What to Tow a LM San Antonio

[mattpopp]

Matt, as an auto tech for over 45 years ...I do understand what you are saying. But the amount of rubber contacting the pavement does help stop a vehicle. With anti-lock brakes......sometimes its a mute point. The application pressure will only do what it will do under hard braking.

Though there is not twice as much traction in the rear of a DRW vs SRW. Mainly due to the sharing of ground pressure applied in a DRW setup. People that drive in winter conditions will see this first hand on how a DRW sucks compared to a SRW.

But my point of the comment is people that buy a DRW over a SRW because braking is better is incorrect. What you gain in contact area you lose in contact pressure. It's a give and take situation.

The 450's have a front rotor that is .9" larger in diameter. Assuming the pads are equal in size or larger, the same hydraulic pressure is applied or more, and if the piston surface area is the same or larger then you will see better braking. But even then you are trying to apply all of that force through the same tires found on a 350.

Now if Ford had an exhaust brake that actually worked there could be benefit from a DRW vs SRW(maybe, but doubtful). As the exhaust brake transfers it power through the rear wheels. Contrary to what some believe. Ford doesn't have an exhaust brake, they do have a good down shifting routine with keeping the TC locked. People confuse the two pretty often. At least my Ford 350 did not come with an exhaust brake.

 

[sengli]

The GM diesel powered HD series of pickups have a wonderful exhaust braking system on them from the 2011 and up model years. I use this tow haul mode with the exhaust brake enabled, and it works great, I hardly use the brakes at all going down hill. I had a 2500HD SRW originally and there is no comparison in the stability of the tow with between the SRW, and the dually I now have. I feel much safer. There is no way I would even think about towing my rig in snow!

 

[gebills]

Although I dream a little, thinking that maybe I should have bought our 2011 Dodge with dual wheels, I believe that I have the right rig for towing our BH3455RL. I would be a little more anxious if I were towing the Landmark, my thoughts are that if you stay within your weight limits, then all is fair. It seems that the dual wheels would provide more stability, but that is a little difficult to say in so much as I have had no problems with stability. As well, I don't daily drive this rig; matter of factly, it now remains parks unless we get a little snow here in the great NW, meaning, I'm glad it is SRW and this also works better with the SRW if I drive it on the Seattle streets.

The braking issue however is another matter. In one of the previous responses, "sengli" mentioned, the GM's have a exhaust brake and a Tow/Haul mode, as does the most recent Dodge I have purchased. I'm certain that others that have an exhaust brake and a "tow/haul" mode can testify to this as well; I can come down a 6% to 8% long grade and not touch the break pedal while towing. It is the slickest invention since Carters pills. Our Dodge 3500 is a SRW, and even in a 40mph (gusting 60mph) wind on winding roads, I have literally had no problems with stability. The only issue on braking that I notice is if driving through city streets amoungst the "crazies" weaving in and out of traffic, seems like the trailer brakes are less effective. Do wish it had hydraulic brakes, but that is a topic for another section. Good luck with your decision making. gebills

 

[mattpopp]

The GM diesel powered HD series of pickups have a wonderful exhaust braking system on them from the 2011 and up model years. I use this tow haul mode with the exhaust brake enabled, and it works great, I hardly use the brakes at all going down hill. I had a 2500HD SRW originally and there is no comparison in the stability of the tow with between the SRW, and the dually I now have. I feel much safer. There is no way I would even think about towing my rig in snow!

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I agree 100%. DRW is much more stable then a SWR while towing. GM and Dodge also have a great working Exhaust Brake. Unlike Ford, they claim an exhaust brake but it does nothing.

The Dually just doesn't brake any better then a SRW.

 

[dave10a]

I agree 100%. DRW is much more stable then a SWR while towing. GM and Dodge also have a great working Exhaust Brake. Unlike Ford, they claim an exhaust brake but it does nothing.

The Dually just doesn't brake any better then a SRW.

A properly equipped 2011-2013 Ford F350 SRW handles just as good as a dually IMHO. I would like to see proof to the contrary. As far as exhaust brake is concerned the Ford Diesel does not do as good as my motor home CAT did, but it does the job on every interstate I have traveled coast to coast. However you can over drive it like anything else. Experience is the operative word I am looking for.

 

[ghosst666]

A properly equipped 2011-2013 Ford F350 SRW handles just as good as a dually IMHO. I would like to see proof to the contrary. As far as exhaust brake is concerned the Ford Diesel does not do as good as my motor home CAT did, but it does the job on every interstate I have traveled coast to coast. However you can over drive it like anything else. Experience is the operative word I am looking for.

the exhaust brake does that only ..slows the exhaust down on exit..your cat probably had an engine brake which is different ,because it makes the valves work against the engine ,,makes it a compressor type device ..

 

[mattpopp]

A properly equipped 2011-2013 Ford F350 SRW handles just as good as a dually IMHO. I would like to see proof to the contrary. As far as exhaust brake is concerned the Ford Diesel does not do as good as my motor home CAT did, but it does the job on every interstate I have traveled coast to coast. However you can over drive it like anything else. Experience is the operative word I am looking for.

Tow your trailer with a DRW. You will understand the difference. Their is no modification that can be done to a SRW to give the stability of the DRW. If your SRW feels stabile then I can understand how you wouldn't believe it could be better with a DRW. It could be a different story if your pin weight was in excess of 3klbs.

The Ford "exhaust brake" does nothing. People confuse the transmission down shifting routine while in tow/haul mode with this exhaust brake.

If you are local to Houston you are more then welcome to hook my truck up to your trailer and go for a tow. I would be more then happy to let you see the difference.

 

[dave10a]

Tow your trailer with a DRW. You will understand the difference. Their is no modification that can be done to a SRW to give the stability of the DRW. If your SRW feels stabile then I can understand how you wouldn't believe it could be better with a DRW. It could be a different story if your pin weight was in excess of 3klbs.

The Ford "exhaust brake" does nothing. People confuse the transmission down shifting routine while in tow/haul mode with this exhaust brake.

If you are local to Houston you are more then welcome to hook my truck up to your trailer and go for a tow. I would be more then happy to let you see the difference.

Look dually crowd I am perfectly happy with my SRW F350, with stock Ford suspension with max upgrades pulling the San Antonio-- so give me a break.

 

[mattpopp]

Look dually crowd I am perfectly happy with my SRW F350, with stock Ford suspension with max upgrades pulling the San Antonio-- so give me a break.

I didn't mean to imply that you need a Dually. It's hard to hear the tone of somebody's voice when you have to read what they are saying. Just going from a SRW to a DRW towing the same trailer, there was a obvious difference in stability in my case.

 

[dave10a]

I didn't mean to imply that you need a Dually. It's hard to hear the tone of somebody's voice when you have to read what they are saying. Just going from a SRW to a DRW towing the same trailer, there was a obvious difference in stability in my case.

Again, where is the proof. So far I think people are allowing personal opinion over facts. So what is the so called obvious difference. Ford did a great job designing their truck and the burden is on the buyer to select the proper options. BTY there is no stability problem for my truck. I did a lot of research before to buying the minimum truck to pull the maximum trailer and I think Ford has incorporated more than adequate design to pull my trailer with ease, stability and safely. After weighing my rig, it meets all specs and and I am happy with that. Duallies are for heavier trailers like a DRV and New Horizons and etc. So dually crowd lets see some facts to support your assertion and you are not providing information to prospective buyers other than "I own a dually and it is more stable"

 

[mattpopp]

It's the side to side movement. When you pass a Semi or a gust of wind hits you. Or if you find yourself on a bad patch of road and it causes the trailer to sway. This stuff causes your rear end of your pickup to sway side to side. That sway can be from the tires flexing. Add two more wheels to the rear and that reduces the tire flex or side wall flexing. However you want to call it.

But that's a known fact. I figured most people knew that being that most people tow on here.

 

[mattpopp]

Has nothing to do with a pickup but rather tires.

 

[dave10a]

It's the side to side movement. When you pass a Semi or a gust of wind hits you. Or if you find yourself on a bad patch of road and it causes the trailer to sway. This stuff causes your rear end of your pickup to sway side to side. That sway can be from the tires flexing. Add two more wheels to the rear and that reduces the tire flex or side wall flexing. However you want to call it.

But that's a known fact. I figured most people knew that being that most people tow on here.

Never had a problem like you describe. I have 20inch tires with large side walls properly inflated for the load A lot of theories are coming out of the wood work on this forum. If the dually is more stable then that is just fine, but I have not experience a problem with stability-- So I'll stick with SRW properly set up with the same sway bars as duallies have.

 

[jimtoo]

OK.. Everybody step back,, take a deep breath and relax...

Jim M

 

[doxiecouple]

As the originator of the topic, let me say I value each entry, opinion and response here. I have towed two different fivers over many terrains, covering a lot of miles with a 2006 Ford F-250 FX4 Super Duty SWD. I towed all up and down I-40 both directions around Ashville, NC, down and up the I-24 grade from Chattanooga to Nashville, over the Blue Ridge, Alleghenys,and the list goes on. Yep, even crossed the Continental Divide towing a 13k dry weight fiver. My wife drove in several severe wind storms that came up suddenly until we could safely stop and of course semis passed us regularly, with much less sway than we experienced in a Class A. And BTW, my "exhaust brake" worked very well when I used it on down grades. All equipment was stock with no modifications. My research shows that Ford has made great improvements since then in several areas. Again, thank you all for your feedback. The wife and I eagerly anticipate delivery of the San Antonio and believe the 2012 Super Duty SRW will serve us well. F-250 or F-350? Not there yet but with the FX4 Package, either should suffice.

 

[Zoomzoommo]

The 3110 that I'm picking up after the first of the year has a GVWR of 15,500. The 2012 Ford Super Duty brochure list the maximum loaded trailer weight rating for fifth wheel towing at 15,700 for an F350 SRW 4x4 CC. While I do understand that trucks are engineered with safety margins, I would personally be uncomfortable (as a newbie) without a DRW and it's greater 21,700 limit. And while I was researching weights several months ago, I seem to recall bumping up close to the GCVWR on a SRW. That being said, if you are under the legal limits with the SRW, it's a matter of personal preference.

On the matter of braking, I've had a lot of track time on road courses in cars and on motorcycles. You can't increase braking force by increasing contact patch (Google 'friction circle' and read the related laws of physics). The front brakes do most of the work, and if you want to stop over a shorter difference, better brake pads and stickier rubber are the answers. DRW won't get you stopped any faster than SRW.

However, DRW should increase rear stability, as the greater contact patch spreads forces that cause the suspension to become unsettled (road inperfections, sudden weight shifts, wind gusts, etc.). So I'd argue that DRW should provide better rear stability under heavy braking...but it doesn't decrease the stopping distance.

 

[MTPockets]

I always stick with the numbers - not opinion.... Your 5vr has weights, GVWR and dry weight, the TV manufacturers publish the capacities.... Stick with these and enjoy.....

Click http://www.ford.com/trucks/superduty/specifications/payload/

 

[dave10a]

I forgot to mention that my previous rig, a class A diesel pusher rated at 40,000 gvw was as stable as my present rig in cross winds and passing 18 wheelers. I think my present rig is a tad more stable is those situations(speculation on my part), but my truck rides a little rougher because of the springs vs air bags. It had 22.5 inch tires with large side walls I wanted a truck that would fit in my garage, do well on off-road situations and snow and easy to drive when not towing in city parking and narrow streets. My experience when I was working with forest service in the summer while going to college proved that duallies are great for heavy loads, but not off road, mud and snow. The SRW trucks did much better in those situations. I am not sure why but I suspect coefficient of friction has a lot to do with it because of more weight on a smaller surface area. We experimented with larger/wider treads on the rear wheels and found the stock tires on SRW were the best for 4X4 and 2X4 with posi-traction/locking rear end. I have the minimum truck for my application and does very well. I even filled the grey/black and fresh water tanks to see how the TV reacted when over-loaded with combined weight and Ok for all axles and found that the only thing that changed was slower acceleration and takes a little longer to stop neither of which were a beyond my driving skills.

 

[caissiel]

I have to advise that with stock suspensiion on the SRWs the bottom overload plates will be loaded and it will ride like a buckboard. I added on short ply to lift the springs off it.
In addition the main ply will bend to much close to tie front pin and will loosen the stability. I added one ply to the main ply and the truck ride has been solid and smooth hitched and unhitched. Air bags allows the springs to be unloaded and affect stability and chucking.
20" tires can carry the load quit well. But my 17" tires are still very stable and smooth with our 3500RL BC in tow. But they are loaded and 18 or 20 inches tires would be better for LM.

Sent from my SPH-M910 using Tapatalk 2

 

[mattpopp]

Air bags allows the springs to be unloaded and affect stability and chucking.
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You will be surprised at the number of people that don't understand that comment. Air bags are great for gooseneck trailers but not for tall loads like a Rv