30 Amp to 50 Amp Connection for Generator

[Jim.Allison]

Progressive industries suggest that an EMS should be installed prior to the transfer switch.......


http://www.progressiveindustries.net/faqs.htm

Let me know where I'm mistaken, IMHO the EMS is necessary to check bad pedistal power and prevent minor surge. If your generator is installed properly you should have no concern over the quality of electricity you receive from it..... Of course it is also dependant on whether or not your EMS transfer switch play well together. I cannot understand why you would position your EMS anywhere different than what the manufacturer says to place it. Of course I could be mistaken.

 

[danemayer]

Progressive industries suggest that an EMS should be installed prior to the transfer switch.......


http://www.progressiveindustries.net/faqs.htm

Let me know where I'm mistaken, IMHO the EMS is necessary to check bad pedistal power and prevent minor surge. If your generator is installed properly you should have no concern over the quality of electricity you receive from it..... Of course it is also dependant on whether or not your EMS transfer switch play well together. I cannot understand why you would position your EMS anywhere different than what the manufacturer says to place it. Of course I could be mistaken.

To complete what Progressive says:

Should a Hardwired EMS be installed before or after the transfer switch?

A hardwired EMS should be installed prior to the transfer switch. The reason for this is RV generators already have built-in voltage and frequency protection. If the EMS is installed after the transfer switch, this leaves the transfer switch vulnerable to power problems.

I'm on a different point. I'm not worried about the generator having a problem. I'm worried about the transfer switch having a problem. Like a failure on the neutral connection INSIDE the transfer switch that could fry a lot of expensive appliances. After replacing 4 Progressive Dynamic transfer switches in 2 months; several with problems on the neutral lines, my opinion is that there's plenty of justification to put the EMS after the switch.

Btw, with respect to Progressive's rationale: A transfer switch sells for about $150. How much do appliances cost?

 

[rxbristol]

To complete what Progressive says:


I'm on a different point. I'm not worried about the generator having a problem. I'm worried about the transfer switch having a problem. Like a failure on the neutral connection INSIDE the transfer switch that could fry a lot of expensive appliances. After replacing 4 Progressive Dynamic transfer switches in 2 months; several with problems on the neutral lines, my opinion is that there's plenty of justification to put the EMS after the switch.

Btw, with respect to Progressive's rationale: A transfer switch sells for about $150. How much do appliances cost?

Do you really need a transfer switch? If you turn off pedestal power first and then engage the generator, is a transfer switch necessary? After the first time I damaged a transfer switch because I did a transfer from pedestal to generator under a full load, from then on I shut down all power, started the gen, then turn everything back on.

 

[danemayer]

Do you really need a transfer switch? If you turn off pedestal power first and then engage the generator, is a transfer switch necessary?

One of the common generator usage scenarios is a power failure. If you started the generator, but didn't turn off the pedestal, I think your generator would be back feeding the power system, which could create a safety issue for people working on the power system. Then when power was restored, you would have two 110V hot wires feeding each of your main circuit breakers. Same thing could happen if someone was helping you and flipped the pedestal breaker without your knowledge. And of course the person who buys your rig would probably forget whatever it was you told him about using the generator.

Btw, despite everyone here agreeing in prior threads that it's probably a bad idea to let the transfer switch change inputs under full load, Progressive Dynamics doesn't warn against this.

 

[adam]

I Finally have the generator supply hard wired in the Landmark. Thanks to those with the constructive input. Did a test run this evening and everything worked perfectly. I personally have had great sucess with the portable 50 Amp surge guard by TRC. It is always ahead of the transfer switch, even when we used it on our diesel pusher. Alot of people get surge protection devices confused with true "High End" EMS systems that have the ability to load shed based on power availability. Our last Holiday Rambler product even had a display that would show what appliances were available to us based on power supplied to the coach.

On a related note I removed all of the basement panels to inspect the transfer switch and converter plus other "hidden" items. There was enough spare screws, cable ties and leftover wood down there to build another trailer, needless to say my shop vac earned its keep!

For whatever its worth for those members who have never had a look behind those panels - I did have the opportunity to tie up numerous loose wires, tighten cable connections and regarding the highly discussed transfer switch - well its cover was not secured and the wire locks on the 2 inputs and the single output were not even tightened. Just saying......



Adam.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Cool I experienced the same thing, I sucked up all that stuff and secured everything. I could and I taped all the wire nuts so they would not loosen.

Am I to understand that you are hard wired into your rig through your transfer switch now?

 

[adam]

Jim,

I installed a new larger and more robust junction box and tied directly into the wire that goes to the generator input side of the transfer switch. This will allow me to use my portable TRC surge protector at both the front and rear end of the trailer. I will just have to be diligent in taking all the load off of the trailer before we use our generator. But since its primarily for boondocking or longer trips where shore power would not be available that won't be a issue.

I am now able to store my "front generator" cable on the floor in the forward compartment and it will easily reach our Yamaha generator.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Sound like a good job. Just a note; I think your transfer switch will default to the generator if there is a choice for it to make. So if you are hooked to shore power the default is generator IF it is running. If the generator is NOT running the transfer switch goes to shore power. Check into that. How are the air-conditioners? Are both running like you want?

Don't stop there get some solar!!!!!! I did and I hardly run the generator unless I want air-conditioning. BTW my tax man says that a solar install qualifies you for a tax credit for a %age of your cost. theoretically you can put in a $1000 bucks of solar and get $300 tax credit. So that means inverter, batts, and panels and a solar charger. EVEN in an RV not just your house. Check my photos to see my panels. They are flexible and stick to the roof. No mounting holes in the roof. I have way more than what I need. I paid $186 for each of those off the net, the description is in my signature. My inverter is too big also but the difference between the 2012 and the 3012 was very little but they take the same internal power to invert. The charger is one heck of a charger. The solar charger and the panel will take my batts from 50% to 95% by noon. You can go for days without your generator if you don't need air-conditioning.

WE were in northern New Mexico, we barely needed the generator for air-conditioning, but when we did run the generator we got a battery charge at the same time but either way I have enough AC to run the TV, sound system, and all the little circuit boards that run the water heater and refer when on LP. I can even use the microwave. The install was fairly easy, probably easier than what you did today.

 

[porthole]

I personally have had great sucess with the portable 50 Amp surge guard by TRC. It is always ahead of the transfer switch, even when we used it on our diesel pusher. Alot of people get surge protection devices confused with true "High End" EMS systems that have the ability to load shed based on power availability. Our last Holiday Rambler product even had a display that would show what appliances were available to us based on power supplied to the coach.

There are 3 things being discussed here, basic surge protection Progressive EMS device and an electrical load shedding device. All are different.
Load shedding, until the latest Landmark hit the ground with 3 AC"s wasn't really necessary.

The other two - there is no comparison to what a surge guard device does compared to a Progressive EMS.

Just food for thought for the future.

There is enough history on this forum to justify using a Progressive device, and if using the hardwired version, then installing it after the transfer switch. Because as a few have found out, that switch can fail as well and an open ground or neutral in the switch will not offer coach protection if it is hanging on the pedestal.

Besides, generators can fail as well.

There is no guarantee a generator will stay at it's rated voltage or current, since the actual output is based on the engine supplying the mechanical energy.

Sounds like you got some good options now. I contemplated adding a second AC port before changing over to the power cord reel.

 

[Jim.Allison]

So placing the EMS after the transfer switch, and making it vulnerable to bad pedestal power and catastrophic failure, is prefered over protecting the transfer switch and still being able to use the generator after the event that may have caused the caused the transfer switch to fail. Most generators already have devices that protect your rig from a fault.

It does not make sense. I choose to protect entire rig including the transfer switch, so that I can still use the generator in that circumstance. I guess its personal preference. I just think the EMS is there to protect you from vulnerabilities precipitated from unknown power sources. Bad AC is not likely from generators nor inverters as it is from shore power.

 

[adam]

Sound like a good job. Just a note; I think your transfer switch will default to the generator if there is a choice for it to make. So if you are hooked to shore power the default is generator IF it is running. If the generator is NOT running the transfer switch goes to shore power. Check into that. How are the air-conditioners? Are both running like you want?

Don't stop there get some solar!!!!!! I did and I hardly run the generator unless I want air-conditioning. BTW my tax man says that a solar install qualifies you for a tax credit for a %age of your cost. theoretically you can put in a $1000 bucks of solar and get $300 tax credit. So that means inverter, batts, and panels and a solar charger. EVEN in an RV not just your house. Check my photos to see my panels. They are flexible and stick to the roof. No mounting holes in the roof. I have way more than what I need. I paid $186 for each of those off the net, the description is in my signature. My inverter is too big also but the difference between the 2012 and the 3012 was very little but they take the same internal power to invert. The charger is one heck of a charger. The solar charger and the panel will take my batts from 50% to 95% by noon. You can go for days without your generator if you don't need air-conditioning.

WE were in northern New Mexico, we barely needed the generator for air-conditioning, but when we did run the generator we got a battery charge at the same time but either way I have enough AC to run the TV, sound system, and all the little circuit boards that run the water heater and refer when on LP. I can even use the microwave. The install was fairly easy, probably easier than what you did today.

Thanks Jim,

We want to do the solar set up for sure - to what degree we are not sure. But I will pick your brain when the time comes. Your set up looks great.


Thanks Adam

 

[Jim.Allison]

Thanks Adam, but I will tell you I did not know what the heck I was doing when I started. All my components are compatible, but I have some harmless sizing issues, the system works great though. Sizing is the big secret to an economical solar install, a sharp pencil is a must. When you get ready, my biggest contribution to you, will be to tell you where I wasted money, and a few things I would have done different if I had the opportunity to do it again. All in all, my system is everything that I wanted and I would not go out and buy anything to change what I already have. It is a fairly easy project for those that do not fear it and are used to taking on semi complex task.

Thanks Jim,

We want to do the solar set up for sure - to what degree we are not sure. But I will pick your brain when the time comes. Your set up looks great.


Thanks Adam