Progressive EMS PE-2 What could be the cause?

Today the power went off at our "home" rv park site. After about 2 minutes the power did not come back on, so we went out to check the portable Progressive EMS. It was still flashing the "testing" light, the reading said E-0 but then also PE-2, which is open ground. We disconnected the EMS and looked for any obvious issues. The box itself was warm. The power cord was slightly warm, and one prong of the male end of the cord looks darker than the others. The prongs of the EMS male plug look fine. The receptacle on the EMS looks fine, but has a slightly "hot plastic" smell. The plug into the coach is fine, as it is the new SmartPlug connector we added in February. (cool to the touch and prongs look perfect.)

We had this same scenario (EMS reading E-2) happen 2 weeks ago when we returned from our trip to Fredericksburg and plugged into our home site pedestal. At that time, I thought maybe the plug didn't make a good connection into the EMS box. We unplugged and replugged and all seemed good. The two legs are reading consistently within one volt, and between 117 and 122V depending on the time of day.

Our temps have been in the 100s the past few weeks, so I know all the rvs are demanding a lot of power in the park.

We have a portable SurgeGuard EMS that we carry as a backup, so we plugged that into the park pedestal... it doesn't show any readouts, just lights, and so far it checks out good.

So now I am concerned, could this be a bad shore power cord issue (male end is encased totally in the plastic) or the beginning of my EMS failing? The shore cord was new in February. The EMS is about 3 years old (fulltime use).



Tell us what to look for?

Can you open the case on that portable unit? If yes, check the female receptacle for loose wires or signs of arcing. A call to Progressive might help, too.
Could be your power outage had a surge when it came back on. Or a surge caused the outage.


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I don't dare open it -- will void the warranty according to PI's website. But seems like a call to them would be in order, since there's no evidence of burned anything on the unit right now. (They have pictured of burned sockets, plugs and pigtails on units and state they are not covered.)

More research on PI's website in troubleshooting says E-2, try plugging rv into pedestal at a different location. Could be a pedestal issue. If error code remains, it's a warranty claim. Have to try that tomorrow.


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If I understand how the EMS works, it will only tell you about the park side input and nothing about its output to the trailer. So if it senses a problem, the problem is with the park and not your shore power cord.
If you can, plug it into another pedestal to see what faults, if any, it senses.

TravelTiger said:

I don't dare open it -- will void the warranty according to PI's website. But seems like a call to them would be in order, since there's no evidence of burned anything on the unit right now. (They have pictured of burned sockets, plugs and pigtails on units and state they are not covered.)

More research on PI's website in troubleshooting says E-2, try plugging rv into pedestal at a different location. Could be a pedestal issue. If error code remains, it's a warranty claim. Have to try that tomorrow.


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I had a similar problem several years ago. My EMS is portable so I took it to several sites in a different part of the park and all read good. Had the park manager come out and check my site and he replaced the park's receptacle . All was good after that.
Don

Well, we tried plugging the EMS into other pedestals, and each time it read E0, and after it's testing cycle, allowed power to go through.

I have made a call to Progressive Industries and left a message to see what feedback they can give me. I find it odd that if it were a pedestal problem, why is our backup Surgeguard EMS not alerting us to an Open Ground?

Maybe the Surgeguard is not as good as the Progressive. Here's an idea. Plug one ems into the other then into a pedestal. See if serially they read the same or different

I thought the Surgeguard did not check for as many problems as the Progressive does.

TravelTiger said:

Well, we tried plugging the EMS into other pedestals, and each time it read E0, and after it's testing cycle, allowed power to go through.

I have made a call to Progressive Industries and left a message to see what feedback they can give me. I find it odd that if it were a pedestal problem, why is our backup Surgeguard EMS not alerting us to an Open Ground?

Click to expand...

Are you saying your progressive EMS is working on the other pedestals, but not on yours? One time when I had problems, the first thing the guy did was change on the circuit breaker saying, these things get used like light switches and they really are intended for that and they start to wear. The other thing he did was pull the fifty am outlet and check the wiring. Anyway, my problem turned out to be not with the EMS or pedestal, but was a loose neutral on my busbar. I'm just relaying what the tech told me about why pedestals can go bad. Don't know why your other one isn't picking up on it. May be a sensitivity thing.

Sounds like the pedestal is the most likely suspect. Since you're getting an open ground error, I'd look for loose connections and replace the 50 amp receptacle. Breaker seems less likely to me since it handles the hot wires, but breakers are inexpensive, so changing it while replacing the receptacle and checking for tight connections would be a good idea.

pegmikef said:

Are you saying your progressive EMS is working on the other pedestals, but not on yours? One time when I had problems, the first thing the guy did was change on the circuit breaker saying, these things get used like light switches and they really are intended for that and they start to wear. The other thing he did was pull the fifty am outlet and check the wiring. Anyway, my problem turned out to be not with the EMS or pedestal, but was a loose neutral on my busbar. I'm just relaying what the tech told me about why pedestals can go bad. Don't know why your other one isn't picking up on it. May be a sensitivity thing.

Click to expand...

Mike, the scenario was this: returned from a trip, plugged into our home rv park pedestal, got open ground reading E2. Unplugged, replugged, reads fine, allows power through. Two weeks later, (2 days ago), power goes off. Go out to check pedestal, EMS is trying to restart, says E0 which is ok, with previous error E2. But it won't click the power on. Replace the Progressive with our Surgeguard backup -- y'all are right, it only reads wiring issues, does not give voltage info.

The Surgeguard has 3 green lights, saying the power is "good". If there was an Open Ground, it would show two lights.

We then took the PI EMS to 2 other pedestals and plugged it in, it reads power as good (E0) and opens the circuit.

So can an open ground be periodic on the post? Could a failure in the EMS cause this random error?

To do anything to the pedestal, the owner of the park would have to do so, (probably cutting power to others to work on it), so I need to have correct info and have exhausted other possibilities.


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Erika,

I'd suggest asking the owner to turn off all breakers on the pedestal. Then remove the cover. He can easily and quickly check for loose wire connections on the ground and neutral bus. Take a screwdriver and tighten the screws. He can also easily and quickly check that the hot wires on the 50 amp breaker are tight. He just has to be careful what he touches with the screwdriver as there are hot components inside the pedestal even with the breakers off.

Next, replace the 50 amp receptacle. If there's a bad fit on the ground, you could be intermittently losing ground.

Btw, this is where a non-contact voltage tester is really handy. I'd confirm there's no voltage on any of the wires before putting my hands on the wires.

And don't stand in a puddle of water.

danemayer said:

Erika,

I'd suggest asking the owner to turn off all breakers on the pedestal. Then remove the cover. He can easily and quickly check for loose wire connections on the ground and neutral bus. Take a screwdriver and tighten the screws. He can also easily and quickly check that the hot wires on the 50 amp breaker are tight. He just has to be careful what he touches with the screwdriver as there are hot components inside the pedestal even with the breakers off.

Next, replace the 50 amp receptacle. If there's a bad fit on the ground, you could be intermittently losing ground.

Btw, this is where a non-contact voltage tester is really handy. I'd confirm there's no voltage on any of the wires before putting my hands on the wires.

And don't stand in a puddle of water.

Click to expand...

Thanks Dan, I'll talk to him and show him this post as well.

Trust your ems. It should be a normal maintenance check for the park to check the pedestal. Loose connections can cause intermittent problems.

Have your sprayed you contacts on your connectors and sockets with Deoxit? Heavily oxidized contacts will heat up. And may just be enough resistance that the Progressive EMS shows open in one pedestal and not on another. Next use a multimeter and check the voltage between the two power socket and the return and then to the ground. They should be within a couple of volts. Measure the voltage between the return and ground pins and should be less than two volts.

mlpeloquin said:

Have your sprayed you contacts on your connectors and sockets with Deoxit? Heavily oxidized contacts will heat up. And may just be enough resistance that the Progressive EMS shows open in one pedestal and not on another. Next use a multimeter and check the voltage between the two power socket and the return and then to the ground. They should be within a couple of volts. Measure the voltage between the return and ground pins and should be less than two volts.

Click to expand...

The 3 year old EMS has no oxidation or corrosion on the pins. The 50amp cord did have some on one pin, it was new in February.

We were going to test the outlet but both meters we have don't have probes long enough for the 50amp socket.

Will get the park owner to test/evaluate.


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I agree with Dan. If a wire is just slightly loose on a breaker or receptacle, the act of just plugging in your ems or flipping the circuit breaker could cause it to shift causing the error, then correcting the error.

Well, after discussing with the Park Owner and Progressive, Progressive agreed the PMS could be operating normally, but when I explained the one darkened blade on my cord plug and the fact that the unit read E0 but would not allow power, they suggested I make a warranty claim anyway.

While we used our "backup EMS" Surgegard, we did not have any issues with the pedestal.

To fulfill the warranty claim, Progressive just needed photos of the unit -- they now have disclaimers that a heat-damaged (MELTED) unit is NOT COVERED under their lifetime warranty -- And ours still looked pristine, except for a little dirt. They did not ask for the old unit back, but said we must destroy it. When the new Progressive EMS arrived (a newer model PT-50X), I swapped them out and we have not had any warnings of E-2 since.

TravelTiger said:

Well, after discussing with the Park Owner and Progressive, Progressive agreed the PMS could be operating normally, but when I explained the one darkened blade on my cord plug and the fact that the unit read E0 but would not allow power, they suggested I make a warranty claim anyway.

While we used our "backup EMS" Surgegard, we did not have any issues with the pedestal.

To fulfill the warranty claim, Progressive just needed photos of the unit -- they now have disclaimers that a heat-damaged (MELTED) unit is NOT COVERED under their lifetime warranty -- And ours still looked pristine, except for a little dirt. They did not ask for the old unit back, but said we must destroy it. When the new Progressive EMS arrived (a newer model PT-50X), I swapped them out and we have not had any warnings of E-2 since.

Click to expand...

Must have to do with the type of damage, because when I had to have mine replaced under warranty, I had to send in my old one before they would send me the new one (or refurbished one). Mine was water damage.

pegmikef said:

Must have to do with the type of damage, because when I had to have mine replaced under warranty, I had to send in my old one before they would send me the new one (or refurbished one). Mine was water damage.

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Mike, it could be because they no longer make the PT50C unit that we had. They sent us the new version. It's a little more compact and has the shield over the power plug to protect the cord/plug connection from water.




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