Your opinion on the need for Surge Protection?

[Bones]

Re: Your opinion?

Friends.

Purchased a 2016 3160EL a short while back.

Would prefer a hard wired surge protector. But with that said...
a) where is the most convenient place to mount a hardwired 50A unit in a 3160EL and,
b) if I go with a post mounted 50A option, what are the ramifications if I use it when only 30A service is available...does it provide the same level of protection (been a long time since I took Electronics 10).

Thanks in advance!

C-Haert

A.) As close to the panel as you can or with the transfer switch if you have a generator.

b.)Absolutely nothing should happen. You are still getting the same 120 volt your camper needs Just only 30 amps. So if you use more you trip the pedestal.

 

[wdk450]

Re: Your opinion?

I think that the biggest danger to the power cord is a poor 30 amp outlet at the RV park power pedestal that is burned up internally due to connections being made/disconnected with the pedestal circuit breaker on. This will cause your 30 amp plug to get blackened metal blades and even melting of the plastic shell. This doesn't seem to happen as much with the 50 amp plugs, but the park pedestal circuit breaker switch should ALWAYS BE OFF when connecting/disconnecting RV power.

 

[JohnD]

Re: Your opinion?

I find it somewhat amusing that some here don't feel the need to protect the power cord as well as the inside of the trailer.

After all . . . if the power cord starts smoking it could burn up the RV . . . especially if you are not there to catch it!

And having the internal surge protector kick off to save the microwave and TV's inside won't matter at that point . . .

 

[danemayer]

Re: Your opinion?

I find it somewhat amusing that some here don't feel the need to protect the power cord as well as the inside of the trailer.

After all . . . if the power cord starts smoking it could burn up the RV . . . especially if you are not there to catch it!

And having the internal surge protector kick off to save the microwave and TV's inside won't matter at that point . . .

John,

If you look at the documents for the Progressive or TRC EMS units, I think you'll find that of the 5 or 6 types of electrical issues that they protect against, those issues aren't likely to result in damage to the shore power cord. And I'm having a hard time imagining a pedestal problem that would lead to the power cord burning down the RV. Another way of saying this is that while you can have damage to your cord, even with an EMS at the pedestal, it's very unlikely to melt down the cord or start a fire.

On the other hand, locating the EMS close to the circuit breaker panel not only protects against problems originating in the campground pedestal, but also protects against problems with how the power cord is connected, loose or damaged connections on the way to the circuit breaker panel, and if you have generator prep, it protects against a problem at the automatic transfer switch. If you have an on-board generator, it would also protect against problems with the generator or related wiring.

The advantage of a portable unit, which is what I use, is 1) it doesn't require work to install, 2) it's easier to take with you when you change trailers.

The advantage of a hard wired unit is 1) once installed, no further action is required to use it, 2) it can't easily be stolen or left behind, 3) depending on how it's located, it can offer more protection than an external unit. And as some people have noted, there are ways to install it that make it easy to later remove the unit and move it to your next trailer.

In my view, the majority of problems are at the pedestal or upstream from the pedestal, and either type of unit will do the job.

 

[SNOKING]

Re: Your opinion?

I find it somewhat amusing that some here don't feel the need to protect the power cord as well as the inside of the trailer.

After all . . . if the power cord starts smoking it could burn up the RV . . . especially if you are not there to catch it!

And having the internal surge protector kick off to save the microwave and TV's inside won't matter at that point . . .

Surge protectors look at the incoming power not the out going. Please explain to me just how the protector at the power pole is going to know what is happen down stream from it. Do you want protection OF or FROM the power cord(including the powered cord reel)?

A hard wired unit should sense voltage issues as a plug at the power pole melts down. I will take mine on a 50A rig as close to the trailer power distribution panel as I can get it. Loss of neutral in a very expensive repair. Friend's MH ran up a 12-14K repair bill, which his insurance company covered, however his was in electrical he!! for quite a while.

Chris

 

[Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn]

Re: Your opinion?

As I'm making my coffee this morning my Progressive Surge protector cut power. I walked over to my inside monitor and checked for the code (E-6)= L1-low Voltage I popped the Voltage up on my PCS control panel (because it's easier to read then the Progressive monitor) It was bouncing between 109 & 111. after a few seconds the Progressive Surge protector reset itself, the park power went back up to 117 and I finish making my coffee. Love this thing
My under standing on the pedestal units you have to go out and reset them manually. And of course you would have to go out to see what the code was.
This is the 2nd park we've been to that this has protected us and our appliances from damage. who know what might happen to them running on low voltage "maybe nothing" but I have the piece of mind knowing everything is protected.

 

[jassson007]

My thing with having a portable vs HW is that when I pull into a park I can check the pedestal before I ever set up or even back into a site. To me it saves a lot of steps if I am having issues but that is just me.

Also on the portable there is no reset or bypass button if you want to bypass it you just unplug it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TravelTiger]

The portable Progressive Industries unit resets itself when something trips the unit, and goes into its 2 minute delay before connecting power again. It will display the current condition, then the previous fault, continuously on the display until the unit is unplugged... So even if you were not there when it cut power, you can see what happened on the display.

I can usually look out our living room window and see our display at the power pole.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JWalker]

My thing with having a portable vs HW is that when I pull into a park I can check the pedestal before I ever set up or even back into a site. To me it saves a lot of steps if I am having issues but that is just me.

Also on the portable there is no reset or bypass button if you want to bypass it you just unplug it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree

The portable Progressive Industries unit resets itself when something trips the unit, and goes into its 2 minute delay before connecting power again. It will display the current condition, then the previous fault, continuously on the display until the unit is unplugged... So even if you were not there when it cut power, you can see what happened on the display.

I can usually look out our living room window and see our display at the power pole.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree

We use the portable Progressive 50amp. Takes a whole 30 seconds to set up. Plug and plug, you're done.

 

[wdk450]

Re: Your opinion?

. . . . . Please explain to me just how the protector at the power pole is going to know what is happen down stream from it.



Chris

Check out Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter

 

[fritzwell]

Re: Your opinion?

Question, the neutral being the return conductor is not protected when using the plug in unit at the pedestal ?
I'm looking at adding one myself, but don't know enough about the differences between the two to pull the trigger.

 

[jnbhobe]

Re: Your opinion?

Mine is hard wired, it's alerted me a couple of times, glad I have it and everything is on the panel where I can see it.

 

[JohnD]

Re: Your opinion?

Please explain to me just how the protector at the power pole is going to know what is happen down stream from it.

And how is the internal surge protector going to keep the surge out of everything before it out to the power post?

By the by . . . I've seen a few smoked out power cords . . .

 

[avvidclif]

Re: Your opinion?

Better a power cord than an RV. Which is cheaper? The post mounted won't protect you from a power cord problem.

 

[JohnD]

Re: Your opinion?

Better a power cord than an RV. Which is cheaper? The post mounted won't protect you from a power cord problem.

Which I think is why I said above that the ultimate protection would be to have both types of protectors.

And a power cord could burn up an RV if not caught right away . . .

And if we are having surge issues inside of the trailers that aren't coming from the power pole . . . then who should we look at for that issue?

 

[jnbhobe]

Re: Your opinion?

I'm not too worried about the power cord, If it gets a short the pedestal will take care of it on 30 or 50 amp.

 

[danemayer]

Re: Your opinion?

And if we are having surge issues inside of the trailers that aren't coming from the power pole . . . then who should we look at for that issue?

It's not so much a surge issue inside of the trailer. The lost neutral or partially lost neutral is the big exposure. A 50 amp connection has 4 wires: L1, L2, Neutral, Ground. If a screw comes loose and you lose L1 or L2, you'll have some outlets and appliances that don't work until you fix it. If you lose the ground connection, you have a safety hazard that comes into play primarily when one of your appliances has a partial failure and is leaking current. But if Neutral is compromised even partially, you can fry your appliances, causing thousands of dollars of damage.

This can occur at or upstream from the pedestal, where the power cord connects to the pedestal, where the power cord connects to the trailer, on the receptacle internal wire connections, if you have a transfer switch, inside the switch, or even at the circuit breaker panel.

An EMS inside, near the circuit breaker panel, protects against lost neutral at all locations except the breaker panel itself.

Lost neutral inside the coach isn't very common, but it does happen. I had a partial loss at my transfer switch. I think Mike Finnegan had a loose connection at the breaker panel. I think TravelTiger had a problem with the power cord at the pedestal. And no doubt there have been a few others I don't remember.

 

[mlpeloquin]

Re: Your opinion?

John,

If you look at the documents for the Progressive or TRC EMS units, I think you'll find that of the 5 or 6 types of electrical issues that they protect against, those issues aren't likely to result in damage to the shore power cord. And I'm having a hard time imagining a pedestal problem that would lead to the power cord burning down the RV. Another way of saying this is that while you can have damage to your cord, even with an EMS at the pedestal, it's very unlikely to melt down the cord or start a fire.

On the other hand, locating the EMS close to the circuit breaker panel not only protects against problems originating in the campground pedestal, but also protects against problems with how the power cord is connected, loose or damaged connections on the way to the circuit breaker panel, and if you have generator prep, it protects against a problem at the automatic transfer switch. If you have an on-board generator, it would also protect against problems with the generator or related wiring.

The advantage of a portable unit, which is what I use, is 1) it doesn't require work to install, 2) it's easier to take with you when you change trailers.

The advantage of a hard wired unit is 1) once installed, no further action is required to use it, 2) it can't easily be stolen or left behind, 3) depending on how it's located, it can offer more protection than an external unit. And as some people have noted, there are ways to install it that make it easy to later remove the unit and move it to your next trailer.

In my view, the majority of problems are at the pedestal or upstream from the pedestal, and either type of unit will do the job.

External unit did not detect the opening neutral in the power real. We now used the external one along with the internally installed Progressive. Get the internal Progressive unit.

 

[jnbhobe]

Re: Your opinion?

I thought the power reel was 12V not 110V.

 

[SNOKING]

Re: Your opinion?

I thought the power reel was 12V not 110V.

The motor that retracts the power cable is 12V, however there are slip rings/brushes that bring in the AC power. That creates a mechanical/electrical point of failure. Chris