Winterizing Valve Problems

[chasdvorak]

I ran into a couple of problems while winterizing my 2009 BH3580 and was looking for some advice. I think I've had some past issues which I'm hoping to address through some guidance (obtained through the forum) and Spring repairs since I was able to winterize my coach.


The first problem was related to my winterizing valves. I flipped both valve handles to the winterize position and could not get any pressure into the lines. I plugged the hot water drain tank with my index finger and immediately noticed pressure building up in the tank. I checked the valves and it appears that the plastic base on both valves (See Picture 1) was cracked thereby allowing the handle to spin without actually turning the valve mechanism to the winterize position. I was able to turn both of the valves to the winterize position with a small wrench which allowed me to complete the winterizing procedure.


I compared the valve turning tension on the coach valves to a new spare valve and noticed that the coach valves were a little stiffer. I don't think the valves are bad, but I do beleive that the plastic handles became brittle over the past 4 years which caused them to crack. I think the valves would benefit from a little exercise, but I didn't want to chance a workout since I needed to complete the winterizing. I'm wondering if there are any metal valve handles available or any other solutions short of replacing them with the same plastic handles or using the wrench to turn the valves.


I also have had an issue that may be linked to the check valve and/or the winterizing valves. I get hot water through the cold water lines when the city water connection or fresh water pump is not activated. This may be a normal situation since there is a considerable amount of pressure on the hot water tank and I only noticed a single check valve on the top side of the hot water tank. It appears that hot water is blowing back through the cold water line which feeds the hot water tank. Is this normal? Any water line diagrams or advice would be appreciated.


The last issue is linked to my kitchen gray water tank valve which snapped loose when I tried to close it. A quick examination revealed that the cable became unattached from the crimped end of the handle mounting. I was still able to work the valve while holding the cable in its' proper position. I also have a constant leak with my black tank that was temporarily fixed through the use of a twist on valve (See Picture 2). At this point, I'd like to take things apart in the Spring and repair both the gray and black tank valves. I have the basement panels off and it looks like I'd have to work on the valves from the underside of the coach. I'll call Heartland for some parts, but any suggestions on gaining access to the tank/valve would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for the help with these issues.....

 

[traveler44]

Chuck- I would think that the check valve would be on the filler side of the lines so that it would keep the hot water from returning through the cold water line that is supplying the water heater. I would also think that the other line from the water heater would be for the hot water lines going to your faucets. It really sounds to me like something is reversed either at the heater or in the connections between there and the faucets. When I had a bad check valve on my water heater all that happened was that the antifreeze pumped through the heater and out of the drain hole until I changed the check valve. I haven't had any hot water coming out of my cold water faucets yet. I saw a post on here a long time ago where one of the guys figured out how to fix the cable behind the handle. Was that you JIMTOO that posted that? I am sorry to hear that you are still having so many problems with your plumbing. I remember along time ago you had problems with that hot water in the cold water lines-09 or 2010 Il. Rally. Good Luck Tom

 

[danemayer]

The check valve on the water heater is on the outlet, at the top of the water heater. Cold goes in the bottom and hot comes out the top. If it's stuck open, I think you could get some backwards flow, mixing hot water into the cold lines. Get a brass check valve. The plastic ones can crack with age giving you bigger problems.

To get to the black tank valve, you'll probably have to drop the front section of coroplast, at least on the ODS side. If you can work on it without taking the doorside off, it'll be much easier to get it back in place when you're done. If you have to take it off completely, you'll benefit greatly from getting someone to help you. I would expect the kitchen gray valve to be above the rear section of the coroplast. Follow the drain pipe to find the valve.

I don't know about the winterizing handles. My first stop would be the parts dept. of a local dealer and the 2nd stop would be Home Depot to try and find something that would fit.

 

[chasdvorak]

My Bad....I forgot to post the pictures of the cracked valve handles and twist on valve....Here they are:

 

[RoadJunkie]

Hey, Chuck: These valves look like those on my 2010 Bighorn and mine also stripped, at least one of them stripped. I called Heartland parts and gave them my VIN and described the valves. They sent me a replacement (actually I ordered two, knowing the other one would likely need replacing), but while the valve handles were identical to my original, the internal part of the valve was a no-fit. So back to Heartland parts and they told me they no longer use the type of valve that I/we have and Heartland has gone to a plastic valve. I don't know why they didn't tell me that when I purchased the new handles in the first place, but, whatever. So, I asked if they would know who was the original supplier of the valve and they told me Swan Industries. So I talked to "Christie" at Swan and sent her pics of the handle. She wrote back and said the valves were not from them. She did offer to sell me a replacement valve with a metal handle. So, I lost interest in following the thread and didn't want to call Heartland parts again. I mean what for? I've already had two wrong parts sent and misinformation on the valve. By the way, I'm trying to settle a problem between Heartland parts and Flair Industries on our recliner that is all messed up, so I'm a little down on their parts department at the moment.

Chuck, if you do a search you will find some others that have had this problem. Apparently there is some lubrication, that is applied to the valves when new, that is lost over time which causes the valves to become harder to operate. The shoulder of the square slot--3/16", I believe--on the valve handle is too shallow to compensate for the additional load of the now-tighter valve movement and strips the plastic slot. I have not heard of anyone that has found a replacement handle but Heartland Parts will sell you a complete replacement, albeit plastic, valve, of course. I have been using a small wrench to turn the valve, but I will be watching this thread to see if someone has come up with a replacement.

 

[chasdvorak]

Tom,

Thanks for the input and for having a good memory. I thought we fixed the problem at the IL 2009 Rally when the local service tech replaced a sticky check valve that would work at will. Prior to that time, I would receive hot water through the cold side on an intermittent basis while I was under pressure with city water or fresh water tank pump. It was very inconsistent which made it difficult to troubleshoot, but we did find debris that was locking the check valve open. After that, I consistently got hot water flowing through the cold sides when I am off city water or the fresh water tank. It really wasn't a big deal since I controlled it by maintaining the pressure, but I'm at the point where I'm going to do some work so I'm hoping to figure this out. I also swapped out the 3 way valves but that did not resolve the issue.

Dan,

I agree with you regarding the check valve on top of the hot water heater, but what keeps the hot water from working its' way back into the cold water feed line? Is there an internal check valve or appliance design that prevents this from happening? I know there is pressure in the lines based on the amount of time it takes to run the faucets down when they are disconnected from a supply source and I imagine the pressure would increase with the heated water. I also checked my spare 3 way valve and learned that when the valve is in the winterize position, the flow is through the bottom and right fittings. The normal position allows flow through the bottom and left fittings. I'm assuming the 3 way valves are identical and are plumbed to achieve the proper path. I'm thinking my hoses may be improperly connected.

So what I really need is a water line schematic that shows the intended paths through and around the water heater when its' set to the winterize or normal position. I also agree that it is time to replace the plastic check valve and fittings with brass, which would make this an ideal time to confirm everything. The picture below shows the 3 way valve in the winterize position as it would appear from the back side of the UDC.

 

[danemayer]

what keeps the hot water from working its' way back into the cold water feed line? Is there an internal check valve or appliance design that prevents this from happening?

The check valve at the top only allows water to flow in one direction - out of the heater into the hot water lines. If it's working properly, the city water/pump pressure maintains pressure on the cold water inlet, and until you open the hot water faucet, there's nowhere for the hot water to go.

If the check valve is not working, when you open a cold water faucet, the water flow can include water going backward through the checkvalve, allowing hot water to go through the cold water inlet.

I think a malfunctioning bypass valve can also create a back channel for hot water, but I would guess that to be far less likely.

 

[chasdvorak]

Thanks Dan....that makes sense since I don't have the problem until I remove water pressure (either city or fresh water pump) from the system. So at this point, I really don't have a problem when hot water flows back through the cold water lines when there is no water pressure present. I'm assuming that all RV's should respond in this manner but I never noticed it on any of my SOB's....I wasn't really looking for it tho.

 

[chasdvorak]

Additional Info:

I've been doing some work on this issue and had some help from Jim Hutt (57chevyconvt) who replaced his valves with Apollo valves (globalindusrial.com Item# WIB31545). These valves cost $20 each in May 2011 and they have metal handles. Check out the thread at:

//heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/30148-Plastic-Pex-Connector-Failure?p=238544&highlight=#post238544
Valve handle picture.

I also created a diagram of the Winterizing By-Pass system at:

//heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/34659-Winterizing-By-Pass-Diagram
Winterizing by pass Diagram