Brakes

[wingfoot]

I have a 2005 Ford F350 with a ford factory brake controller. When I manully apply full power on the brake controller lever I can not slide tires in gravel. noteven with a differnt truck. when going 40 mph I can barely feel the brakes pulling me back, when useing brake cntroller manuley. This is my 3rd 5th wheel. I have never had this happen unless the brakes were out of addjustment. they are not out of addjustment?????? Ive had them checked 2 times.

OK, I'm going to try and remember what I did on a very similar situation on my 2005 F250. If I remember correctly, the factory installed Tow package would not come into play until you reached 15 MPH. There was a fix for this, but you will have to contact Ford. This affected people with "slider" hitches, they could not lock up the brakes to facilitate the slider. Hope this helps. Although you state you have had previous 5r's with no problem...Good luck

 

[righttime]

I am also having problems with my brakes. I never was comfortable with them but was told by the dealer that was the way they worked. I am not a handiman but last weekend I measured the voltage on my system. I have 12.6 V at the pin but only 10.2 at the brake. This is a significant loss of power. My son has a Jayco Eagle which is bigger and heavier than mine and his brakes lock. We tried my unit on his F350 and there was no improvement. I am taking my unit to Lippert in October to get 8000 lb axles installed. Hopefully I will be able to get the problem fixed then as we are planning a trip through the Rockies and I want to be able to stop.

 

[TedS]

righttime, it sounds like the size of the wire in the trailer feeding the brakes is too small. I have wondered about in my Bighorn since the brake effort of the trailer brakes does not seem high enough. In other threads, folks have talked about installing a larger wire in the trailer to reduce the voltage drop feeding the brake circuit. You might ask Lippert about that when you visit them. Would be interested in their response.

 

[lwmcguir]

We have 8K axles and brakes. Just came back from the Rockies and was very happy with both the TV and the Coach. No white knuckles coming down at all.

 

[righttime]

I am considering running a 10 guage wire directly from my pin to the brakes and see what happens. I believe the problem is too small a wire.

 

[57chevyconvt]

I just completed changing the std. Lippert brakes to Dexter self-adjusters. When connecting the wiring installed by Heartland, it was smaller in gauge than the wiring on the Dexter brake magnets. I should have checked the wire gauage when performing this job. Likewise, I was having problems with the brakes not locking up. I found two of the four grease seals damaged by whom every assembled the hubs. The damage was identical, therefore allowing grease to migrate to
the hub disk that the magnets adhere to when braking. I hope I have solved the problem. If not, will have to look at running new and larger wiring to the brake assemblies.

 

[righttime]

That is good to hear

 

[letourno]

Our BH3585 has Dexter axles and brakes. Early in our maiden trip the brakes started failing. When the dealer removed the wheels he found 3 wheels that had bearing seals letting go grease in the drums. Dexter rejected the claim (accepted only the cost for the seals witout labor). After the repair - and cleaning the drums and brakes, the brakes still did not work. There was a significant drop in voltage from the connection at the truck (13.5 volts) to the connection at the front axle (9 volts max.). All connectors were changed as the dealer had encountered an issue with these previously. That did not do it... The dealer then proceeded to change all the wiring from frontto brakes, including the silly "speaker wire" that runs inside the axle tubes. Miracle! The voltage held. However, brakes still not working and the truck monitor showing "Wiring fault at trailer". The dealer then changed all magnets, replacing them with larger, heavyduty models. We now have brakes!

The dealer decided to do all this work at his own expense after Dexter had turned down the claim the first time around. I do not know if Dexter (or Heartland) has later accepted the claim. I have advised Heartland of the situation. I hope they recognize that there were similar issues with many units manufactured at thetime they switched from Lippert to Dexter axles, in the fall 2010. Therehas to be a shared responsibility and, more importantly, there has to be a "lessons learnt" exercise to ensure ongoing product quality and customer satisfaction.

 

[Ray LeTourneau]

Great info letourno, Thanks for your input!

 

[Hardrocker]

It has been almost a year since I brought the issue of poor braking performance to light with Heartland, and still my brakes lack stopping power. The local dealer turned me over to Lippert last May after determining that they could not improve the braking performance, and Lippert has never contacted me regarding the issue.

However, poor braking has not affected our use of the camper since we have been parked for over a month. Maybe Heartland does not intend that you actually move the camper, so braking is not all that important.

 

[porthole]

The average trailer brake magnets drw almost 3 amps each. A combined draw of approximately 12 amps dictates the proper grade wiring and good clean connections. 2 things come to mind, like mentioned above, below grade wiring and the use of "scotch loks" by many manufacturers.

Personally, if it was my trailer, I would replace the existing trailer brake wiring with 8 gauge marine rated wire (positive and negative). I'd run the 8 gauge (maybe even 6 gauge) wire from the trailer connector to the axles, then use a proper "bus bar" and run 14 gauge to the individual brakes.

By eliminating the voltage drop up to the axles I would think braking performance would be greatly improved.

And years in the automotive field would dictate to me replacing the shoes if they get grease or oil soaked. You just can't clean all of the lube out of the shoes.

 

[cookie]

Just a quick question, after your dealer turned you over to Lippert, and not having heard from them, have you made a call to Lippert?
If not I would do so. Explain your situation. They may help, or not, but it is worth the time to make a call.
Also, did you read post #88 in this thread. If you get no outside help that is something you might consider doing. I would use #12 wire.

Peace
Dave

 

[Hardrocker]

I have not contacted Lippert to continue this effort to obtain adequate braking but will do so tomorrow.

We did bring the camper back from Texas this spring, and the brakes were wholly inadequate. I can guarantee you that my next camper will have the electric over hydraulic disk brakes!

 

[jnbhobe]

I have not contacted Lippert to continue this effort to obtain adequate braking but will do so tomorrow.

We did bring the camper back from Texas this spring, and the brakes were wholly inadequate. I can guarantee you that my next camper will have the electric over hydraulic disk brakes!

If you want good brakes disc are the only way to go !!

 

[TeJay]

This has been a long thread but I don't know if this was mentioned. I did read that the brakes were checked several times. That's no guarantee that things were checked and fixed correctly. I know, what do you do when several technicians tell you nothing is wrong ??? Well if it still does not work then something is still wrong and they did not do their job. Secondly, you can not clean oil/grease soaked shoes/drums and get enough of the stuff out. Remember brakes work because of the friction created when the shoes and drums rub together. Both surfaces have been compromised with grease and they must be replaced. Even cast iron drums will allow the grease to be absorbed into the surface and you can't get it all out. You've gotten good advise with the amperage draw and wire sizes. That stuff is generally above most shops. They just think wire is wire and it should not matter. Porthole explained that very well. You had several issues that all combined to create your poor braking problem. I also don't know if machining the drums was ever mentioned either. Drums/rotors are always machined when ever shoes/pads are replaced. Some may not agree with me but those surfaces have to mate up with the brake material and it has to be flat. Only proper machining will fix that. Rotors have a minimum thickness and drums have a maximum diameter. When those are exceeded they can't properly absorb and dissipate the generated heat and must be replaced. If they are not then brake material begins to glaze, become smooth and ineffective. They can usually be machined 2-3 times depending on the extent of the distortion that has to be removed.
For what it's worth,.
TeJay

 

[Hardrocker]

I have contacted Lippert, and the rep there suspects that the brakes have likely not been properly burnished.

He suggests that the brakes be adjusted and then apply the brakes while going down the road until they "smoke". This is not the procedure indicated in the owner's manual, which suggests numerous brief applications of trailer brakes, slowing the rig by 20 mph each time.

After challenging him about the difference between the two procedures, he stuck to his recommendation that the brakes could be burnished by applying them until they smoke. Seems a bit drastic to me, but I will give it a try.

 

[jpajax]

If you wish to have no brakes at all go ahead and carry out those ridiculous orders. I can tell you exactly what is going to happen, the shoes are going to get glazed from the heat and will not work at ALL then you will have to replace them. Do not do this, go to a good trailer dealer and have him check the camper and the truck out they must work to gather.

 

[jbeletti]

I know nothing about brakes other than push to stop, but I did find this via Google on burnishing brakes: http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/Art...g_procedures_for_new_brake_pads_or_shoes.aspx

 

[TeJay]

Hardrocker,
You've gotten good info here. You never, never, never do what that Lippert tech said. What jpajax said is absolutely correct. The sight that jbeletti sent you true is also correct. It takes about 200 or more gently stops with time to cool between to completely burnish. That's also why I mentioned in the earlier post that the drums can not be grease or oil soaked and they must be machined so they more closely match the arc of the shoes. If you could get to my area of the country I know we could get your brakes working properly. I would not charge you a dime and it would not cost you an arm and a leg. It's not rocket science but it does require some knowledge and following proper procedures.
TeJay

 

[Hardrocker]

I went out to aggresively burnish my brakes. Early in the process my brake controller indicated "Trailer Electrical Fault", and I wound up with even less braking than before. The Ford manual says that there is either a short to ground or open in the braking circuit. I put the ohm meter between the blue and ground wires. The resistance is only 1.2 ohms, when I believe the spec is 2.8 to 3 ohms. I am now in the process of trying to figure out where the braking wires are shorted.

Does anyone know of a wiring diagram for the camper?

I was surprised how thin the wire on the braking circuit is. It can't be much more than 16 gage.