The brakes on my 2007 Bighorn with a Prodigy controller will not lock up on any surface I have driven on, pavemement, gravel, dirt, etc., at any speed. I figured thats just the way it was supposed to be. Now I'm not so sure. I haven't run into anything yet, but a sudden slow down of traffic in front of me is an exciting experience. I'm glad I have 4 disc brakes on the TV. I have read this entire discussion, several times and found it very interesting, but I still don't have a clue whether the brakes on my Bighorn are performing as the factory intended or I have another major problem.
Brakes
- Thread starter jbthepickle
- Start date
Well Stated, people need to be accountable. If there brakes are sup-standard then get them fixed to the point they feel safe. At some point insurance companies will weigh in then we will have even more regulations and ways they can avoid paying claims.
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Hardrocker
Member
Federal standards exist for automobile and pickup brakes, but they are not required to stop at DOT stations, so it is unlikely that RVs would have to stop.
I am not sure the majority of RV owners have seriously considered the adequacy of their braking systems.
If I remember correctly, the RVIA 'standards' allow RV manufacturers to self-certify. There is no required, enforceable code.
The attorneys may use the standards in a lawsuit as minimum industry-accepted practice.
Current vehicle abs systems prevent wheel lockup and tire skid. If you lockup the trailer wheels, there is no telling which way the trailer will skid and you have less control with non-rolling wheels. However, like we had to do before abs, you would have to pay attention to how hard you brake to still maintain control.
The attorneys may use the standards in a lawsuit as minimum industry-accepted practice.
Current vehicle abs systems prevent wheel lockup and tire skid. If you lockup the trailer wheels, there is no telling which way the trailer will skid and you have less control with non-rolling wheels. However, like we had to do before abs, you would have to pay attention to how hard you brake to still maintain control.
pegmikef
Well-known member
That's any trailer with a gross weight of 4800 pounds or more. I was pleased that my North Trail passed just fine. I did ride with the inspector and he did in fact do the test!
Here is part 4 of an old(1979) 4 part report of testing done with cars and trailers. Participants included several trailer manufacturers and RVIA. Stopping decleration target was set as .43g or greater. Stopping distance target was as 134 ft from 40mph as maximum.
The report can be a mind-numbing read. Maybe more recent testing can be or has been done for larger rigs.
http://www.edccorp.com/library/TechRefPdfs/EDC-1084.pdf
The report can be a mind-numbing read. Maybe more recent testing can be or has been done for larger rigs.
http://www.edccorp.com/library/TechRefPdfs/EDC-1084.pdf
Hardrocker
Member
The instructions for my brake controller say to set the gain to the point where the trailer will slide its wheels on dry pavement and then reduce the gain slightly. I certainly don't recommend that the trailer brakes actually slide the tires at speed, I just want the braking system to be capable of doing so.
Hardrocker
Member
I had seen this report in my searches. I find it interesting that they considered a combined vehicle stopping deceleration rate of .43g satisfactory. Since tow vehicles can stop with a deceleration rate of .8g or higher, the expectations for the trailer brakes were pretty low. Of course, it all depends on the relative weights of the tow vehicle compared to the towed trailer.
I could not find any studies using current rigs, but they seem overdue.
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Thanks Cookie: I read your post #29 which gives Dexters point of view on why trailer brakes don't lock up. However, my Prodigy instructions state at a setting of 6.0 (max. being 9.0) on a dry level paved surface, "if the trailer wheels lock up, slightly reduce power by adjusting the power knob. If the wheels turn freely, increase power to a point just before wheel lock up." I have adjusted my controller to 9.0 and could not lock up the wheels on gravel. Regular trailer maintenance is performed, not by me, but a repair facility. As I stated, I just assumed that's the way the Bighorn brakes were supposed to function, and that may well be the case, although I am a bit uncomfortable with it. But after reading about a lot of other owners questioning their braking systems, well, I began to question mine again. I'm just looking to establish my comfort level and share my experiences with the forum.
This is exacerbating. This thread is 6-months old and not a single reply from Heartland. As the Factory, I'd get a quicker reply from the government! Heartland, we're talking the brakes, not some blemish on the counter!
The manufacturer of the running gear engineered it to a performance specification. What is this specification? Based on this spec, we, the operators, can access whether our equipment is operating as intended and then operate the equipment within its intended design limits.
This is high risk. Severity on this is high - loss of life is worst case. What is the probability? How many RV accidents occur each year in North American and how many accidents involve braking?
Come on Heartland!
Mouse
The manufacturer of the running gear engineered it to a performance specification. What is this specification? Based on this spec, we, the operators, can access whether our equipment is operating as intended and then operate the equipment within its intended design limits.
This is high risk. Severity on this is high - loss of life is worst case. What is the probability? How many RV accidents occur each year in North American and how many accidents involve braking?
Come on Heartland!
Mouse
This from Dexter:
BRAKES - Why can't I lock and slide my electric brakes?
On an unloaded trailer, you may be able to lock up your brakes if your electric brake controller is supplying full amperage to the brakes. When loaded to capacity, you may not be able to lock your brakes as electric brakes are designed to slow the trailer at a controlled rate, and not designed to lock up the wheels on a fully loaded trailer. Our brakes are designed to meet all applicable safety standards. All of our brakes will perform better after numerous burnish stops to seat the brake linings to the drums.
So the brakes may or may not lock up. It would be good to know the 'applicable safety standards'.
There is a comment in the Prodigy instructions that says lockup or maxmum braking.
BRAKES - Why can't I lock and slide my electric brakes?
On an unloaded trailer, you may be able to lock up your brakes if your electric brake controller is supplying full amperage to the brakes. When loaded to capacity, you may not be able to lock your brakes as electric brakes are designed to slow the trailer at a controlled rate, and not designed to lock up the wheels on a fully loaded trailer. Our brakes are designed to meet all applicable safety standards. All of our brakes will perform better after numerous burnish stops to seat the brake linings to the drums.
So the brakes may or may not lock up. It would be good to know the 'applicable safety standards'.
There is a comment in the Prodigy instructions that says lockup or maxmum braking.
4. Repeat Step (3) until power has been set
to a point just below wheel lock up or at
a sufficient force as to achieve maximum
braking power.to a point just below wheel lock up or at
a sufficient force as to achieve maximum
If you cant lock up any trailer brakes on gravel you are towing a bomb. Get them checked out or upgraded as necessary. We don't leave the driveway without the brakes being checked and set on any of the trailers. The new Ford Computer does make this easier for sure.
I cant remember any trip of any length when we didn't need to slow down in a hurry and I like to know the trailer isn't going to push me. It must stop itself just loaded or empty.
I cant remember any trip of any length when we didn't need to slow down in a hurry and I like to know the trailer isn't going to push me. It must stop itself just loaded or empty.
Hardrocker
Member
Mouse, you are spot on!
The argument that the RV manufacturers don't want our trailers to get out of control and possibly jackknife is interesting. In other words, to prevent us from sliding the tires on our rigs, and possibly losing control, they have provided a mediochre braking system which gradually slows the rig instead of providing meaningful braking. One wonders why the automobile manufacturers didn't think of that instead of anti-lock braking systems.
ChopperBill
Well-known member
Anyone with the new Dexter brakes able to lock them up on gravel? Like I said my ID said that they were the top of the line. I have never been able to lock up my Lippert brakes in any situation. But then again I really cant figure out how sliding trailer tires on gravel is going to stop it. I had a panic situation this winter coming home from AZ and thought I was finished for. Hit the brakes so hard the GMC tires even did some chirping, but I got it stopped with room to spare. So I guess something is working. If Dexter us way to go I don't mind throwing a few more dollars at the brakes if the burnish process doesn't improve things some. I am talking about heavier trailers here.
jnbhobe
Well-known member
I have seen all kinds of problems with electric brakes, Its usually a bad connection or a bad magnet. I was tired of chasing problems and changed my rig over to Disc Brakes and that solved all the intermittent problems. We now run the controller on 6 1/2 or 7 at the max and have very aggressive brakes. But its also a $2K option.
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