Water, water everywhere!
- Thread starter SueJean
- Start date
TXBobcat
Fulltime
suejean
Just a thought. If you only crack open the faucet on the shore water it only restricts the water flow, not the water pressure. I normally connect my regulator to the main hose (4ft) at the shore then the regulator then the Y valve (Splitter) then to my water filters then to the connection in the UDC.
Any time I flush my tanks I am never above the setting of my regulator, which is 50psi. If the campgound water pressure is to high I am safe and if it is lower than 50psi that is the max anyway.
I use my Surge Guard for the power and Water Regulator at all campgrounds.
BC
PS.. Good to see you out and about..
Just a thought. If you only crack open the faucet on the shore water it only restricts the water flow, not the water pressure. I normally connect my regulator to the main hose (4ft) at the shore then the regulator then the Y valve (Splitter) then to my water filters then to the connection in the UDC.
Any time I flush my tanks I am never above the setting of my regulator, which is 50psi. If the campgound water pressure is to high I am safe and if it is lower than 50psi that is the max anyway.
I use my Surge Guard for the power and Water Regulator at all campgrounds.
BC
PS.. Good to see you out and about..
ChopperBill
Well-known member
Just a thought. The sani-flush system is always an open line. How could too much pressure build up to blow a line or a fitting. Just saying.
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
I run everything, including the tank flush, after my regulator and filtration system, so there is no possibility of overpressure hitting the coach. When I use the HydroFlush adapter at the sewer connection, I run a wye off the campground spigot and a separate hose.
TXBobcat
Fulltime
I am not sure that is the case.. It was my understanding that there is a section inside the black tank that sprays water around the bottom to help flush out any debris.
Has any one taken the black tank apart and checked it. A friend of mine did some work on his Forest River Wildcat which I think works about the same way. He removed the antisiphon valve that makes all the noise behind the wall and drilled more holes in the part in the tank to allow more water to wash around..
JB.. Is there a way you can find out and maybe give us a graphic of what the inside of the black tank looks like with the flush. Or maybe someone from the factory can jump in and give us a hint.
BC
jnbhobe
Well-known member
Is this what your wondering about Bob ???http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/product/tornado-permanent-tank-rinser/4969 Most of the flush systems are like this. Jon
rick_debbie_gallant
Well-known member
I have had and witnessed my share of fire hoses rupture spewing water "everywhere" because of too much water pressure, even when flowing through a 1.5 inch straight tip, cant get more unrestricted than that. Everything has it's bursting point. Water can not be compressed without something giving way. That is the reason for the pressure regulator. If you don,t use one at the water source then sooner or later you will get wet and at the very least have to buy a new hose. Or as in SueJeans case, get a good soaking on the inside of the trailer.
superduty08
Tennessee Chapter Leaders
I had the flush line check valve crack and flood my kithen floor. It also burned out my inverter, fortunatly under warranty. My dealer accesed the valve by removing the trim around the paneling inside the small closet where the water level and pump switch is located. He then remove the paneling and the valve was easy to reach. He installed another cheap plastic valve. He stated that this was the standard factory installed valve used by most manufactors. As stated he was not allowed to remove the valve due to code. The only way a backflow could occur would be not to open your tank dump valve, let the tank fill up and create a higher pressure from the tank than on your water inlet line. I promptly bypassed mine until I can find a brass valve that I can trust. I suggested then to use a better quality valve and make it accessable.
Took a cue from this thread to burn 2 hours creating a Wiki page for Black Tank Flusher: //heartlandowners.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Black_Tank_Flusher
Hope it helps "and", I need someone to "send in" a write up on use of the Black Tank Flusher. Here's a link to submit to. I'd like to get several submissions and a Wiki Editor will pull from each to add the "usage text" to the Wiki.
Hope it helps "and", I need someone to "send in" a write up on use of the Black Tank Flusher. Here's a link to submit to. I'd like to get several submissions and a Wiki Editor will pull from each to add the "usage text" to the Wiki.
SueJean
Active Member
Nice work, Jim!
You get a gold star for this one!
I do wish that the ASSE 1001-02 statement on the ATMOSPHERIC VACUUM BREAKER/CHECK VALVE had been worded a bit differently. It says, "...device shall not be installed where the venting of water from the device during normal functioning will cause damage."
In my opinion it would have been better to say, "device shall not be installed where the venting of water from the device during normal or abnormal functioning will cause damage." I've never been all that keen on the mixture of electronics and plumbing (water). Just my opinion.....
Anyway I appreciate all the help and support from all of you. I have definitely learned a lot from this latest experience. We've been leaving the pressure regulator screwed into the water intake in the UDC. I never considered moving it to the source, but I see that this way would have saved a hose and probably also have prevented this from happening. Hmmm............
We will be reworking our approach on this immediately.
P.S. Hey Bobcat! Looking forward to meeting you and your crew at Jimtoo's birthday celebration, uh....I mean the Spring, TX rally. (And everyone else that will be there!)
You get a gold star for this one!
I do wish that the ASSE 1001-02 statement on the ATMOSPHERIC VACUUM BREAKER/CHECK VALVE had been worded a bit differently. It says, "...device shall not be installed where the venting of water from the device during normal functioning will cause damage."
In my opinion it would have been better to say, "device shall not be installed where the venting of water from the device during normal or abnormal functioning will cause damage." I've never been all that keen on the mixture of electronics and plumbing (water). Just my opinion.....
Anyway I appreciate all the help and support from all of you. I have definitely learned a lot from this latest experience. We've been leaving the pressure regulator screwed into the water intake in the UDC. I never considered moving it to the source, but I see that this way would have saved a hose and probably also have prevented this from happening. Hmmm............
We will be reworking our approach on this immediately.
P.S. Hey Bobcat! Looking forward to meeting you and your crew at Jimtoo's birthday celebration
, uh....I mean the Spring, TX rally. (And everyone else that will be there!)
Charlie Harris
Active Member
Sue Jean I just had this fixed on my 3400 Bighorn. The fire extiguisher mount just inside the door was removed and the tech could pull the pex lines down to fix the valve. Just enough space to get the lines down to fix. He did not have to remove any of the wall or cabinets to get to it The valve was about a foot above the fire extiguisher access in the wall.
Thanks SueJean - I'll wear my gold star proudly today
I agree with you on the wording of the statement. After I downloaded and read it - I figured it would garner a chuckle.
Charles Harris' input is great - I've heard of accessing the valve that way too. That would be great if your valve is behind your fire extinguisher, albeit higher.
For all who followed the link to the Wiki article - thanks for checking it out. I'd like each of you to consider the potential power of the Wiki. If we could have content like that for many of the items in our RVs - how valuable would that be? We can have it. We have a few Wiki editors and users who have contributed content thus far. That said, Alan (2010augusta) has done most of the heavy lifting, adding much of the content and formatting. And the Wiki will continue to get better and look better. Right now, the front page is a little clunky. As we add more content to the Wiki, we'll spend more time on the front page. So - I ask each of you now, please check the Wiki out. Look at the glossary or category index. Think of something you'd like to see added, then submit not just that idea, but a full write up as you'd like to see it. Don't worry about formatting. We'll take care of that.
Jim
I agree with you on the wording of the statement. After I downloaded and read it - I figured it would garner a chuckle.
Charles Harris' input is great - I've heard of accessing the valve that way too. That would be great if your valve is behind your fire extinguisher, albeit higher.
For all who followed the link to the Wiki article - thanks for checking it out. I'd like each of you to consider the potential power of the Wiki. If we could have content like that for many of the items in our RVs - how valuable would that be? We can have it. We have a few Wiki editors and users who have contributed content thus far. That said, Alan (2010augusta) has done most of the heavy lifting, adding much of the content and formatting. And the Wiki will continue to get better and look better. Right now, the front page is a little clunky. As we add more content to the Wiki, we'll spend more time on the front page. So - I ask each of you now, please check the Wiki out. Look at the glossary or category index. Think of something you'd like to see added, then submit not just that idea, but a full write up as you'd like to see it. Don't worry about formatting. We'll take care of that.
Jim
Bill,
On your new BH, the check valve can be found behind the shower access port as seen in image 5 on the Black Tank Flusher entry in the Wiki.
Jim
ChopperBill
Well-known member
EXCELLENT write up Jim! Try getting that info from Keystone or any of the other key players! I am glad they quit playing hide and seek with that vacuum breaker. An "atta boy" to Heartland! I with draw my $100 bill offer, I may use it to buy a brass valve like Superduty.
TXBobcat
Fulltime
Would someone please tell me what ATMOSPHERIC VACUUM BREAKER means.
I understand what a check valve means but can't visualize what a Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker would mean. So I Googled it.
Watts Back Flow Prevention
**************************************
7. What is an atmospheric vacuum breaker?
The most commonly used atmospheric anti-siphon vacuum breakers incorporate an atmospheric vent in combination with a check valve. Its operation depends on a supply of potable water to seal off the atmospheric vent, admitting the water to downstream equipment. If a negative pressure develops in the supply line, the loss of pressure permits the check valve to drop sealing the orifice while at the same time the vent opens admitting air to the system to break the vacuum.
8. Will an anti-siphon vacuum breaker protect against a
backpressure backflow condition?
Absolutely not! If there is an increase in the downstream pressure over that of the supply pressure, the check valve would tend to "modulate" thus permitting the backflow of contaminated water to pass through the orifice into the potable water supply line.
11. Where is an atmospheric vacuum breaker used?
Atmospheric vacuum breakers may be used only on connections to a non-potable system where the vacuum breaker is never subjected to backpressure and is installed on the discharge side of the last control valve. It must be installed above the usage point. It cannot be used under continuous pressure. (Also see #7)
**********************
Now if I am correct if the valve gets to much back pressure it will vent the water to relieve the pressure. That is why people are getting water all over the place, rather than the line breaking. The valve is installed backwards. How can anyone install that valve backwards?
I thought that the valves were breaking or the lines were not attached correctly. I had no idea what the valve was like or why they are needed. Actually who ever required this valve to be installed must be in Government. If you made a straight line to the tank and you have to much back pressure you will have a problem cleaning up the toilet room. Why do you need this valve. I would understand a check valve maybe.
Thanks for the info. We learn something every day.
BC
An interesting PDF on a valve.
I understand what a check valve means but can't visualize what a Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker would mean. So I Googled it.
Watts Back Flow Prevention
**************************************
7. What is an atmospheric vacuum breaker?
The most commonly used atmospheric anti-siphon vacuum breakers incorporate an atmospheric vent in combination with a check valve. Its operation depends on a supply of potable water to seal off the atmospheric vent, admitting the water to downstream equipment. If a negative pressure develops in the supply line, the loss of pressure permits the check valve to drop sealing the orifice while at the same time the vent opens admitting air to the system to break the vacuum.
8. Will an anti-siphon vacuum breaker protect against a
backpressure backflow condition?
Absolutely not! If there is an increase in the downstream pressure over that of the supply pressure, the check valve would tend to "modulate" thus permitting the backflow of contaminated water to pass through the orifice into the potable water supply line.
11. Where is an atmospheric vacuum breaker used?
Atmospheric vacuum breakers may be used only on connections to a non-potable system where the vacuum breaker is never subjected to backpressure and is installed on the discharge side of the last control valve. It must be installed above the usage point. It cannot be used under continuous pressure. (Also see #7)
**********************
Now if I am correct if the valve gets to much back pressure it will vent the water to relieve the pressure. That is why people are getting water all over the place, rather than the line breaking. The valve is installed backwards. How can anyone install that valve backwards?
I thought that the valves were breaking or the lines were not attached correctly. I had no idea what the valve was like or why they are needed. Actually who ever required this valve to be installed must be in Government. If you made a straight line to the tank and you have to much back pressure you will have a problem cleaning up the toilet room. Why do you need this valve. I would understand a check valve maybe.
Thanks for the info. We learn something every day.
BC
An interesting PDF on a valve.
rick_debbie_gallant
Well-known member
Is it correct to say then that: A check valve works under pressure.. An atmospheric vacuum breaker works because of the lack of water pressure?
TXBobcat
Fulltime
As I understand it, if the pressure coming from the black tank increases to be more than the incoming pressure, the valve will vent to the outside (meaning in your trailer in the wall) so the water does not start to flow back into the city water and contaminate the source. I also understand that it is a requirement of the Government, meaning the mfgr has to put it in if they are going to install this product in the trailers.
You as the owner of the trailer, can remove the valve and connect it directly to the black tank. (Now this is going to start some discussion, but I don't mean to start any, it is just a fact that you can but it may not be recommended...). In my opinion if you put in enough water to the black tank, it will overflow into the trailer anyway or the tank would burst if the pressure excedes the incoming pressure. Also if the back pressure is equal to the incoming pressure water will not flow. I do like the idea of a check valve, but venting this water line inside the trailer.. that seems to be a problem.
FWIW
BC
You as the owner of the trailer, can remove the valve and connect it directly to the black tank. (Now this is going to start some discussion, but I don't mean to start any, it is just a fact that you can but it may not be recommended...). In my opinion if you put in enough water to the black tank, it will overflow into the trailer anyway or the tank would burst if the pressure excedes the incoming pressure. Also if the back pressure is equal to the incoming pressure water will not flow. I do like the idea of a check valve, but venting this water line inside the trailer.. that seems to be a problem.
FWIW
BC
JohnDar
Prolifically Gabby Member
My read of Jim's Wiki post is that the vacuum breaker only needs to be 6" above the top of the black tank, not way the !%*!! up the wall. If I can fill the tank and the toilet to the brim, then I deserve to have a sewer trout fishing derby inside the trailer. So, moving it down into the space behind the basement wall, yet still 6" above the black tank, and even putting a funnel drain under it...just in case...should not pose a need for Federal Government intervention.
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