In your 2008 model year Bighorn, yes, it appears the check valve is in the wall behind the commode. Access will be tricky and will vary by floorplan. The valve and lines are installed before the walls are covered. Hence, difficult access and why we have taken this as a learning and don't put them there on LM/BH/BC anymore.

By the way, UDC = Universal Docking Center. This is that area, accessed outside the RV where the tank dump valves are, the water connections etc.

You will be well served to access the space under the floor where the water heater, furnace and pump are, as well as the back-side of the UDC). Access this area by removing a panel on what I refer to as the utility area bulkhead wall. Usually a black carpeted vertical wall in the main storage bay.

Once you gain access, find the back of the UDC. Identify the line on the back of the black tank flush port. Follow that line to see where exactly it goes up the wall. It is likely that you will see 2 lines go up the wall. One from the UDC and the other being the output of the check valve in the wall, going through the floor of the utility area and to the black tank. By locating all of this, you will be able to determine some options.

I see them as two-fold. One is to open up the wall from the commode side or other side to find and replace the check valve or repair connections as required. Second would be to cut the two lines in the utility area where the emerge from the wall and splice the line from the UDC together with the line directly to the back tank flusher, thus bypassing the check valve altogether.

The caveats I will give are these:
1. You really need a check valve in this plumbing circuit to isolate the campground's water supply from your black tank flusher
2. It's an RVIA mandate that we as a manufacturer have such a device inline when we build the units

So, "removing the check valve from the circuit is not something Heartland RVs can sanction, approve or recommend as a solution". It's something that some customers have done when in a pinch. Another option is to do nothing for now. Just don't use the black tank flusher until you can have a repair made to it by a dealer or service center.

Best of luck and please update us as this progresses. It not only makes good Internet reading , but seriously, it may help others should it ever happen to them. If you do make the repairs yourself, consider taking before and after pictures of your progress as it may make a nice help document once day.

Jim

 

[cookie]

SueJean, you mentioned some kind of strange on/off thing that didn't let you control how open or closed it was. You also mentioned that your hose burst.
Are you using a good pressure regulator that may have prevented these problems?
I have the same rig that you do. The back flow preventor is located up in the outside wall next to your toilet. This is the area where the converter is. You can access that area by removing the bulkhead in the basement. Although you will not get to the valve, you will see two PEX tubes running up in the outside wall. If this is the source of the leak, if it were me, short term fix, I would just bypass the tank flush backflow preventor.
Please come back and let us know what you find.

Peace
Dave

 

[ChopperBill]

ATTENTION ALL HEARTLAND LINE WORKERS/PLUMBERS: I have a $100 bill to be sent to the the employee that will eliminate the black flush check valve on my 3610RE that will be built in the next few weeks! Just run my line right straight down from the UDS to the tank! This "check valve" has seemed to run a muck on many coaches and made a heck of a mess. My friend that bought a Landmark had to have his fixed twice after it flooded the kitchen floor.
On a serious note: Jim, where are they putting the check valve now?

p.s. The sani-flush line was not even hooked up in back of the UDS on my 3055 when I bought it. The dealer was behind that panel twice before I found it while doing some of my routine checking. Good thing I didnt try it before! Guess what is on top of my PDI check list for the new 3610?

 

[tmcran]

I just use the spray wand that fits onto the end of a hose and put in the toilet. It works well and no floods.

 

[ChopperBill]

I have one of those wands that I used on my truck camper. Worked well. The 3055 has an elbow below the toilet that wont allow use of the wand. Maybe the new 3610 has the toilet over the tank and I will have a straight shot with a wand?

 

[mikeandconnie]

Wow, I plan to modify my next week, I think I will just run a high pressure flex hose. But, it can worst, I seen a 2009 Landmark last month on ebay that over flowed the blackwater tank while he was flushing and the insurance had to replace the whole rig. So, I always make sure I have the black water tank open.

 

[jayc]

Bill the check valve is a plumbing code requirement and also a requirement of the RVIA, so your $100 bill is safe. Think about it, do you want to possibly contaminate the water coming into not only your trailer but everyone else's in the park? That can happen with the check valve left out.

 

[ChopperBill]

Bill the check valve is a plumbing code requirement and also a requirement of the RVIA, so your $100 bill is safe. Think about it, do you want to possibly contaminate the water coming into not only your trailer but everyone else's in the park? That can happen with the check valve left out.

Yes I know that. Did you see my little winky face? I don't think code says you have to hide the valve up where it can not be found and flood the whole trailer when it fails. Cant it be put behind the UDS where is can easily be seen and do minamal damage if it should fail? Also my guess is that the valve that is installed sells for about a buck a piece. Maybe one of a better quality could be used if they are so important.

 

[wdk450]

I am very nervous about backflow when using the flusher. I have a backflow valve on the end of my hose where it connects to the trailer.

 

[SouthernNights]

I think they put that valve up into a wall to obtain a certain height above the black tank. I do not know what that height is but obviously a wall is the only way to obtain it.

 

[Rmcgrath53]

Does anydody know if that valve is in the wall on a Sundance?

 

[ChopperBill]

Maybe I am missing something but cant one of these be used. Just screw in on the back of the inlet fitting in the UDS. Like wdk450 you can screw it on the end of your hose, but the problem then would be getting folks to use it.

 

[JohnDar]

Since that tank flusher is mounted about mid-height on the side of the tank, it's probably mounted high in the wall to help prevent sewage from getting up the line to it if the tank is full. With the thing mounted in the wall (not by the shower opening), you could cut a rectangular opening behind the commode to access it. Then install a plastic plumbing access panel to close it off. You could paint it if you like. I had to do something similar when my sister's rig developed a leak at the shower fittings and the only access was from the wall outside the bathroom that led to the bedroom. After she mopped up all the water and soaked carpet. Got the door at a local DIY hardware store and cut the hole to fit it. They also have them at Home Depot.

View attachment 7651

 

[SueJean]

SueJean, you mentioned some kind of strange on/off thing that didn't let you control how open or closed it was. You also mentioned that your hose burst.

Are you using a good pressure regulator that may have prevented these problems?

Hi Ya'll!

We are now safely hooked up and just down the road from our favorite ExploreUSA and everything appears to be working okay (as in no electrical problems/issues and we have the water hooked up for normal usage).

I did do some exploring behind the electrical panel to see if I could find any breaks, drips or leaks, but the valve thingie must be too high for me to reach. We plan to avoid using the black water flush feature until we can make a visit to the dealer to check this out more thoroughly. We still have lots of warranty time on our extended warranty.

Answers: Yes, Dave, we have learned the value of using a good pressure regulator and have one installed on the normal water inlet. If anyone doesn't have one of these things, look out.

We've found that water pressure varies even more than voltage/current levels in RV parks. This lesson came our way after a stay in Grand Junction, CO when we pulled out with water coming out all around the bottom of the frame and watered the roads for a mile or so.

The on/off thing I mentioned was the water faucet handle at the park. It's one of those old fashioned pump handle kind of things instead of a round twistie kind of thing. It was either full-on or full-off - no in-betweens.

DH didn't think about using the pressure regulator when he hooked up the hose to flush the black water tank using the internal sprayer system. It would have been better in hindsight to hook up the hose to the Flushmaster (or whatever you call that clear thing with the shut-off valve used for flushing the tanks), but we don't usually do it that way. Will modify future behavior in that regard!

Ah well, that's what we do out here, eh? Live and learn!